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I should have clarified my statement by saying up where I am and my personal experiences with SRF. Ronin I have tremendous respect for your and your ability but it’s not always a personal attack. I’ve spent almost 10 years doing track days. I agree with you regards the Motul products. But it also doesn’t always “boil” down to a few degrees either way. It also comes down to pedal feel and compatibility with cars braking systems and the type of fluid used. . I use Endless 650. I’ve used SRF and it’s not the best. Sorry. Number aren’t everything and that’s my opinion. You have yours.
I respect your choice of brake fluid, and like you I’ve been doing HPDEs for many years now, (since 1995). I’ve also used just about every high performance brake fluid out there, and I always come back to SRF.
I should have clarified my statement by saying up where I am and my personal experiences with SRF. Ronin I have tremendous respect for your and your ability but it’s not always a personal attack. I’ve spent almost 10 years doing track days. I agree with you regards the Motul products. But it also doesn’t always “boil” down to a few degrees either way. It also comes down to pedal feel and compatibility with cars braking systems and the type of fluid used. . I use Endless 650. I’ve used SRF and it’s not the best. Sorry. Number aren’t everything and that’s my opinion. You have yours.
I apologize for my attempt at sarcastic humor, my bad....
I had my dealer flush out the OEM fluid and replace it with SRF before I would take delivery of my 2018 e63s wagon, even with the CCB there was peddle fade to the point of WTF on the new AMG.
After the flush and SRF replacement the peddle no longer feels spongy no matter how hard I push it on the down hill sections in the canyons...
When I'm ready for the next fluid flush I'll give the Endless a try in the GTS and wagon..
I apologize for my attempt at sarcastic humor, my bad....
I had my dealer flush out the OEM fluid and replace it with SRF before I would take delivery of my 2018 e63s wagon, even with the CCB there was peddle fade to the point of WTF on the new AMG.
After the flush and SRF replacement the peddle no longer feels spongy no matter how hard I push it on the down hill sections in the canyons...
When I'm ready for the next fluid flush I'll give the Endless a try in the GTS and wagon..
its easy for me to misunderstand things as they are written ...
I wish we had some great driving roads up here but sadly that’s not the case. I don’t get to really heat up the brakes much unless I hit a track to enjoy myself... although I do smirk when I downshift in traffic and it cracks off a loud one and some people jump...
have a great week!
Last edited by DriveAMG; 04-15-2018 at 09:27 PM.
Reason: Spelling
Virtually EVERYONE at COTA runs SRF... COTA is murder on brakes bc of the two very long straights and SRF is the only real fluid that can handle that kind of abuse. It's hands down the best fluid period. WET temps are what really matter bc any fluid older than a couple months begins to fall into that category as brake fluid is hydrophilic and seeks out water anyway it can. Dry temp numbers are just for marketing purposes ignore them.
Ronin sounds like your shop was lazy and did not properly bleed / fill the brakes with a pressurized brake fluid pump and probably just gravity filled it. SRF has ZERO fade if done properly. You also need to use 2L when changing over to SRF not just one to ensure you get all the old fluid out. Find a new shop/dealership
Virtually EVERYONE at COTA runs SRF... COTA is murder on brakes bc of the two very long straights and SRF is the only real fluid that can handle that kind of abuse. It's hands down the best fluid period. WET temps are what really matter bc any fluid older than a couple months begins to fall into that category as brake fluid is hydrophilic and seeks out water anyway it can. Dry temp numbers are just for marketing purposes ignore them.
Ronin sounds like your shop was lazy and did not properly bleed / fill the brakes with a pressurized brake fluid pump and probably just gravity filled it. SRF has ZERO fade if done properly. You also need to use 2L when changing over to SRF not just one to ensure you get all the old fluid out. Find a new shop/dealership
ive used it and my only beef with it is factual. It is more compressible than Endless. I like a hard pedal and SRF didn’t give me that. And for the record Endless is a factory fill on the 911 GT3 and used in F1 by AMG Mercedes. At the end of the day it boils down to whatever works for you.
Virtually EVERYONE at COTA runs SRF... COTA is murder on brakes bc of the two very long straights and SRF is the only real fluid that can handle that kind of abuse. It's hands down the best fluid period. WET temps are what really matter bc any fluid older than a couple months begins to fall into that category as brake fluid is hydrophilic and seeks out water anyway it can. Dry temp numbers are just for marketing purposes ignore them.
Ronin sounds like your shop was lazy and did not properly bleed / fill the brakes with a pressurized brake fluid pump and probably just gravity filled it. SRF has ZERO fade if done properly. You also need to use 2L when changing over to SRF not just one to ensure you get all the old fluid out. Find a new shop/dealership
My shop was a Mercedes Benz dealership, I gave them 4 ltr bottles in order to do a proper flush. This was not my first rodeo..
Endless, Castrol SRF, who cares? They are not the weak point or the expensive part of braking. Any Road Atlanta or COTA top run group drivers find a good rotor/pad combo that holds up?
I've provided my input. Stock rotors warped in two or three track days. RacingBrake rotors heat cycled out after five. Anyone know of a better rotor to try? That's $320/day in rotor cost. (Don't tell me I need a cool down lap. That isn't the issue.)
EBC Bluestuff is $150 for a set and that BARELY make it through one day. Anyone found a pad that costs $300 or less and lasts two full track days at speed? Or can anyone confirm they've seen rotors last longer with some more expensive pad?
I'm at $470/day in pads and rotors alone. Anyone doing any better? Or is everyone tracking a different car?
Endless, Castrol SRF, who cares? They are not the weak point or the expensive part of braking. Any Road Atlanta or COTA top run group drivers find a good rotor/pad combo that holds up?
I've provided my input. Stock rotors warped in two or three track days. RacingBrake rotors heat cycled out after five. Anyone know of a better rotor to try? That's $320/day in rotor cost. (Don't tell me I need a cool down lap. That isn't the issue.)
EBC Bluestuff is $150 for a set and that BARELY make it through one day. Anyone found a pad that costs $300 or less and lasts two full track days at speed? Or can anyone confirm they've seen rotors last longer with some more expensive pad?
I'm at $470/day in pads and rotors alone. Anyone doing any better? Or is everyone tracking a different car?
From my own experience, I use Girodisc's SLS Rotors with Pagid RSL29 pads, I've found that this combination has given me endless braking power with minimum fade.
I used the same combination on my C63 AMGS and it was vastly better than burning through the stock rotors in 2 days.
It isn't the cheapest option, but it has lasted the longest so in turn it ends up being a bit more economic, which is a plus.
Endless, Castrol SRF, who cares? They are not the weak point or the expensive part of braking. Any Road Atlanta or COTA top run group drivers find a good rotor/pad combo that holds up?
I've provided my input. Stock rotors warped in two or three track days. RacingBrake rotors heat cycled out after five. Anyone know of a better rotor to try? That's $320/day in rotor cost. (Don't tell me I need a cool down lap. That isn't the issue.)
EBC Bluestuff is $150 for a set and that BARELY make it through one day. Anyone found a pad that costs $300 or less and lasts two full track days at speed? Or can anyone confirm they've seen rotors last longer with some more expensive pad?
I'm at $470/day in pads and rotors alone. Anyone doing any better? Or is everyone tracking a different car?
Not sure what car you have but I’d bet you have uneven brake pad deposition on the rotor because you’ve used an inferior pad, rather than actually warped the rotor. $170 for a “set” of brake pads seems ridiculously low IMHO; you get what you pay for.
Find a true track ready set of pads and put them on the car. Within a few laps you’ll probably burnish off the old street pad material and the rotor will then be fine.
Don’t cheap out on components on a road course; least of all brakes.
Endless, Castrol SRF, who cares? They are not the weak point or the expensive part of braking. Any Road Atlanta or COTA top run group drivers find a good rotor/pad combo that holds up?
I've provided my input. Stock rotors warped in two or three track days. RacingBrake rotors heat cycled out after five. Anyone know of a better rotor to try? That's $320/day in rotor cost. (Don't tell me I need a cool down lap. That isn't the issue.)
EBC Bluestuff is $150 for a set and that BARELY make it through one day. Anyone found a pad that costs $300 or less and lasts two full track days at speed? Or can anyone confirm they've seen rotors last longer with some more expensive pad?
I'm at $470/day in pads and rotors alone. Anyone doing any better? Or is everyone tracking a different car?
We don't seem to have received a complaint/claim like this from any Mercedes owners. Can you email (info@racingbrake.com) or PM us your name and order number so we can identify your purchase of RB rotors. I am curious to learn what makes you conclude that a more expensive track pads should make no difference to overall brake performance, and the rotor is the prime factor for brake issue.
We don't seem to have received a complaint/claim like this from any Mercedes owners. Can you email (info@racingbrake.com) or PM us your name and order number so we can identify your purchase of RB rotors. I am curious to learn what makes you conclude that a more expensive track pads should make no difference to overall brake performance, and the rotor is the prime factor for brake issue.
I did email RacingBrake and sent pictures of the rotors in question. They advised they were ready for replacement.
However, it is simply too early for me to pass any judgement on if five track days at COTA and 4,000 street miles was good or not. I've ordered Girodisc rotors and Pagid pads to try now. I only do a few track days a year, but I'll try and remember to report back what I find. Even then, I will have swapped out both components (rotor + pad), so it won't be a decent test until I test RacingBrake rotors with Pagid pads.
As stated before, lowering the cost of brakes from $470/day is the goal. I don't know if it can be done or not. We'll see. If the Girodisc+Pagid combo doesn't hold up more than five track days, I may look into adding the GT4's four cooling tunnels and scoop shield to just blast the air in there.
I might have screwed up. I had a choice of two available GTCs. Based on my experience with a couple Porsches I chose the steel brakes, but I still have a very small window to change my mind. I am trying to get recommendations upgrading the steel brakes dumbed down for a guy who likes driving, but has no hands on experience. So for example I have seen references to RacingBrake and CCM, but don't know if those are simple drop ins for the OEM equipment, or whether there is more involved.
I do track my car, but mostly at a private club in Indiana maybe 10-15 times a year. The track is about 2.5 hours away. I drive up. Run out a tank of gas and either continue on my way or head home. I don't press nearly as hard as many of you do, partially because I am not especially competent, I only have somewhere between 50-100 total track days experience, but also because the car is my ride home. Most of the miles I put on the car will come from its use as a daily driver, and a road trip car. The AMG I can get with the steel brakes is optioned more along the lines of what I would have chosen independently. The one with the ceramics is something like Diamond White, which isn't all that appealing at first glance.
I might have screwed up. I had a choice of two available GTCs. Based on my experience with a couple Porsches I chose the steel brakes, but I still have a very small window to change my mind. I am trying to get recommendations upgrading the steel brakes dumbed down for a guy who likes driving, but has no hands on experience. So for example I have seen references to RacingBrake and CCM, but don't know if those are simple drop ins for the OEM equipment, or whether there is more involved.
I do track my car, but mostly at a private club in Indiana maybe 10-15 times a year. The track is about 2.5 hours away. I drive up. Run out a tank of gas and either continue on my way or head home. I don't press nearly as hard as many of you do, partially because I am not especially competent, I only have somewhere between 50-100 total track days experience, but also because the car is my ride home. Most of the miles I put on the car will come from its use as a daily driver, and a road trip car. The AMG I can get with the steel brakes is optioned more along the lines of what I would have chosen independently. The one with the ceramics is something like Diamond White, which isn't all that appealing at first glance.
Both should work well under the conditions you mention, other than have the brake fluid changed to a high quality DOT 4 fluid. The carbon ceramic matrix (CCM) brakes will cause less ‘dust’ on the wheels and will last a long time, unless you become far more addicted to ‘track days’, in which case they can become expensive as you consume them on track. On the street the rotors will outlive the car unless you damage them somehow. Every review I’ve read on the iron brakes state they are fine on the street but tend to fade after a couple of hot laps on a road course. They are cheaper to replace of course.
Bish
Both should work well under the conditions you mention, other than have the brake fluid changed to a high quality DOT 4 fluid. The carbon ceramic matrix (CCM) brakes will cause less ‘dust’ on the wheels and will last a long time, unless you become far more addicted to ‘track days’, in which case they can become expensive as you consume them on track. On the street the rotors will outlive the car unless you damage them somehow. Every review I’ve read on the iron brakes state they are fine on the street but tend to fade after a couple of hot laps on a road course. They are cheaper to replace of course.
Bish
Thanks, your answer is pretty much what I expected. I’ve had two very different experiences with ceramics on the two Porsche’s I tracked. The first was a 2012 Turbo S. I ended up switching over to steel brakes after running through three sets of pads and observing the steady deterioration of the rotors. Conversely, I had no problems with my 2016 GT3 RS. Because its weight is closer to the Turbo S I’m expecting my GTC to burn through pads and rotors. If possible, I’ll buy the GTC with ceramics. If not, I’ll plan to install them at some point in the not too distant future.
I definitely plan to replace the OEM brake fluid, most likely when I get the oil changed after breaking in the engine.
I’m actually trading in a 488, mostly because I underestimated how much attention it would get, but also because of the insane running costs. The cost of pads and rotors for a 488 is in the neighborhood of $40,000 and that doesn’t include installation.
ive used it and my only beef with it is factual. It is more compressible than Endless. I like a hard pedal and SRF didn’t give me that. And for the record Endless is a factory fill on the 911 GT3 and used in F1 by AMG Mercedes. At the end of the day it boils down to whatever works for you.
Hmm.. Ive been stuck on Motul RBF660 last couple years...
Thanks, your answer is pretty much what I expected. I’ve had two very different experiences with ceramics on the two Porsche’s I tracked. The first was a 2012 Turbo S. I ended up switching over to steel brakes after running through three sets of pads and observing the steady deterioration of the rotors. Conversely, I had no problems with my 2016 GT3 RS. Because its weight is closer to the Turbo S I’m expecting my GTC to burn through pads and rotors. If possible, I’ll buy the GTC with ceramics. If not, I’ll plan to install them at some point in the not too distant future.
I definitely plan to replace the OEM brake fluid, most likely when I get the oil changed after breaking in the engine.
I’m actually trading in a 488, mostly because I underestimated how much attention it would get, but also because of the insane running costs. The cost of pads and rotors for a 488 is in the neighborhood of $40,000 and that doesn’t include installation.
I think the Gen 3 PCCBs seem to be far more hard wearing based on what I’ve read on RennLine; so track guys are getting a lot of days out of the rotors with minimal wear measured.
I intend to pay very close attention to the depth of my pads and will replace them when they get down to 1/3rd of the original depth. I’m convinced that switching pads early really helps ‘save’ the rotor from early oxidation. At least it worked well with my ‘15 Z06/7 Corvette.
So the fun and games with rear ceramic pads continues...
The standard part number still shows no stock world wide and no ETA on parts. However there is an alternative part number that does have stock, no one seems to be aware of this alternative part (even the parts department at the MB owned MBWorld UK) and this was only revealed when MB Technical got involved.
I have a set of these alternative pads on their way arriving tomorrow. There's no information on how they differ from the standard ones but we'll see when I get them.
I have a 2018 AMG GTR which I picked up in Feb . I started going to Track Days in April and have put 1250 miles of track time . 4 sets of tires 2 sets of pads and I am waiting for the Renntech brake up grade . I did not get Ceramic brakes ( Tight ***) but have been told they had some issues with them . The car is amazing in stock form and I had never taken a car to a track in my life and have managed a 1.27.18 time at PBR with stock cup 2 tires and no camber adjustments . The brakes do fade so my question is while I’m waiting for my upgrade rotors is there a brake pad better than stock I could use ? JB
04-15-2018, 02:00 PM
