Bolaber

I'm pretty sure standard brakes is steel but the yellow color may be misleading.

unconscionable

This is the option list I was sent a few days ago.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pw9znwgy2k...V.1.4.pdf?dl=0

JSwan724

Nope. Steels are standard and you can have either red or yellow.


Carbon Ceramic Brakes (Option B07) have gold calipers and cost $8,950. Only available on the GTS AND GTR.

AtTheGlen

My GT C order includes CCB. I have them on my 911 Turbo S and have no complaints. Never "squeely", great stops both around town and at my personal 9/10, and one source says that the weight saving is 37 pounds. And, yup, I like having cleaner wheels.

The GT R base price on the German M-B website is 139,000 Euro without V.A.T., which is about 25,000 Euro more than the German GT S base of 114,455 Euro. At today's rates (1 Euro = $1.069 - very low historically) that would be $148,591 for the GTR and $122,352 for the GT S which is less than the actual U.S. GT S base of $132,125, i.e. 93% less which would bring the GT R base to $159,775.

This seems low compared to recent GT C estimates of a $160K base. BUT we have more standard content than in Europe where the V.A.T. (19% in Germany) would make a well-optioned car outrageous.

The GT C numbers is 135,000 Euro without V.A.T.) I'm surprised that the difference is only 4,000 Euro between this and the GT R! I've a GT C because I'm coming out of a coupe (GT S Ed1) and I liked the drop top in our '09 SL63.

I'd welcome any news of actual base prices for the GT R and GT C. My order includes a lot of optional equipment. Thanks.

JSwan724

Your "C" may have CC brakes BUT here in the US you're definitely paying $8,950 for them unfortuntely for both of us.

There is no official US MSRP for any of the new models BUT my guess is we may see an announcement by mid next month.

Thank you for the most current currency exchange rates. It does help to form a better MSRP guess.

I agree that there are many differences between the Euro and the US models and the base prices fluctuate accordingly.

We share exact prior AMG history. I came out of a AMG SL63 and into a GTS E1 which will soon be replaced with my GTR.

Best regards

unconscionable

Yeah. I just checked the guide and you're correct about price and CCB. I read the word "composite" and thought it was carbon ceramic. My bad, y'all.

xcfisher

I'll preface this with: to each his own, and everybody has their own preferences and experiences, but....

Have you driven the AMG CCB's? I have owned them on multiple vehicles, including my current GT, and my business partner has them on his C63. They are probably the best feeling brake I have ever put my foot on. Zero squeak, zero fade, absolute best modulation, they last 6x as long, and.... no brake dust. Sure, the stock brakes are just fine, but there is a 100% uncanny difference in how the brakes perform at speed, or when hot. And as an added benefit, it's one of the top compliments and things somebody notices when they spark up a conversation about my car... Furthermore, I (personally) feel it's absolutely silly that the GTR does not come stock with them. On the base car? I get it. Make it an option because of the cost. But on the 'halo', Street-legal version of your race car? To me, the possibility of seeing an optioned E63 wagon pull up next to a GTR and having larger, higher performance brakes makes me fall to the floor laughing.

Say what? I'd love to see that data published somewhere! I spent months tracking down the exact vehicle I wanted, and albeit I purchased new, the no-compromise option it needed to have for me was the CCB's. I had originally toy'd with the idea of buying a used GTS, (and at the time) I skipped over every one that didn't have them. I'd imagine those in the pre-owned market would also prefer all option's, especially better brakes on a "track" car. Never have I ever seen a highline vehicle take a hit for having CCB's. In fact, I laugh about this, because not one wek ago I had this very conversation with one of my best friends who just sold his MP4-12C... He took it to McLaren oF NB, where they consigned (and eventually sold it), last month. They had alot of interest in it - but the main reason it did not go as quickly (and ultimately for less money) was that it was missing the brakes. Call the GM (Pietro) and ask him!

GTR3693

Unfortunately, the performance advantage, or disadvantage, of ceramic vs iron brakes is not widely understood.

Whenever this subject comes up, I always point people to the braking test EVO magazine did comparing exactly the same F-type Jaguars, one with iron brakes and one with ceramics. The test involved doing 20 consecutive crash stops from 100 mph, which is hardly real world or indeed track world, but valid nonetheless to test ultimate performance.

In summary:
- iron brakes typically stop shorter than ceramics in "normal operating temperatures"
- it took 14 consecutive crash stops before the ceramic brakes started to show any consistent performance advantage
- once you are into ABS, it doesn't matter if you have iron or ceramic brakes because by then it's all about the tyres.

Indeed, the UK website CarWow recently did a brake test between a BMW M4 with ceramics, an Alfa Guilia Q4 with ceramics and MB AMG C63 with iron brakes. The MB stopped marginally shorter.

So in day to day driving, ceramic brakes give you no advantage only clean wheels and less unsprung weight which you really will not notice.

unconscionable

The GT3 doesn't have them standard. RS I'm not sure, but pretty sure it's an option. MB is just following the leader by making them an expensive option that everyone will pony up for.

I have CCBs on my F type. They do squeal and are difficult to modulate. They basically feel like they're never up to temperature which is sort of the point of CCBs. But that's Jaguar. No idea what AMG or Porsche does.

GTR3693

I have a 991.1 GT3 with a .2 on the way. Iron brakes on both which are standard. I track my cars (Spa, Zolder, Leipzig, etc). On any given track day, you always see a lot of Porsches and they all run iron brakes. I have only ever seen one AMG GT on track.

Serious track junkies like me would never think of running ceramics simply because of the scary replacement cost. If you run a racing team with a big budget, sure, use ceramics, but I can go out and do 20 laps of Spa at full tilt in my GT3 with no braking degradation. The tyres are the first to go.

So if you never hit the track, iron brakes will stop you in a shorter distance in an emergency brake situation under normal operating conditions. If you do hit the track, then iron brakes will do the job at a far less cost.

GTR3693

Yes, that is the fundamental problem with CCBs, they need temperature to work properly. When driving the streets, you never get enough temperature into them and that's why iron brakes will stop you sooner when cold.

unconscionable

Really excellent insight. Only real benefit then is less weight but totally not worth it.

I'm also getting the new GT3. You saved me $9k.

WhiteBlack

Most 991 GT3/RS I see on track in Europe have ceramics, including my own. I think what you say is true of 997 but the ceramics on 991 are much better.

In my opinion there's a clear performance advantage with the 991 ceramics, you just have to be using the car hard to find it.

I've specced ceramics on my GTR, my only concern is that I've no experience with MB ceramics.

GTR3693

Not sure what tracks you are going to but in all my trips to Portimao, Spa, Zolder, Nurburing, etc, including numerous Porsche club events with up to 100 Pcars present you have to look really, really hard to find a car with ceramics.

Not one GT3 or GT3 RS owner I know has ceramics.

Also, as another data point, when you go out to Leipzig for the Porsche training courses, or to Spa for the Porsche Masters course, all the instructors cars run iron brakes.

WhiteBlack

Most of the track time I see is in the UK. The one 991 GT3RS I know with steels is a German car though, maybe this is a uk specific thing?

The Spa/portimao/zandvoort says I've been on have had uk based TDOs so cars from here are more common but we see plenty of locals as well.

JSwan724

Speaking as the OP, all this stuff is way off the original topic.

You guys need to go start a Porsche thread somewhere.


Thanks

GTR3693

Agree that the chat above is a bit Porsche biased but that's because you rarely ever see an AMG GTS on the track so its a bit hard to have a discussion about the track performance of CCBs without mentioning Porsche. Although I hope to change that when I get my GTR which I have ordered primarily to track alongside my GT3. Indeed if I do not start seeing GTRs on track, it will be very disappointing as it will tell me that the majority of people have not bought the car for its intended purpose.

WhiteBlack

Now that's something we can agree on

ljm301

Agreed