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Hard track use upgrades

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Hard track use upgrades

 
Old 06-07-2018, 03:57 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Jasonbonham View Post
I have a 2018 AMG GTR which I picked up in Feb . I started going to Track Days in April and have put 1250 miles of track time . 4 sets of tires 2 sets of pads and I am waiting for the Renntech brake up grade . I did not get Ceramic brakes ( Tight ***) but have been told they had some issues with them . The car is amazing in stock form and I had never taken a car to a track in my life and have managed a 1.27.18 time at PBR with stock cup 2 tires and no camber adjustments . The brakes do fade so my question is while Iím waiting for my upgrade rotors is there a brake pad better than stock I could use ? JB

I'm not sure what you were told re: the CCMs, but mine have absolutely no issues on track; none. Fantastic speed shedding ability lap after lap without any hint of fade. So far my pads are holding out pretty well after two track weekends although I'm getting them measured soon. I expect that I'll need new pads soon.

Have you changed to a higher performance brake fluid? If not that should be your first job. I'm using Castrol SRF with great results, but am going to switch to Endless 650 at my next exchange as it is supposed to have slightly less compressibility.

My car came with an excellent alignment from the factory with -2.2 camber front and around -1.9 camber rear. Tyres are wearing very evenly, so if your car is set up like mine, you probably won't need to screw around with a more aggressive alignment IMHO.

Re: brake pad choices. There are options from Pagid for the CCMs, but unfortunately they don't seem to have options at this time for the iron rotors; I checked for you. I can't believe that someone doesn't make more aggressive pads for your car though. Have you googled?

Great picture of the car btw; here's one of mine from last weekend:
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:37 AM
  #102  
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fun ones.
RE Rad Guards.

I have an update on these from my dealer, rad guards will be standard on all builds from July. Existing GTRs can have them retro fitted FOC (parts and labour).

parts still not available yet but at least that's another piece in the puzzle of getting this thing sorted.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:01 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post


I respect your choice of brake fluid, and like you Iíve been doing HPDEs for many years now, (since 1995). Iíve also used just about every high performance brake fluid out there, and I always come back to SRF.
This! Without a doubt, Castrol SRF is by far the best brake fluid money can buy. I've tried them all on many different cars, it will never fade as long as you keep it fresh and you can go 2-3 times more track days before bleeding so the initial cost may seem high, but it saves you money in the long run.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:58 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by BenzGTR View Post
This! Without a doubt, Castrol SRF is by far the best brake fluid money can buy. I've tried them all on many different cars, it will never fade as long as you keep it fresh and you can go 2-3 times more track days before bleeding so the initial cost may seem high, but it saves you money in the long run.
Hmm guess I really should switch.. I've always had luck with motul rbf660.. Used ate for years but the blue had its downsides.. Tried torque 700..was ok.. Stuck with motul since..

Ill give Castrol srf a try... Once my case of 660 is gone lol
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Old 08-07-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Hmm guess I really should switch.. I've always had luck with motul rbf660.. Used ate for years but the blue had its downsides.. Tried torque 700..was ok.. Stuck with motul since..

Ill give Castrol srf a try... Once my case of 660 is gone lol
There are some owners of the C7 Vette who believe that SRF, for some unknown reason, is more likely to leak at the brake bleeders on the OEM Brembos. I personally experienced this myself with the CCMís, and it was a problem that cost me run sessions.

I have SRF in the GTR and itís fine, but I would in the future try Endless 650.

Bish
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post


There are some owners of the C7 Vette who believe that SRF, for some unknown reason, is more likely to leak at the brake bleeders on the OEM Brembos. I personally experienced this myself with the CCMís, and it was a problem that cost me run sessions.

I have SRF in the GTR and itís fine, but I would in the future try Endless 650.

Bish
The SRF does indeed leak from my calipers in my ACR. Not enough to cause trouble at the track, but enough to have drip stains on them
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:49 PM
  #107  
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:47 PM
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You need only 1 litre of SRF to do,a complete flush as long as the shop you use know what they’re doing.

On the street the SRF will never cause you any issues with leaking at the bleeders.

Bish
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BenzGTR View Post
The SRF does indeed leak from my calipers in my ACR. Not enough to cause trouble at the track, but enough to have drip stains on them
Weird isnít it. Iím definitely going to try the Endless product next as Iíve read that it has less compressibility than the SRF, hence keeps a firmer pedal.

Bish
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:07 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by BenzGTR View Post
The SRF does indeed leak from my calipers in my ACR. Not enough to cause trouble at the track, but enough to have drip stains on them
Nobody knows why the SRF fluid leaks?
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:13 PM
  #111  
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I've run Castrol SRF in my GT-S, my Nissan GT-R and my Corvette C7 along with other cars on track, all with iron rotors though. I always wash bleeders with brake cleaner after torquing them to spec with my Snap-On digital torque wrench. That cleans any fluid left inside the bleeders or around the bleeders. Then blow the area with compressed air.

Never had a leak in any car with Castrol SRF with bleeders torqued to OEM specs. Another fluid I have had great success with is Project Mu, which is a Japanese product by a racing brake manufacturer similar to Endless.

Here is info from the Corvette forum from GM:

From thread starter: Some Corvette owners have found an issue with brake fluid seepage from the brake bleeders after track events. The following is a response from one of my ( not me) contacts within Corvette quality control regarding this condition:

"We have some of our Corvette owners who track their vehicle and they have brake fluid seeping from the brake bleeders after a track event. There is a simple answer for this condition. When the brake fluid is changed to DOT4, there is left over brake fluid in the brake bleeder. Once the brakes heat up, the brake fluid left in the bleeder boils and seeps out from under the rubber cap. To correct this condition, the remaining brake fluid should be flushed out by using brake clean and air pressure. Once the bleeder is clear of brake fluid, they can reinstall the bleeder."

From thread starter: Here's some additional feedback that I received today...

"Re-torquing the caliper bleeders when the caliper is hot can damage the caliper. It is also possible to damage the threads and seat for the caliperís bleeder. Torquing the bleeders should only be done when the caliper is at room temperature. The torque values are listed in the service manual that dealership service departments use.In my experience, the bleeder seepage is usually due to a small amount of fluid remaining in the bleeder column after itís tightened. It gets hot, expands, and weeps out of the top of the bleeder. Flushing with a small amount of water or a mild brake cleaner helps. Brake cleaners cannot come into contact with the carbon-ceramic discs from the Z07."

Last edited by descartesfool; 08-07-2018 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:32 PM
  #112  
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:58 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by descartesfool View Post
I've run Castrol SRF in my GT-S, my Nissan GT-R and my Corvette C7 along with other cars on track, all with iron rotors though. I always wash bleeders with brake cleaner after torquing them to spec with my Snap-On digital torque wrench. That cleans any fluid left inside the bleeders or around the bleeders. Then blow the area with compressed air.

Never had a leak in any car with Castrol SRF with bleeders torqued to OEM specs. Another fluid I have had great success with is Project Mu, which is a Japanese product by a racing brake manufacturer similar to Endless.

Here is info from the Corvette forum from GM:

From thread starter: Some Corvette owners have found an issue with brake fluid seepage from the brake bleeders after track events. The following is a response from one of my ( not me) contacts within Corvette quality control regarding this condition:

"We have some of our Corvette owners who track their vehicle and they have brake fluid seeping from the brake bleeders after a track event. There is a simple answer for this condition. When the brake fluid is changed to DOT4, there is left over brake fluid in the brake bleeder. Once the brakes heat up, the brake fluid left in the bleeder boils and seeps out from under the rubber cap. To correct this condition, the remaining brake fluid should be flushed out by using brake clean and air pressure. Once the bleeder is clear of brake fluid, they can reinstall the bleeder."

From thread starter: Here's some additional feedback that I received today...

"Re-torquing the caliper bleeders when the caliper is hot can damage the caliper. It is also possible to damage the threads and seat for the caliperís bleeder. Torquing the bleeders should only be done when the caliper is at room temperature. The torque values are listed in the service manual that dealership service departments use.In my experience, the bleeder seepage is usually due to a small amount of fluid remaining in the bleeder column after itís tightened. It gets hot, expands, and weeps out of the top of the bleeder. Flushing with a small amount of water or a mild brake cleaner helps. Brake cleaners cannot come into contact with the carbon-ceramic discs from the Z07."
Man this is one of the most useful posts I've ever read, this has to be exactly what's happening, because it's only a tiny bit, just enough to stain the calipers over time.
So you spray brake cleaner directly down inside the hole at the top of the bleeder? Then compressed air?
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:12 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by austintipton View Post
Here is my experience with the GTS.

The collision prevention sensor is a pain. But how much depends on you. If you are seeing it a lot, the car in front of you is braking harder than you! If you are braking harder than it, you won't be bothered.
No this isn't true, in most cases it would be, but a faster guy behind a slower guy on slicks would be braking way later.
If a slower car is in front of me and I know I can brake harder, i would be right on his bumper, one foot on my brake on on the gas. Would this cause the collision prevention to kick on?
I'm still reading this oldish thread, so maybe you guys figured out how to disable it 100%, hopefully so.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:50 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by descartesfool View Post
I've run Castrol SRF in my GT-S, my Nissan GT-R and my Corvette C7 along with other cars on track, all with iron rotors though. I always wash bleeders with brake cleaner after torquing them to spec with my Snap-On digital torque wrench. That cleans any fluid left inside the bleeders or around the bleeders. Then blow the area with compressed air.

Never had a leak in any car with Castrol SRF with bleeders torqued to OEM specs. Another fluid I have had great success with is Project Mu, which is a Japanese product by a racing brake manufacturer similar to Endless.

Here is info from the Corvette forum from GM:

From thread starter: Some Corvette owners have found an issue with brake fluid seepage from the brake bleeders after track events. The following is a response from one of my ( not me) contacts within Corvette quality control regarding this condition:

"We have some of our Corvette owners who track their vehicle and they have brake fluid seeping from the brake bleeders after a track event. There is a simple answer for this condition. When the brake fluid is changed to DOT4, there is left over brake fluid in the brake bleeder. Once the brakes heat up, the brake fluid left in the bleeder boils and seeps out from under the rubber cap. To correct this condition, the remaining brake fluid should be flushed out by using brake clean and air pressure. Once the bleeder is clear of brake fluid, they can reinstall the bleeder."

From thread starter: Here's some additional feedback that I received today...

"Re-torquing the caliper bleeders when the caliper is hot can damage the caliper. It is also possible to damage the threads and seat for the caliperís bleeder. Torquing the bleeders should only be done when the caliper is at room temperature. The torque values are listed in the service manual that dealership service departments use.In my experience, the bleeder seepage is usually due to a small amount of fluid remaining in the bleeder column after itís tightened. It gets hot, expands, and weeps out of the top of the bleeder. Flushing with a small amount of water or a mild brake cleaner helps. Brake cleaners cannot come into contact with the carbon-ceramic discs from the Z07."

this is a proven method, i have done it on my Corvette a few times.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sno View Post
this is a proven method, i have done it on my Corvette a few times.
ditto... I may stick with the Motul RBF660, but would love to see how Bish does with the endless fluid
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BenzGTR View Post
Man this is one of the most useful posts I've ever read, this has to be exactly what's happening, because it's only a tiny bit, just enough to stain the calipers over time.
So you spray brake cleaner directly down inside the hole at the top of the bleeder? Then compressed air?
Yes. Spray inside and around the bleeder with brake cleaner, and then blow-dry with compressed air. Careful not to get anything in your eyes! I hear you can also just wash it off with water, but I've never tried that because I don't have water in my garage, but I imagine a spray bottle would work.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:46 PM
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decartesfool, (Claude): thanks for your reply as you have extensive track experience and everyone can benefit from your expertise.

Unfortunately, the scenario painted by GM, and posted above by yourself, did not apply to my situation at all. I had major leaking of fluid from all four brake bleeders on my Z07 equipped Z06; so much so that it was being thrown up on the fenders, and I was forced to top up the master cylinder. The fronts were far worse than the rears. I am no fool, plus the shop I use to prep my track cars is staffed by ex SCCA racers, and I trust them completely. The bleeders were always torqued to spec, and when the calipers were at room temp. Whilst I agree that people can very often get minor ‘seeping’ of brake fluid on the calipers alone from residual fluid left in the bleeder when tightened, that is not what happened with my ‘Vette. This situation only ever happened on the track, and is far more prevalent in the CCM equipped cars. The Brembos on the Vette are consumer quality, not commercial quality like a brake system such as the AP Racing replacements which is what I would have placed on the car had I kept it.

Regardless I have not experienced any issues with the CCMs on the GT R, and I haven’t even seen any seeping from the bleeders due to residual fluid. They are in fact, IMHO, a fantastic set of brakes even with the OEM pads once you’ve burnished them, and I suspect they’ll be even better with a set of Pagid RSC1 pads.

Bish

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Old 08-09-2018, 10:11 AM
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For the guys that have tracked their GTR's hard, how do you like the 4 wheel steering? My GT3 buddies are mixed on it, some like it, some don't. Obviously it will help you in slower speed corner exit, but when it swtiches over at higher speeds, do you feel it? Does it bother you?
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BenzGTR View Post
For the guys that have tracked their GTR's hard, how do you like the 4 wheel steering? My GT3 buddies are mixed on it, some like it, some don't. Obviously it will help you in slower speed corner exit, but when it swtiches over at higher speeds, do you feel it? Does it bother you?
It hasnít bothered me one bit. In fact the car is incredible easy to place precisely where you want it on track. I personally donít even think about it having RWS.
The only thing I noticed the first time on track when I was using the OEM SC2 tyres is that I thought the front was under steering a little, although I was having issues keeping the pressures reasonable so that may have been it. With the SC 2 ZP tyres it was a non-event.

Bish
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:40 PM
  #121  
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Here's a couple of pix of my track wheel/tyre set-up so 'you' can see how the wheels look and how the tyres, being larger than the OEM SC2s, fill things out:
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post





Here's a couple of pix of my track wheel/tyre set-up so 'you' can see how the wheels look and how the tyres, being larger than the OEM SC2s, fill things out:

Nice wheels! Are those 19?
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
Here's a couple of pix of my track wheel/tyre set-up so 'you' can see how the wheels look and how the tyres, being larger than the OEM SC2s, fill things out:
Nice dude! Did you go with stock widths or go a little wider? No trouble at all with traction/stability control? Those tires are about 1" taller front and rear than your stock tires.
I think for my track wheels I'm going Forgeline and 11.5" wide in the front and 13" wide rears.
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:07 PM
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Wheels are the exact OEM sizes; 19" front and 20" rear. No issues at all with the 'electronics'. Remember these tyres are designed to work on the OEM wheels and can be ordered for delivery in certain counties.

Bish
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Old 08-13-2018, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by thebishman View Post
Wheels are the exact OEM sizes; 19" front and 20" rear. No issues at all with the 'electronics'. Remember these tyres are designed to work on the OEM wheels and can be ordered for delivery in certain counties.

Bish
Yeah they can, but the car would be programmed for those heights. I think you are fine because both front and rear both dropped similar heights (23mm front and 28mm rear) Problems are more likely to happen when you increase/decrease one and not the other.
285-30-19 653mm
335-25-20 676mm

275-35-19 676mm
325-30-20 704mm
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