Transmission service done, but ........
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
AkaSigFreak looked for plug at MB shop
I've seen a WIS for the trans service, with drain the TC as step 6. I guess there is no similar WIS for the W204 with no reference to draining the TC ?? The SA was trying to imply that the note in the box to the right of the draining instructions was a conditional note, saying there were some cases for the WIS where no drain plug existed: "Vehicles with drain screw on torque converter, except on trans'n 722.93"
And finally, how do they refill the TC ??
Thanks Glyn
Last edited by kevink2; Jul 26, 2012 at 12:27 AM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
All I can say is that All 204's are supposed to have a drain plug. Only early versions of 722.9 did not & they were never fitted to 204 ~ they were pre late 203 models like Johns.
To fill the TC they start the car per WIS instruction & the transmission pump immediately fills the coverter requiring further top up of fluid.
To fill the TC they start the car per WIS instruction & the transmission pump immediately fills the coverter requiring further top up of fluid.
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Final notes at our Delaware dealer on 5 quart "standard" trans drain:
> The SA told each of us separatly (after work was done) that the TC may or may not have a drain plug. But in this case, no drain plug. But he, being an ex-tech, told me he would not be surprised if a tech never checked for a TC drain plug.
> Long time parts guy, who supplies the tech's with parts, checked TC's for the W204 and ALL had drain plugs with separate # for the plug. His experience was that that shop NEVER changed the TC oil. He also noted that no tech ever asked him for a new TC drain plug, or sealing washer.
My conclusion is that this dealer's service dept, has decided long ago not to drain the TC, which about equals the trans in oil capacity. From other posts, sounds like other dealers have the same, poor practice.
My suggestion would be to check the 2 WIS proceedures with illustrations, trans drain and TC drain, and then witness the search for the drain plug, per step 6, at the MB shop.
Links from Glyn:
W204-722.9-automatic_transmission_-_oil_and_filter_change.pdf
W204-drain-transmission's-torque-converter
.
> The SA told each of us separatly (after work was done) that the TC may or may not have a drain plug. But in this case, no drain plug. But he, being an ex-tech, told me he would not be surprised if a tech never checked for a TC drain plug.
> Long time parts guy, who supplies the tech's with parts, checked TC's for the W204 and ALL had drain plugs with separate # for the plug. His experience was that that shop NEVER changed the TC oil. He also noted that no tech ever asked him for a new TC drain plug, or sealing washer.
My conclusion is that this dealer's service dept, has decided long ago not to drain the TC, which about equals the trans in oil capacity. From other posts, sounds like other dealers have the same, poor practice.
My suggestion would be to check the 2 WIS proceedures with illustrations, trans drain and TC drain, and then witness the search for the drain plug, per step 6, at the MB shop.
Links from Glyn:
W204-722.9-automatic_transmission_-_oil_and_filter_change.pdf
W204-drain-transmission's-torque-converter
.
Last edited by kevink2; Jul 28, 2012 at 07:45 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I have just received my first PM from an owner of a 2012 where the dealer did a half change & not the TC AND USED THE OLD 236.14 FLUID instead of the new blue 236.15 fluid for the 722.9 Plus transmission.
Please watch what your dealers are doing or it could cost you.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-imminent.html
Please watch what your dealers are doing or it could cost you.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-imminent.html
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Has anyone in the US contacted MB about the specified service in the WIS's that detail changing the TC oil, and dealers ignoring it?
www.mbusa.com contact_us overview
.
www.mbusa.com contact_us overview
.
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From: MI
2006 C230; 2012 R350
FWIW, I contacted several dealers in MI (metro Detroit area) recently to inquire about transmission service on my 2006 C230 and was given a wide range of prices from the mid $300's to the mid $500's. All said the job would be done in just a few hours/same day.
I also called the parts departments at each dealership to inquire about ordering the necessary parts to do the service myself and all stocked the filter and gasket, but not all stocked the pan bolts or the guide tube, and not a single one stocked the TC bolt (all said it would be 1-2 days to get this part in).
I can only imagine what actual service these dealers are doing, but it doesn't sound promising that it is the correct service according the WIS.
I have decided to go the DIY route myself...
I also called the parts departments at each dealership to inquire about ordering the necessary parts to do the service myself and all stocked the filter and gasket, but not all stocked the pan bolts or the guide tube, and not a single one stocked the TC bolt (all said it would be 1-2 days to get this part in).
I can only imagine what actual service these dealers are doing, but it doesn't sound promising that it is the correct service according the WIS.
I have decided to go the DIY route myself...
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From: MD
'09 C350
FWIW, I contacted several dealers in MI (metro Detroit area) recently to inquire about transmission service on my 2006 C230 and was given a wide range of prices from the mid $300's to the mid $500's. All said the job would be done in just a few hours/same day.
I also called the parts departments at each dealership to inquire about ordering the necessary parts to do the service myself and all stocked the filter and gasket, but not all stocked the pan bolts or the guide tube, and not a single one stocked the TC bolt (all said it would be 1-2 days to get this part in).
I can only imagine what actual service these dealers are doing, but it doesn't sound promising that it is the correct service according the WIS.
I have decided to go the DIY route myself...
I also called the parts departments at each dealership to inquire about ordering the necessary parts to do the service myself and all stocked the filter and gasket, but not all stocked the pan bolts or the guide tube, and not a single one stocked the TC bolt (all said it would be 1-2 days to get this part in).
I can only imagine what actual service these dealers are doing, but it doesn't sound promising that it is the correct service according the WIS.
I have decided to go the DIY route myself...
hey kevin, how easy was the DIY? when i look at the DIY on the forum, it looks really complicated... I really want to do it myself also but afraid i don't have the tools for it, thus i have to resort to the dealership... any help or advice be great
thanks!
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
FWIW, I contacted several dealers in MI (metro Detroit area) recently to inquire about transmission service on my 2006 C230 and was given a wide range of prices from the mid $300's to the mid $500's. All said the job would be done in just a few hours/same day.
I also called the parts departments at each dealership to inquire about ordering the necessary parts to do the service myself and all stocked the filter and gasket, but not all stocked the pan bolts or the guide tube, and not a single one stocked the TC bolt (all said it would be 1-2 days to get this part in).
I can only imagine what actual service these dealers are doing, but it doesn't sound promising that it is the correct service according the WIS.
I have decided to go the DIY route myself...
I also called the parts departments at each dealership to inquire about ordering the necessary parts to do the service myself and all stocked the filter and gasket, but not all stocked the pan bolts or the guide tube, and not a single one stocked the TC bolt (all said it would be 1-2 days to get this part in).
I can only imagine what actual service these dealers are doing, but it doesn't sound promising that it is the correct service according the WIS.
I have decided to go the DIY route myself...
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From: Carribean
c230k'05-e300'10(Sold)
unless of course you want to use Amsoil....
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c350 (soon)
I have a question regarding this. I have yet to call my dealership as i want to get as much possible out of this thread so i know what i'm talking about when i approach them, seeing they only put 5 quarts in mine.
If i bring it back, how do i even know they resolved the issue of draining the TC and what not? They can easily print up an invoice showing the added 4 quarts and call it a day no?
Also, do i tell them to completely flush it out now that the new 5 quarts they put in is contaminated?
Thanks.
If i bring it back, how do i even know they resolved the issue of draining the TC and what not? They can easily print up an invoice showing the added 4 quarts and call it a day no?
Also, do i tell them to completely flush it out now that the new 5 quarts they put in is contaminated?
Thanks.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
I have a question regarding this. I have yet to call my dealership as i want to get as much possible out of this thread so i know what i'm talking about when i approach them, seeing they only put 5 quarts in mine.
If i bring it back, how do i even know they resolved the issue of draining the TC and what not? They can easily print up an invoice showing the added 4 quarts and call it a day no?
Also, do i tell them to completely flush it out now that the new 5 quarts they put in is contaminated?
Thanks.
If i bring it back, how do i even know they resolved the issue of draining the TC and what not? They can easily print up an invoice showing the added 4 quarts and call it a day no?
Also, do i tell them to completely flush it out now that the new 5 quarts they put in is contaminated?
Thanks.
1) bring your car to a reputable car sevice shop. Supply them with copies of the two WIS documents (mechanic instructions) that I posted links to in a prior post.
Then have them drive it onto a lift, and with trans in neutral and ign off (wheels blocked), pull off the bottom plastic cover pieces, and remove the plastic/rubber cover from the lower bell housing (WIS Pic). Then use a socket wrench to turn the engine over slowly, while you are looking with a mechanic for the drain plug on the TC as it rotates around (2nd WIS pic). When you find it, have mech circle it with typical big yellow shop crayon. Get mech to state plug is there on invoice.
--------------------------------------
This method will cost some more money, but is the less stressfull way of doing it. So you verfy it exists, then with this knowledge, and the MB WIS instructions (item #6), you go back to MB SA and say they must have misread the instructions as this car has a TC drain plug and it should have been drained the 1st time with about 9 Qts total to refill the trans.
2) same as 1) but let MB do the initial work. Either way, YOU need to witness the search for the plug.
.
Last edited by kevink2; Aug 7, 2012 at 01:36 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
And yes the initial 5 quarts is contaminated. Remember that the fluid in the TC is not static. The transmission fluid is constantly circulated at varying speed through the TC to keep it cool.
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From: MI
2006 C230; 2012 R350
I'm a pretty avid DIY'er with a decent set of tools, so it doesn't look like a terribly difficult or complicated job to me, but, as with life, anything can happen...
You should definitely contact Motorwerks in Commerce Township for another quote. This is an outstanding indy shop catering to MB, BMW, and other high end imports. Satish owns it and Bill is the manager...both great guys and their team has done superb work for us. This is a place worth knowing.
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c350 (soon)
Just got off the phone with my dealership. I told him about the WIS and stated how they only put 5 quarts in my car. He stated that my car does not have the TC plug. I pointed him to step 6 on the WIS. He read it, and then stated again my car does not have it. I am bringing it in and he is going to put it on a lift and we are going to take a look for it.
Seemed like a nice guy so we'll see how it goes.
Seemed like a nice guy so we'll see how it goes.
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Good Luck !
Last edited by kevink2; Aug 9, 2012 at 06:56 PM.
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From: Southeast
2008 C300 Sport, RWD, US
Just got off the phone with my dealership. I told him about the WIS and stated how they only put 5 quarts in my car. He stated that my car does not have the TC plug. I pointed him to step 6 on the WIS. He read it, and then stated again my car does not have it. I am bringing it in and he is going to put it on a lift and we are going to take a look for it.
Seemed like a nice guy so we'll see how it goes.
Seemed like a nice guy so we'll see how it goes.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,331
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Has anyone in the US contacted MB about the specified service in the WIS's that detail changing the TC oil, and dealers ignoring it?
www.mbusa.com contact_us overview
.
www.mbusa.com contact_us overview
.
"... I had contacted their corporate site in U.S. and they finally got back to me today. Their technical guy did confirm I had a drain plug and they should have drained the T.C. "
So feel confident in demanding (and witnessing) a proper transmission + TC drain. This has been a huge, ~destructive deception pulled off by most of the US dealers. If they refuse to accommodate you, I think it's an easy small claims court win.
.
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c350 (soon)
Excellent ! I'd also bring in the 2nd WIS about the TC drain plug ... good photo based images. Also, on other cars I've found it best to use a socket on the main pulley bolt, to slowly turn the engine over in neutral. And one last suggestion (I promise) : You will be in a negative environment for your cause, so don't be intimidated. Don't let them just use the key to crank the engine.
Good Luck !
Good Luck !
Thanks for the help gents. I will take pics with my phone to post on here as well.
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
'dont let them just use the key to crank the engine'
If they did that, you jerk the position of the TC a bit wildly.
In neutral (wheels chocked) you get small increments of rotation if you fit a proper 1/2" drive socket with the related rachet type 1/2" drive wrench.
.
If they did that, you jerk the position of the TC a bit wildly.
In neutral (wheels chocked) you get small increments of rotation if you fit a proper 1/2" drive socket with the related rachet type 1/2" drive wrench.
.
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E350 Sport/ML350RWD
BTW- I am not intimidated easily either. I'm 6'2, 275 lbs and work in Law Enforcement. Most are not stupid enough to try to intimidate me.
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From: Delaware
2004 Mazda6, 1993 RX7
Originally Posted by KevinK2
... My ex just called MB-USA, and here is part of the response:
"... I had contacted their corporate site in U.S. and they finally got back to me today. Their technical guy did confirm I had a drain plug and they should have drained the T.C. "
So feel confident in demanding (and witnessing) a proper transmission + TC drain. This has been a huge, ~destructive deception pulled off by most of the US dealers ....
"... I had contacted their corporate site in U.S. and they finally got back to me today. Their technical guy did confirm I had a drain plug and they should have drained the T.C. "
So feel confident in demanding (and witnessing) a proper transmission + TC drain. This has been a huge, ~destructive deception pulled off by most of the US dealers ....
AkaSigFreak 2008-C300 ... watched a slow roll and saw no plug. See 3 posts above.
Ben'sBenz 2009-C300 ... another witness Ben'sBenz Post
Given the relatively small number of people that confirmed they had a TC drain plug, vs the two that saw none, I conclude that some W204's came into the US with no TC drain plug. I tend to believe 1st hand observations by those very interested in the results, vs Mercedes theoretical rules.
So I can't really say walk in the shop, and with 100% confidence expect a TC drain to show up.
Thanks to my Ex for her showing the myopic way I had viewed the known information.
.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yeah! ~ I would be fascinated to know the date of manufacture of those two transmissions. As far as I can ascertain no W204 has ever been built in East London, SA without a TC drain. Later W203's like Johnand's had converter drains ~ German built car. If you buy a new TC for a 722.6 today it has a drain.
I would love to understand the history of those 2 cars proven to be without TC drains.
I would love to understand the history of those 2 cars proven to be without TC drains.
