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Yes not good and this is the end result of the decline at AMG and their greed for the bottom line. I believe this is only the second car (SLS) that has been built entirely by AMG. If wrong please correct me. They have done nothing to keep this car the flagship status it deserves to be. This should be the car that every AMG owner wants to have and now they can't sell them.
Again very truthful and valid points by Jrcart. Hopefully things will change, but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW going to a invite only event by my dealer this month to see the new GTR. Should be a fun event and a good chance to see this car in person. If I find out any good info I will pass it on.
Looks like the OP won by steering up emotions of past, current and future owners. Shame on you guys...
Let's try to just stick to facts:
1277 GT sold in 2015 / 735 sold in 2016
211 total for sale on cars.com today or 10% of total sold. 116 new cars which do not count in the total above. It leaves only 95 used or less than 5% of total sold.
6 used cars for sale at less than $120K. Even using the example of JR cart at 116K, this is 80% of MRSP.
45 used cars for sale in between $120$ to $130K. Taking the middle point of $125K and assuming an average MRSP of $145K, that is 86% of MRSP.
The average first year depreciation is 20% per carfax. http://www.carfax.com/guides/buying-...r-depreciation
This shows that the AMG GT is better than the average.
Now a few opinions:
The claim that the car is not selling well is a matter of opinion. Just looking at 911s as a whole, there are 887 2015/2016 911s for sale on cars.com. Production was 9,898 and 5,883 in 15 and 16. That is 6% of total sold versus 10% for GT. If looking at used only, 527 Porsches or 3% versus the 5% for the GT. I will venture to bet that if you were to take only GTS, GT3 and TT (excluded the TTS) which is in the price tier of the GTS, the numbers would be similar (226 for sale) but I do not have access to sales numbers for them.
I think it is pretty common knowledge that AMGs depreciates faster than average cars therefore the AMG GT right now is not the norm and keeps its value better than other AMGs.
Using Jrcart own number of a claimed $20K loss, it equates 14% of an Edition price of $144K. I have friends that bought GT3RS that would love to only take a 14% loss on their car right now after 6 months of ownership...
I believe both Jrcart and the OP have disseminated enough venom on the PL and MBworld about their ownership experience with their GT-S that any educated potential buyer browsing the net will find their rants about the GT-S.
Do not get me wrong, I am not debating that the GT-S they bought did not have issues and I agree I would be POed as well. My issue is that it does not mean that all GTs are POS. I am sure Porsche owners would say the same thing to a GT-3 owner whose engine has failed if he went on Rennlist and bashed the GT3 the way both do with the GT. I am not sure what kind of pleasure both get out of ruining the excitement of potential new owners like AMG17GT and myself.
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Originally Posted by emericr
Looks like the OP won by steering up emotions of past, current and future owners. Shame on you guys...
Let's try to just stick to facts:
1277 GT sold in 2015 / 735 sold in 2016
211 total for sale on cars.com today or 10% of total sold. 116 new cars which do not count in the total above. It leaves only 95 used or less than 5% of total sold.
6 used cars for sale at less than $120K. Even using the example of JR cart at 116K, this is 80% of MRSP.
45 used cars for sale in between $120$ to $130K. Taking the middle point of $125K and assuming an average MRSP of $145K, that is 86% of MRSP.
The average first year depreciation is 20% per carfax. http://www.carfax.com/guides/buying-...r-depreciation
This shows that the AMG GT is better than the average.
Now a few opinions:
The claim that the car is not selling well is a matter of opinion. Just looking at 911s as a whole, there are 887 2015/2016 911s for sale on cars.com. Production was 9,898 and 5,883 in 15 and 16. That is 6% of total sold versus 10% for GT. If looking at used only, 527 Porsches or 3% versus the 5% for the GT. I will venture to bet that if you were to take only GTS, GT3 and TT (excluded the TTS) which is in the price tier of the GTS, the numbers would be similar (226 for sale) but I do not have access to sales numbers for them.
I think it is pretty common knowledge that AMGs depreciates faster than average cars therefore the AMG GT right now is not the norm and keeps its value better than other AMGs.
Using Jrcart own number of a claimed $20K loss, it equates 14% of an Edition price of $144K. I have friends that bought GT3RS that would love to only take a 14% loss on their car right now after 6 months of ownership...
I believe both Jrcart and the OP have disseminated enough venom on the PL and MBworld about their ownership experience with their GT-S that any educated potential buyer browsing the net will find their rants about the GT-S.
Do not get me wrong, I am not debating that the GT-S they bought did not have issues and I agree I would be POed as well. My issue is that it does not mean that all GTs are POS. I am sure Porsche owners would say the same thing to a GT-3 owner whose engine has failed if he went on Rennlist and bashed the GT3 the way both do with the GT. I am not sure what kind of pleasure both get out of ruining the excitement of potential new owners like AMG17GT and myself.
Those are the asking prices, they will all sell for at least 10% less than advertised....and BTW there are now 317 GT's listed on CARS.com. I can appreciate the picture you are trying to paint but using your 2015 sales number of 1255 and ytd 2016 number of 735 I come up with 1990 units sold total of model year 2016 GT-S's. Those numbers tell me sales are down...way down! They sold twice as many GT's between June and Dec 31 of 2015 than they have sold in a nearly 9 month period from Jan 1 through today. My public school education tells me that's a decline of about 40%......Furthermore the 317 listed on Cars.com right now represent about close to 18% of the overall sales to date number, that is a huge number. Especially huge considering of those 317 cars listed for sale about 290 of them ar 2016 models and 2017's are soon to be hitting dealers showroom. I am sure Barack Obama could twist those numbers into something that looks positive like he does with unemployment figures lol but there is really nothing good about those numbers.
...an d there are far more people than just the OP and I complaining about reliability issues with these cars. Do you need me to compile a list of links to threads?
I stand corrected with the total number for sale (i deducted the used number from 211 rather than adding it). You are correct that it is around 310.
Those 211 still do not count as sold models.
Again let's use facts and NOT opinions like you are doing.
There are 100 used GTS (rounding up) or 5% of total production.
Let's take the most coveted Porsche out there lately i.e the 911 GT3RS.
Production to date is 1,100 and there are 54 used ones for sale or about 5% of total production. http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-g...n-numbers.html
Are you going to call the 911GT3RS a slow seller as it appears as many buyers as a % of production are trying to sell their GT3?
Get your emotions out of your poor experience with the GTS and the facts will enlighten you that the GTS is in line with other cars in its category.
I do not need to compile a list but you and the OP are the loudest opponents of the GT.
I am not drinking the coolaid that the GT is better than what it is. I am fully aware it is an attempt by MB to get into the mid 100s sports car business which they had no competition for before the GT.
It does suck that loyal AMG fans like you received sub par cars but it is a risk you take when you want to be the first one around the block to own one. I am sincerely sorry this happened to you as you always have pushed the limit of the cars you buy and all of us benefit from your trials and errors.
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Originally Posted by emericr
I stand corrected with the total number for sale (i deducted the used number from 211 rather than adding it). You are correct that it is around 310.
Those 211 still do not count as sold models.
Again let's use facts and NOT opinions like you are doing.
There are 100 used GTS (rounding up) or 5% of total production.
Let's take the most coveted Porsche out there lately i.e the 911 GT3RS.
Production to date is 1,100 and there are 54 used ones for sale or about 5% of total production. http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-g...n-numbers.html
Are you going to call the 911GT3RS a slow seller as it appears as many buyers as a % of production are trying to sell their GT3?
Get your emotions out of your poor experience with the GTS and the facts will enlighten you that the GTS is in line with other cars in its category.
I do not need to compile a list but you and the OP are the loudest opponents of the GT.
I am not drinking the coolaid that the GT is better than what it is. I am fully aware it is an attempt by MB to get into the mid 100s sports car business which they had no competition for before the GT.
It does suck that loyal AMG fans like you received sub par cars but it is a risk you take when you want to be the first one around the block to own one. I am sincerely sorry this happened to you as you always have pushed the limit of the cars you buy and all of us benefit from your trials and errors.
Okay, let's use facts. Per your very own words MB sold 1255 units in the six month from Jun 2015-Dec 31st 2015(approx. 6 month time frame) and they sold 735 units so far this year(approx. 8.75 month timeframe), that is a net drop in sales of 41.5%....or is my calculator wrong??????????? That's a 41% drop compounded with an extra nearly 3 months of calender time to move those units. Based on your numbers above MB sold 6.89 cars per day(182 days Jun 1 to Dec 31 2015) compared to just 2.88 cars per day from Jan 1- present..... I am not sure what type of business you are in but if my companies numbers were down that much I would be asking why. Take off the rose colored glasses my friend and see reality for what it is
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
...and one last thing, you mention GT3 RS sales, a lot of those are selling for MSRP or higher, both new and used even still over a year after they were released, you can't say the same for the AMG GT-S.
I am going to start calling you Hillary where you only want to use the data that fits your agenda .
Just because the first year of production is more than the second year does not mean that it is not selling well. There is little correlation between the two facts. Come on, you are smarter than that.
Point in check that same GT3RS had about 700 produced/sold the first year and 400 the second year. Does that make it the GT3RS a poor seller. We know the answer. Porsche was extremely successful and presold all the units they wanted to sell and kept the car fairly exclusive.
Obviously, MB tested the waters with the GT-S the first year and it was received with great journalists reviews and mixed feelings from owners with workmanship issues. MB made a choice of producing less GTS in the second year. Maybe it was due to lack of sales or maybe it was due to lack of capacity because they make more monies selling CLA/GLA45. I do not have that answer but the executives at AMG seem to be pretty happy with what their business plan.
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Originally Posted by emericr
I am going to start calling you Hillary where you only want to use the data that fits your agenda .
Just because the first year of production is more than the second year does not mean that it is not selling well. There is little correlation between the two facts. Come on, you are smarter than that.
Point in check that same GT3RS had about 700 produced/sold the first year and 400 the second year. Does that make it the GT3RS a poor seller. We know the answer. Porsche was extremely successful and presold all the units they wanted to sell and kept the car fairly exclusive.
Obviously, MB tested the waters with the GT-S the first year and it was received with great journalists reviews and mixed feelings from owners with workmanship issues. MB made a choice of producing less GTS in the second year. Maybe it was due to lack of sales or maybe it was due to lack of capacity because they make more monies selling CLA/GLA45. I do not have that answer but the executives at AMG seem to be pretty happy with what their business plan.
LMFAOROF
I just proved with the GT3RS that less production does not mean sales failure and all you have left is emojis...
Not sure what kind of business you are in but production amount is not an absolute indicator of sales success. Nice try.
I am in manufacturing and I can assure you with certainty that there are plenty of products that we make and production quantity increases from year to year has little to do customer approval or success.
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Originally Posted by emericr
LMFAOROF
I just proved with the GT3RS that less production does not mean sales failure and all you have left is emojis...
Not sure what kind of business you are in but production amount is not an absolute indicator of sales success. Nice try.
I am in manufacturing and I can assure you with certainty that there are plenty of products that we make and production quantity increases from year to year has little to do customer approval or success.
Enjoy your 2017 GT, I just pray to god you are not paying sticker price for it.....
LMFAOROF
I just proved with the GT3RS that less production does not mean sales failure and all you have left is emojis...
Not sure what kind of business you are in but production amount is not an absolute indicator of sales success. Nice try.
I am in manufacturing and I can assure you with certainty that there are plenty of products that we make and production quantity increases from year to year has little to do customer approval or success.
Out here Monterey car show I literally have seen dozens of gt3s and 2 GTS.
Going to see GTR Later and getting a walk thru by MB South. I'll take some pics
...and one last thing, you mention GT3 RS sales, a lot of those are selling for MSRP or higher, both new and used even still over a year after they were released, you can't say the same for the AMG GT-S.
With all due respect to everyone, I fully agree with JRCART. What you see being sold in the secondary market for the 991 GT3RS are primarily dealers, secondary are owners who have the same goal as the dealers and that is to make money and capitalize on the successful model 991 GT3RS.
Porsche is a very smart car manufacturer. They will not disgrace the GT series line by overproducing. They Porsche are for the preservation of the Porsche GT series line. They also "LISTEN" to their core customers more than they do with their board of directors who is after the almighty dollar. That attitude contributes to the mass production and decline in quality as we have seen happen with the AMG GT and the AMG GT-S.
This is totally the opposite of what you see on all varying ads selling the GT and GT-S which is primarily due to defects and customer being dissatisfied with what they bought (e.g. GT, GT-S). You are comparing Golden red delicious apples (GT3RS) with valencia oranges (GT and GT-S) here.
In terms of performance, I relegate the comparison of an AMG GT or the AMG GT-S to that of the Porsche GTS. To compare it (i.e., AMG GT, GT-S) to the 991 GT3 is a complete mismatch and would only embarrass if not humiliate the AMG GT or AMG GT-S.
Yo Paul, Romeo, or Dick, I'm sorry you have too many names. I do know you are a "Journey Out-Law", how have you been Bubba? Hope you are doing well.
Are you excited with your GT or GT-S coming soon? I surely hope you got your car very close to if not invoice pricing. The way the resale of the AMG GT and AMG GT-S is gong on right now, Mercedes Benz really should consider opening a "Fishing Store" as the resale on these GT and GT-S is better than any fishing sinker out there. I wish you the best on your purchase.
Share with us if you have any issues or how great car has been after you take delivery. Best of luck Romeo, Paul, or Dick. Which one should I use?
LOL, engines should not burn any coolant. It's a closed system and you should not experience any loss of coolant in that few miles. The oil burning on the other hand is somewhat acceptable, they high compression motors produce a lot of crank case pressure and thereby have some blow by. I would not be concerned with the oil usage but the low coolant might be a bigger issues like a head gasket or a bad or porous engine block.
All the complaints on these pieces of garbage GT's must be affecting the bottom line because now they are banning and suspending people over on the AMG Private Lounge who have voiced their opinions and made complaints regarding the vehicles dependability and people taking issue with the new "AMG Sport" and "43" line. There are a dozen threads over there that they have been edited or deleted people comments and many more threads that have been locked.
My advise to you get rid of the car while you can, cut your losses because the problems will just keep cropping up, that's what happened with my car, issue after issue after issue until I finally said F it and traded it in and cut my losses.
I'm shocked at this. Anyway, you are right that if too many serious problems pop up, it's perhaps the best to cut the losses and sell the car.
2022 AMG SL63, 2015 Ferrari 458 Spyder, 2021 ALPINA B7
The silent majority
It is amazing how a handful of malcontents can presume to speak for the majority. Worse, they presume that because they can scream the loudest also makes them factually correct.
Meanwhile, I am quite certain that the "silent majority" majority of owners feel extremely positive about their experience with this great car.
I tried to follow some of the mathematical acrobatics, but I clearly do not have the mental capacity, so I needed to find a way to keep it simple.
There are 368 MB dealers in the USA - There are 268 new GTS for sale and 95 used ones of which 6 are private sellers. Approximately 1 per dealer - does that sound like a glut to anyone?
I think not!
Besides, do you prefer a car that you find at every street corner?
I have had this car for 15 months now, it is my daily driver and it has been enjoyable and trouble free motoring - I am sure a feeling shared by the silent majority.
Okay using the number 268 new GTS and 95 are used ones (meaning for sale or resold) that is 35.4% of the total production in the secondary market for the "common reason" the GT and or GT-S in the secondary market are POS's. That is what is contributing to the "Low Quality" marks reflected on J.D. Power survey. Any negative review and or feedback is furnished by owners. That is a very high percentage of dissatisfied customers compared to the competition. Mercedes Benz AMG better get their act together are these GT and GT-S cars are serving a great purpose of "Fishing Weights" as resale is close to the gutter.
To the current owners who are trouble free, consider yourselves very, very lucky and more power to you guys. While the former owners are being accused of "whiners" due to legitimate and valid complaints leading up to Mercedes Benz "Buy Backs" as a matter of fact. Future buyers willing to take the "Big Risk" while quality hasn't improved are no less, well simply put a wuzz.
Way too many issues for this flagship car. If this car is going to be successful quality is going to have to improve! The gtr, after options and taxes will be reaching close to the 200K mark. This car will never sell if these quality issues continue.
I certainly hope that MBAMG isn't taking the attitude that their are owners not having issues so all is well with this car. This will be a huge mistake.
Every time I look at the 2016 Initial Quality Study ratings by J.D. Power it pains my eyes looking at Mercedes Benz falling hard and below Industry Average.
The decline in quality is very evident across the varying models and the defects, and the low quality in the GT and GT-S models holding the crown of "Flagship" in the AMG line up does NOT help neither. Numerous Buy Backs and cars showing up on Autotrader.com, EBay.com, cars.com and other online advertising agencies is proof many previous and existing GT and GT-S are unloading this embarrassing flagship model.
Mercedes Benz AMG, you obviously SUCK. Heighten your awareness that you are losing customers to other German brands. Please get your act together. Resale on the Mercedes Benz AMG brand is by far the worst, and heaviest "Fishing Weight" compared to the other German cars.
If you guys want to see an Outstanding and Great Quality craftsmanship from a German manufacturer, please see and watch this very Cool video.
If you guys have Motor Trend On Demand as I joined just to watch this review. This is what Mercedes Benz AMG should, and must be making in terms of quality and sophistication . Excellent review of the 911R car.
08-17-2016, 10:55 AM
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