kumizi

I don't on my GTS but I've heard if they're high quality 200 cell cats, you should be ok ~90% of the time.

AMG 17GT

Believe they claim 150 hp/torque on factory GT tune. Big difference for sure.

BenzGTR

It only gained 56 ft/lbs of torque?

What aero are you having installed?

kumizi

probably close to 120 on a GT

I know a GTS dynos 480ish stock and 535-545 with a tune on a dynojet.

Desteny

RT offers 2 years of warranty on this upgrade(in EU), so they need to limit torque to protect the car. It should be limited at 850nm. My local tuner said would be easy enough to get 900-1000nm with custom soft, even with stock turbos, but I still decided to go with Renntech route.

Renntech finally started producing their new aero pack in May 2019 and I was one of the first ones in EU to get it, was shipped from US. They use to have it in US site, but some why they have deleted it. Probably out of stock.
https://blog.dupontregistry.com/spon...arques-monaco/

Orcbolg

I'm sure you're aware of this, but that 2 year warranty is on Renntech's parts ONLY, your factory powertrain warranty is completely void, and RT isn't warrantying your powertrain either.

Desteny

That's not entirely true.

Their warranty clearly states:
In case the installation of a RENNtech-Tuning or a defect of a RENNtech-Tuning causes consequential damage to the
driving mechanism, gear transmission, cardan shaft, rear axle differential driving shaft of the respective vehicle, or in
case the installation of a RENNtech-Performance Kit for MB Diesel motors and motors running on petrol or a defect
of parts belonging to the RENNtech Performance Kit causes consequential damage to the driving mechanism of the
respective car, RENNtech shall be liable for any such damage with regard to the aforementioned vehicle parts subject
to the following provisions.

As I understand, they are liable when their product causes damage or failure, but NOT liable when it's merc's own failure, in that case MB will fix the damage. There is a law in some EU countries, that tuning parts do not always void factory warranty, unless the part is the reason of failure. Obviously, there is a thin line and it depends on dealer and your luck.

But end of day, if something nasty happens, I am ready to fix it from my own pocket. Not really counting on Renntech.

Orcbolg

Good approach, because I'd hate to see how far someone would have to take it in court, before inevitably realizing that they are going to have to pay out of pocket anyways, for ALL but the absolute most obvious reasons.

Anytime you have major and expensive powertrain work done under factory warranty, expect that MB will point to any power enhancing aftermarket mods to absolve themselves from paying to fix it, especially when you're talking about new turbos, etc.



I actually looked into buying a Renntech stage 2 GTS early on, and sat with the dealer for far too long, while they swore up and down that because it was done by Renntech, the warranty was still 100% solid, and that even if it wasn't RT had their own warranty. We went as far as to conference call RT, clarify that the sales guy and his manager were dead wrong, and then contacted 2x MB dealerships that were RT friendly, for clarification (off the record) that the in the event of any powertrain failure, it would probably cost me more to fight MB to get them to pay for the repairs, than the car was worth.



So I just wanted to clarify for anyone who stumbles upon this thread in the future, that if you mod it, especially when you start upgrading turbos, mentally prepare yourself to absorb the repair costs of any and all powertrain related issues.

AMG 17GT

Problem I have with Tune liability Is that Mercedes Benz plays big games themselves with their own factory tunes and the internals of the engine and transmission are exactly the same. Except of course for the larger turbos in the E 63S and the sequential Turbos in the GTR.

So how could Benz say the increased performance caused a mechanical failure when they themselves have the upgraded tunes available on different model nomenclature i.e. GT GTS etc.

Orcbolg

Agreed completely, and I think it would grand if someone, with far more resources than I have, would validate that in court for the rest of us.

thebishman

Because they can?

I’ve stated this before, but if you tune your car just go into it with your eyes wide open knowing that should a drivetrain issue arise after a tune is installed, you may have a hell of a time getting MB to pay to correct the issue. Example: you tune the ECU and three months later you experience a DCT or Differential issue. MB could, and perhaps would, state that the aftermarket tune caused the parameters of the OEM component to be exceeded, and refuse to warranty the car. My SA who I’ve known and trusted for years, told me specifically that even though his dealership sells/installs Renntech products, those RT products perhaps causing, (or not) a drivetrain issue with the car means that a defect is not warrantied by MB. Sure you may get MB to repair something that broke in the car as a good faith gesture especially if the dealership goes to ‘bat’ for you, but again there is no obligation for MB to do so. And don’t think that reverting back to an OEM tune prior to taking the car in for an issue will insulate you from a warranty denial. The dealership can easily ‘count’ the number of times the ECU has been re-flashed, and if it doesn’t equate to the number of times that it’s been re-flashed by MB, MB may well ‘explore’ the ECU further.

Vic55 has far more experience than me re: ECU tunes, and I don’t think he’s ever had an issue. That’s because he only ever uses top notch tuners who create a conservative tune that doesn’t overly ‘tax’ the drivetrain, and this is the only way that I’d ever even think about messing around with the ECU. BUT, I’d go into it knowing that regardless of ultimate cause, MB’s legal funds are far greater than mine, so if I tune the car and it breaks, I’d best be prepared to pay to fix it myself.

Bish

Orcbolg

Well said.

BenzGTR

No they only claim 73 ft/lbs for the tune. Not much more either for the turbo upgrade only another 16 ft/lbs for the upgraded turbos compared to the tune.
I've done the tune and have been talking to Renntech about why the turbo upgrade doesn't add much power compared to the awd cars and they said the RWD drivetrain cannot handle the torque.
Look at the 4 door GT which is awd, it jumps to 783hp 798/tq with JUST A TUNE! Almost 200 ft/lbs more than the GTR with a tune. All the AWD cars make WAY more power with just a tune than the RWD cars even WITH the turbo upgrades.
Hartmut will not give us real power in our RWD cars they said the axles will break first then other things

That being said, the dyno graph posted above before and after only shows an increase of 56 ft/lbs

Desteny

My 412kw RS6 jumped to 544kw with just full miltek exhaust and tune along with stock 700Nm (516 lbf⋅ft) to 1050Nm. 2 years of driving and 30k km without any issues. As said before, drivetrain is the reason why RT limits torque on GTR's, if they start breaking heavily, it's not best feedback for them.

Torque increase is not massive, HP increase is also moderate considering they ask about 18k usd for R760 package(old turbos need to be sent back and stock downpipes are pretty much unsellable) + install, as stock downpipes need to be cut off if you want to install RT ones without taking off engine. Turbo's, BOV install was fairly quick. BUT, considering moderate power increase, IMHO, the upgrade is well worth it. Got the car back today, feels different for sure, makes way more sound, yet not hurting ears, feels so much faster in higher speeds and even enjoying the 'swoosh' sound what BOV creates. My biggest concern was the fact, that it can't put the power down at all and wheels would just spin, but even TC set to 6-off position, that wasn't case when speeds got to 40+ mph.

BenzGTR

I'm really on the fence right now doing this. I only track this car at a track that has a sound limit where my Viper's won't pass, so I would have to keep stock exhaust. So I'm guessing doing the turbo upgrade is only going to net me about 60-70hp over the tune only, probably not worth it. What sucks is I only would use this power on track at speed, no drag race runs so the car would handle the bigger power they give the AWD cars, but Hartmut won't do it. What did you pay for everything installed?

Desteny

Sorry for late answer, been travelling and organizing shipping for the GT-R. After tune, I done about 700km, so far so good. I think you will get about 130-140HP after swapping turbos, filters, BOV and ECU tune. Is it worth it for the track? It's worth the extra HP and downforce with bodykit, as it does make car different and the term ''unleashing the hulk'' does fit here. But if you track the car often and push it to limits all the time, I would not do it. For me the car is more promotional, than fully track oriented, I actually drive track just once a month tops, but drifting I do weekly. Total cost in USD: 35686.58, this is with the 20% VAT.

BenzGTR

I'm thinking more like 100-110hp. Yours did 131 and I will be keeping exhaust bone stock.
Did they switch your ECU or use their new plug in one that you can switch back at home?
Your car looks awesome dude!!!!

seeubro

just ordered Eurocharged tune !! cant wait! lets see if i can feel the difference

rbf41000

Interested to hear your input as I am in the midst of deciding who to use.

j4kethedog

TLDR - Tune is good. Actually taking possession was (for me) a huge hassle and left me not wanting to do business with them again.

I have had the Eurocharged tune for about a month. The car definitely picked up a hearty chunk of torque and is noticeably faster in the low to mid rpm range. Overall I am satisfied. Where I'm not is with EC's customer service and overall vibes. They jumped on the sale when I inquired, and were fast to say "we'll have it shipped tomorrow!" I figured since they're so on top of it, I'll pay more for overnight shipping. I noticed on the invoice they had the wrong address, so I corrected that and had them verify it. They shipped it out two days later via ground (not overnight.) I called and complained, and they were happy to refund the shipping costs -- fine. When the tuner arrived, they had shipped it to the wrong address. I had to go porch pirating to find it and luckily found it at a house down the street. Fine. Then in the instructions they say to send them your ECU file and they will send the tune back within 24-48 hours. I sent it in and eagerly waited. 72 hours, 3 emails, and a phone call later, they finally responded and said "uh the tuner is backed up. We will bump your request to the top of the pile." I thought that was odd for a canned tune. Something like five days passed, and I finally got my tune. The whole thing took about two weeks. Like I said, I am satisfied with the tune. My only gripe is that I initially went with EC because it was a canned tune and seemed hassle free (and relatively safe) as opposed to spending the time to meet with a local custom tuner and get something really dialed in. Between the constant need to email them and correct their mistakes, having to walk around my neighborhood to find my package, and their unapologetically slow sending of the tune file itself, I will probably not go back to them if I do downpipes or secondary cat delete, etc.

seeubro

Thanks for the info! I just sent my stock ecu file to them now Im just waiting for for the tune now hopefully i can get this soon !

seeubro

Yes i will let you know! Just sent stock ecu file to them. Just waiting for new tune.