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Hard track use upgrades

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Hard track use upgrades

 
Old 04-12-2018, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin amg View Post
The AMG track cars were all running "Continental tires".. and I gotta say they did grip..

If they're Conti 'Street' tyres well they suck compared to a SC2; but they are much cheaper to replace, so there's that.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:54 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post


Its been reported that GTR chassis was significantly stiffened and spring rate reduced. In addition, shock rate increased in sport modes. That was what my impression was when driving GTR. Much more compliant Car over abrupt surfaces and less bounce.
Well then I guess the head AMG tech guy I spoke with at the track must have gotten it all wrong..
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
If they're Conti 'Street' tyres well they suck compared to a SC2; but they are much cheaper to replace, so there's that.
I run SC2 but AMG chose.. http://www.continentaltire.com/news/amg-driving-academy I guess they know something we don't..
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin amg View Post
Well then I guess the head AMG tech guy I spoke with at the track must have gotten it all wrong..
Frankly, I don’t think techs at academy know much about product development. They are more track guys.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post


Frankly, I dont think techs at academy know much about product development. They are more track guys.
So where do ya think AMG product development comes from if not the AMG track guys ?
Maybe some 300lb guy in his mother's basement ?
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin amg View Post
So where do ya think AMG product development comes from if not the AMG track guys ?
Maybe some 300lb guy in his mother's basement ?
Maybe engineers in Affalterbach have something to do with the process.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post


Maybe engineers in Affalterbach have something to do with the process.
And engineers get their feed back from racers..
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by descartesfool View Post
Info on Michelin PSC2 tires for track use:

Michelin Stuff
:
I've seen that information before. Accepted optimal pressures for GT3 fall outside of that range ie 30-33psi.

I've been messing about with pressures around 33psi for the Cup2s purely on the basis that the heavier GTR will need a little bit more pressure than the GT3. Car seems to handle very well but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's done something more scientific ie a pyrometer.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ronin amg View Post
The AMG track cars were all running "Continental tires".. and I gotta say they did grip..
Continental do not produce any rear tyres that will fit the GTR (well to my knowledge at least).

If the pro-driver wasn't making any steering corrections while on track then he wasn't trying!
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by WhiteBlack View Post
I've seen that information before. Accepted optimal pressures for GT3 fall outside of that range ie 30-33psi.

I've been messing about with pressures around 33psi for the Cup2s purely on the basis that the heavier GTR will need a little bit more pressure than the GT3. Car seems to handle very well but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's done something more scientific ie a pyrometer.
Im not sure whether you have the normal SC2s on your car or the ZPs, but at the track Ill be starting with 26 psi on the left and 25 psi on the right side; (my local track is counter-clockwise with predominantly left turns). This should get my SC2s to around 32/33 hot, which is where the ZPs ended up on my 15 Z06/7.

Just FYI.

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Old 04-13-2018, 11:38 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post


Im not sure whether you have the normal SC2s on your car or the ZPs, but at the track Ill be starting with 26 psi on the left and 25 psi on the right side; (my local track is counter-clockwise with predominantly left turns). This should get my SC2s to around 32/33 hot, which is where the ZPs ended up on my 15 Z06/7.

Just FYI.

Bish
No ZP tyre's here, I cant see the point and they were not available as OE. I have to lose around 10psi to maintain 33psi all round at most tracks. GTR works those tyres!
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteBlack View Post
Continental do not produce any rear tyres that will fit the GTR (well to my knowledge at least).

If the pro-driver wasn't making any steering corrections while on track then he wasn't trying!
Yeah sure...or maybe he knew how to position the car and the track because we all know you were in the passenger seat .
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:39 PM
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Steel rotor guys need 2-piece rotor upgrade from racing brake as well as SS brake line upgrade with Castrol SRF and a more aggressive pad compound. You actually cha make steels brake harder than CCBs if you know what to do exactly, most race teams run steels and they will make your eyeballs pop out so its more an issues of components than actual brake rotor material
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ML63 AMG View Post
Steel rotor guys need 2-piece rotor upgrade from racing brake as well as SS brake line upgrade with Castrol SRF and a more aggressive pad compound. You actually cha make steels brake harder than CCBs if you know what to do exactly, most race teams run steels and they will make your eyeballs pop out so its more an issues of components than actual brake rotor material
Most race teams run steels; (its actually Iron btw) for one reason only, and thats because the rules of their series mandate it to be so.

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Old 04-14-2018, 03:07 PM
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No, it's also because they are cheaper to race and last longer. They also can outperform any CCB. You have never actually been in a real race car at speed with a professional race car driver if you think otherwise.

From the factory the GTS comes with soft components meant for a luxury car. A serious brake pad with stainless steel lines and Castro SRF will eliminate 80-90% of fade (if not all of it) on a steel rotor. The 2-piece rotors are more about reducing unsprung rotational inertia making it much easier for the brakes to do their job because inertia dictates the maximum rate of accel / decal of any rotor.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:35 PM
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1: again they aren’t “steel”, non CCM rotors are made of cast iron. If you’re going to try and educate forum members about their brakes FFS at least get the material correct;

2: 2-piece, or ‘floating’ rotors are lighter than a one piece rotor that is cast with the hat. This lighter weight actually helps handling as it reduces unsprung weight. The lighter weight per se doesn’t enhance brake performance but there are multiple other benefits to a 2-piece rotor design such as keeping heat away from the hat/hub area; allowing uniform expansion of the rotor without trying to cause distortion of the hat area; potential cost savings since you can just replace the rotor ‘ring’ when worn and re-use the hat, and so on. Negatives are initial cost and potential for increased noise for example.


Lastly: no-one here is using their GT/GTS/GTC/GTR for racing, so I can categorically tell you that the CCMs are the best type of brakes to be used on a road course with the obvious negative of increased replacement costs of the consumables. Now if AP Racing brings out one of their endurance kits for the cars like they have for the C7 Corvettes, etc. then anyone using the car a great deal would be wise to invest in them.

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Old 04-14-2018, 05:37 PM
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Sorry. Repeat post.

Last edited by thebishman; 04-14-2018 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 04-14-2018, 06:10 PM
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Replacing brake lines can introduce all sorts of new problems/issues. Rennlist had a thread where cars with high end stainless lines were spitting fittings and fluids. I believe you start with fluid and pads and go from there.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post
Replacing brake lines can introduce all sorts of new problems/issues. Rennlist had a thread where cars with high end stainless lines were spitting fittings and fluids. I believe you start with fluid and pads and go from there.
While I am a seasoned Track Day driver I am by no means an expert. I did change out the brake fluid immediately and added a set of Titanium backing plates. I left everything else stock. What I did notice was that while my pedal did eventually exhibit fade after hard use it came back quickly after cooling down. Ive replaced lines before and its never ended well for me and because of that I cant trust them anymore. I would change out pads to something harder but then Id have to change my rotors as well. I find the stock pads worked well with the stock rotors. Only if you change everything over do you get better results. For what its worth most veteran track day drivers also dont use SRF either as it makes for soft pedal feel and isnt universally compatible with a lot of newer systems. Make your brakes as heat resistant and tolerant as possible, add cooling if possible and get great rubber. Then drive it like you stole it lol
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post
Replacing brake lines can introduce all sorts of new problems/issues. Rennlist had a thread where cars with high end stainless lines were spitting fittings and fluids. I believe you start with fluid and pads and go from there.
This is a great post that all HPDE weekend warriors need to pay attention to. I had a fellow owner of a CLK BS spin the car off the track and almost wreck it due to a professionally installed SS brake line failing at high speed in a corner. Bottom line for me is this: the OEM fittings on a car like the GTR are durable and tested by the factory. The only benefit to a SS brake line versus the OEM reinforced rubber line is that maybe you might get a (very) slightly firmer pedal. Not worth the risks of switching out the OEM lines IMHO.

Now if youre actually racing, in a dedicated track only car then by all means use every professional piece of equipment necessary.
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by orenlasko View Post


While I am a seasoned Track Day driver I am by no means an expert. I did change out the brake fluid immediately and added a set of Titanium backing plates. I left everything else stock. What I did notice was that while my pedal did eventually exhibit fade after hard use it came back quickly after cooling down. I’ve replaced lines before and it’s never ended well for me and because of that I can’t trust them anymore. I would change out pads to something harder but then I’d have to change my rotors as well. I find the stock pads worked well with the stock rotors. Only if you change everything over do you get better results. For what it’s worth most veteran track day drivers also dont use SRF either as it makes for soft pedal feel and isn’t universally compatible with a lot of newer systems. Make your brakes as heat resistant and tolerant as possible, add cooling if possible and get great rubber. Then drive it like you stole it lol
"Most track day drivers don't use SRF" brake fluid you say ? Sorry dude but you should pass that joint...

Fluid typeDry/Wet Boiling
Brembo LCF600Dry: 316C (601F) Wet: 204C (399F)
CASTROL SRFDry: 310C (590F) Wet: 270C (518F)
MOTUL RBF600Dry: 312C (594F) Wet: 216C (421F)

Last edited by ronin amg; 04-15-2018 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ronin amg View Post
"Most track day drivers don't use SRF" brake fluid you say ? Sorry dude but you should pass that joint...

Fluid typeDry/Wet Boiling
Brembo LCF600Dry: 316C (601F) Wet: 204C (399F)
CASTROL SRFDry: 310C (590F) Wet: 270C (518F)
MOTUL RBF600Dry: 312C (594F) Wet: 216C (421F)
I should have clarified my statement by saying up where I am and my personal experiences with SRF. Ronin I have tremendous respect for your and your ability but its not always a personal attack. Ive spent almost 10 years doing track days. I agree with you regards the Motul products. But it also doesnt always boil down to a few degrees either way. It also comes down to pedal feel and compatibility with cars braking systems and the type of fluid used. . I use Endless 650. Ive used SRF and its not the best. Sorry. Number arent everything and thats my opinion. You have yours.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:15 PM
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So what car are you using endless in?
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:13 PM
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Ive used Endless

Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post
So what car are you using endless in?
in my 2014 e63, 2016 gle63s, 2017 GTS and I have 3 bottles ready to go into my 2018 e63s next week
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:15 PM
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Front Iron Rotor Kit:
https://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piec...ONT-p/2237.htm

Rear Iron Rotor Kit:
https://www.racingbrake.com/Mercedes...tor-p/2357.htm

Front & Rear Bundle Iron Kit:
https://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Iron-.../mb-irk-12.htm

Carbon Ceramic Rotor Kit:
https://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCM-P.../mb-crk-07.htm

All rotor kits are designed and made for a 100% bolt on installation under OE front 6 pot red caliper (not Gold CCM calipers), and rear floating single piston calipers.

All kits are in stock except front CCM rotors with 2-4 wks leadtime.

The first brake company offers a complete brake upgrade option for GT S
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