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I've been tracking Viper's hard for a few years, got very fast with them. I've always had Benz daily drivers, so now that my sons are about moved out to college, time for the S63 to go away for a GTR for the new daily driver
I had a Grey Magno 2019 on order FOREVER, it got dropped off the boat at Long Beach, CA in October, I waited and waited, no info from the dealer so I ended up buying a green car private party (see pics below) with 2K miles and saved $41K over stick plus saved $15K in sales tax since here in Arizona there's no sales tax on vehicles if bought from a private party. Car was $208K sticker so I think it has all the options. I really wanted the grey magno, but $46K can make you color blind. LOL.
I've only driven the car twice. My first impressions are it seems really dated inside. The dash, tech etc, just seem old school. My wife's 2018 E63 wagon seems 100 years ahead. The dash, the key, most of the interior are way behind, except for the GORGEOUS middle console with all the spaceship style switches.
On the street with spirited driving, this car is a HANDFUL versus my ACR's., the monster low rpm torque from the hot V 4.0 just overpowers the tires. The car is pretty scary under strong throttle. I can say right off the bat the car needs WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more wing. Just 3/4 throttle the rear will start to step out and the electronics step in and cut torque. After racing Viper's with no aero vs racing Viper's with ACR aero, I can say a big wing would make this car so much faster. I have already ordered the ZP compound tires for street use and just spent 2 hours today with my local wheel expert at Wheel Specialists here in Tempe AZ. Darren went above and beyond measuring fore me and we are going with 19X11 front and 19X12.5 rears for custom Forgeline's running Michelin slicks for track use. I'm tracking the car December 19th at Arizona Motorsports Park, but I can already tell this car will be a handful coming out of low speed corners. I will have to be part throttle everywhere where a big wing would let me be full throttle on all corner exits. I'll report back after the event, and will keep searching the most economical way to more rear downforce!!!!
Congratulations on the acquisition. Looks like you got a hell of a deal. I just got mine two weeks ago so still going through the break in period. Do you have any pictures of the interior? when you refer to the tech being old what do you mean about the key?
Yes. The GTR is easy to upset coming out of low speed corners. Last few track days I drove on second red TC light setting which is little to no safety net but is very rewarding. All the yellow settings are too restrictive and it was only on the first red light that I found the car was not fighting back. There are 2 decreasing radius turns at my track that are always a bit squirrelly when trying to get on the power. Definitely have to make sure the car is pointed first, *** end squirms a little then she just squats and goes.
No mistaking that car when it comes down the street!
Yeah it's a little much. LOL. I really wanted the Grey Magno. I've only driven it twice now and it gets as much cell phone video/pics as my ACR. What sucks is first thing everyone says "is that a wrap"
AMG GTR (sadly now sold)+991.2 GT3 RS+GT3 Touring+991 GTS+997 GT3 RS+996 GT3 RS+964 RS+Mini Cooper S
Big wing will not help you out of slow speed corners. It will only help at higher speeds. Rather, this car has a traction problem in certain conditions. It is very, very sensitive to tires temps/pressures to the extent that it is almost undrivable in the wet. When tires temps are up, on certain tracks when its dry, I can be up to 2 secs faster in the GTR compared to my GT3.2....but in the wet of on a damp track, I am at least 5-7 secs slower. Its just not good in cold or wet conditions.
Big wing will not help you out of slow speed corners. It will only help at higher speeds. Rather, this car has a traction problem in certain conditions. It is very, very sensitive to tires temps/pressures to the extent that it is almost undrivable in the wet. When tires temps are up, on certain tracks when its dry, I can be up to 2 secs faster in the GTR compared to my GT3.2....but in the wet of on a damp track, I am at least 5-7 secs slower. Its just not good in cold or wet conditions.
What do you mean exactly by "a big wing will not help you out of slow speed corners". Are you saying you can come out of a hairpin turn and give the car full throttle immediately and it puts the power down 100%? That no additional rear downforce will help you put the power down sooner? That makes no sense.
On my Viper's just changing wing settings dramatically changes the speeds at which I can fully floor it in 1st or 2nd gear. With the wing cranked for more downforce I can put the power down MUCH sooner. Check out the pic below.
At just 60mph the wing is generating 230 lbs of downforce. I'll never be able to put a wing like that on the GTR, but anything bigger than what's on there is going to help me power out of low speed turns faster.
Big wing will not help you out of slow speed corners. It will only help at higher speeds. Rather, this car has a traction problem in certain conditions. It is very, very sensitive to tires temps/pressures to the extent that it is almost undrivable in the wet. When tires temps are up, on certain tracks when its dry, I can be up to 2 secs faster in the GTR compared to my GT3.2....but in the wet of on a damp track, I am at least 5-7 secs slower. Its just not good in cold or wet conditions.
Agreed. I start my MPSC2 ZPs at 25psi F and 26psi R on track. End up around 32psi at all four corners and handling is excellent. These are of course wider and ‘stickier’ tyres than the OEM SC2s that came on the car.
I also agree that driving to track out in slower corners is far more to do with mechanical grip. This is helped greatly by the more track oriented ZP tyres, especially after a couple of laps. I drive it in ‘Race’ with ESP Off and two red lights showing on the TC controller and the car is incredibly stable. But you cannot treat the gas pedal as an on/off switch due to the early torque delivery.
It looks like you got a killer deal on the GTR. Congrats! My last track day a WSIR there was a ton of VIper ACR's. It looked like they had both mechanical grip running Kumo's and Hoosiers and huge down force BUT on the long straights the drag on that wing allowed me to catch them and with carbon ceramics out brake them. Also ACR's lose about 10% of their power at elevation and the GT's don't.
I see your in AZ as I just moved there for CA and looking for a track. Is your event a private track day or is it open?
It looks like you got a killer deal on the GTR. Congrats! My last track day a WSIR there was a ton of VIper ACR's. It looked like they had both mechanical grip running Kumo's and Hoosiers and huge down force BUT on the long straights the drag on that wing allowed me to catch them and with carbon ceramics out brake them. Also ACR's lose about 10% of their power at elevation and the GT's don't.
I see your in AZ as I just moved there for CA and looking for a track. Is your event a private track day or is it open?
Yeah the ACR's are "slow" on long straights and Viper's in general pull a lot of timing as they get hotter.
It's a private thing with the Porsche guys, I'm lucky to be going or I'd invite you for sure. Sounds like you are fairly experienced, have you thought of joining a club like NasaProRacing.com ? They will be running the same track next month. http://arizonamotorsportspark.com
Yeah the ACR's are "slow" on long straights and Viper's in general pull a lot of timing as they get hotter.
It's a private thing with the Porsche guys, I'm lucky to be going or I'd invite you for sure. Sounds like you are fairly experienced, have you thought of joining a club like NasaProRacing.com ? They will be running the same track next month. http://arizonamotorsportspark.com
Thank you for the info I'll look into it. I thought I'd slow down and play golf and ya know what, after 30 years of being a track junkie you never lose the desire, skill maybe but not the desire.
It looks like you got a killer deal on the GTR. Congrats! My last track day a WSIR there was a ton of VIper ACR's. It looked like they had both mechanical grip running Kumo's and Hoosiers and huge down force BUT on the long straights the drag on that wing allowed me to catch them and with carbon ceramics out brake them. Also ACR's lose about 10% of their power at elevation and the GT's don't.
I see your in AZ as I just moved there for CA and looking for a track. Is your event a private track day or is it open?
What times are you pulling at WSIR? It used to be my home track. Are you able to keep your foot to the floor through 9 in the GTR?
Thank you for the info I'll look into it. I thought I'd slow down and play golf and ya know what, after 30 years of being a track junkie you never lose the desire, skill maybe but not the desire.
Ok, cool. I'm good friends with the owner of the Arizona region, and with your experience he'll let you skip all the HPDE 1 through 3 stuff and go right to 4, or even time trials if you are fast.
What times are you pulling at WSIR? It used to be my home track. Are you able to keep your foot to the floor through 9 in the GTR?
CA John,
I'm driving a GTS not a GTR! It has modest tune and track alignment with additional cooling by Dime engineering. I'm not able to run flat in 9. I'm apexing at 95- mph but putting the hammer down spins the tires and upsets the exit. I have to feed the gas smoothly or the car gets upset with snap over steer. My dyno sheet shows 500 lb ft at 2300 rpm so its the torque that I'm trying to manage and 295's in the rear which isn't enough tire or are the MPSC2's stickly enough. I haven't had the chance to run a GTR but with the traction control it would be night and day difference between our cars. I run with West Coast Racing blue group as I don't have a cage and harness and its a fun laid back group. I'm cruising in the mid 1:30's as they restrict passing to front and back straights. I can get down to the 1.32's with some good conditions. To be honest I don't think the additional power makes the car more drivable but it does feel good on the straights.
Ok, cool. I'm good friends with the owner of the Arizona region, and with your experience he'll let you skip all the HPDE 1 through 3 stuff and go right to 4, or even time trials if you are fast.
Benz,
Do they runt the 2.3 mi configuration? Proly need a few sessions to get the track down.
CA John,
I'm driving a GTS not a GTR! It has modest tune and track alignment with additional cooling by Dime engineering. I'm not able to run flat in 9. I'm apexing at 95- mph but putting the hammer down spins the tires and upsets the exit. I have to feed the gas smoothly or the car gets upset with snap over steer. My dyno sheet shows 500 lb ft at 2300 rpm so its the torque that I'm trying to manage and 295's in the rear which isn't enough tire or are the MPSC2's stickly enough. I haven't had the chance to run a GTR but with the traction control it would be night and day difference between our cars. I run with West Coast Racing blue group as I don't have a cage and harness and its a fun laid back group. I'm cruising in the mid 1:30's as they restrict passing to front and back straights. I can get down to the 1.32's with some good conditions. To be honest I don't think the additional power makes the car more drivable but it does feel good on the straights.
Sorry I misunderstood. It's so interesting to compare notes. Although I haven't raced in quite some time and most of my racing was with SCCA with a S2000 DB2 (purpose built race car), I remember all parts of WSIR well.This video shows Randy Pobst at WSIR comparing a 2016 GTS to the 2016 Jaguar F Type Coupe R and he runs an unbelievable 127.04!!! This is with a stocker. Shows the difference between recreational racers like you and me and a pro. His exit of 9 is 95 also. Anyway, I get excited seeing one of our cars running Big Willow - and running it for all it's worth. I sympathize with you on being careful on your exit of 9 to not go into snap oversteer. Turn 9 is not a fun place to go off.
Benz,
Do they runt the 2.3 mi configuration? Proly need a few sessions to get the track down.
Yeah the whole track. Nasa usually runs CW Saturday and CCW Sunday. I've only done the track a couple times because of the sound limit (In my wifes E63 wagon), but it's extremely easy to learn.
Sorry I misunderstood. It's so interesting to compare notes. Although I haven't raced in quite some time and most of my racing was with SCCA with a S2000 DB2 (purpose built race car), I remember all parts of WSIR well.This video shows Randy Pobst at WSIR comparing a 2016 GTS to the 2016 Jaguar F Type Coupe R and he runs an unbelievable 127.04!!! This is with a stocker. Shows the difference between recreational racers like you and me and a pro. His exit of 9 is 95 also. Anyway, I get excited seeing one of our cars running Big Willow - and running it for all it's worth. I sympathize with you on being careful on your exit of 9 to not go into snap oversteer. Turn 9 is not a fun place to go off.
Thanks for the info Jim. Sure sounds like fun😎
CA John,
I've watched that video many times. Randy's and my line are the same except he's going 142mph into turn 8 and I'm doing 130. LOL.
CA John,
I've watched that video many times. Randy's and my line are the same except he's going 142mph into turn 8 and I'm doing 130. LOL.
That is the difference isn't it! If I remember properly, the exit of 5 is crucial because that speed carries through 6 and all the way into 8. But it's been quite a while for me and I was not in a street car. But when I watch that video it all comes to life. I car feel the car digging, digging as he slides out to the edge of 9. Great video.
Sorry I misunderstood. It's so interesting to compare notes. Although I haven't raced in quite some time and most of my racing was with SCCA with a S2000 DB2 (purpose built race car), I remember all parts of WSIR well.This video shows Randy Pobst at WSIR comparing a 2016 GTS to the 2016 Jaguar F Type Coupe R and he runs an unbelievable 127.04!!! This is with a stocker. Shows the difference between recreational racers like you and me and a pro. His exit of 9 is 95 also. Anyway, I get excited seeing one of our cars running Big Willow - and running it for all it's worth. I sympathize with you on being careful on your exit of 9 to not go into snap oversteer. Turn 9 is not a fun place to go off.
Thanks for the info Jim. Sure sounds like fun😎
My old Lotus could pull a 1:27 flat at Big Willow with only 280 hp.
My old Lotus could pull a 1:27 flat at Big Willow with only 280 hp.
LOL. You had a marvelous time in your Lotus. I had a 125 flat with my 140 HP Swift DB2! Single overhead cam Pinto engine. But the entire car only weighed about 1,350 with me in it! Big Willow is a high horsepower track. Stockers tend to push in turns 2 and 8-9. I kept my foot to the floor in 2 and in 8-9 (well, actually a small "comfort lift" at the middle of eight while I strapped my ***** in for foot to the floor end of 8 and 9!
12-13-2018, 11:52 PM
