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Anyone considered the Vantage vs GTS

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Anyone considered the Vantage vs GTS

 
Old 02-03-2019, 01:48 PM
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Anyone considered the Vantage vs GTS

We are in the market for a new roadster and thinking AMG GTC. Love the coupe but need a top-down car. Timing-wise it'll be a MY19 or 20.

At the same time I am being teased with very low-priced lease deals on 2019 AM Vantages and wonder if it's worth as an additional weekend car. While I agree that the cars front grill looks a bit more unfinished than previous models, the car looks incredible in the flesh with its small overhangs. Interior is quite nice, has the AMG 4.0 liter engine, MB electronics and with an average price of $180k is hundreds less a month than a bare-bone AMG GT coupe.
People are split on the tranny but even if it doesn't match the Getrag you can never go wrong on a ZF 8speed, even with less than optimal software programming,

What are your thoughts?
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:09 PM
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What are numbers on a lease ?

and they do have a manual coming.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post
What are numbers on a lease ?

and they do have a manual coming.
Was offered was $1699 a month, $5k down including first and fees. 36/5k miles which would fit my needs.
I haven't asked for more details because we had 40 degrees below zero here last week (not windchill) and cars were not top of mind...

A lease is perfect for an Aston, given the depreciation.
Not sure about a manual; my wife would never drive it then
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:10 PM
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Hmm. Would be a great deal @7.5 k.
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Old 02-03-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post
Hmm. Would be a great deal @7.5 k.
Wonder why you would say that. An equally priced AMG would be $3k a month, give or take.
Is that a good deal at 7.5k?

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Old 02-03-2019, 03:30 PM
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Large disparity no doubt. But it’s still $4.30 /mile.

Its just 5k seems low and 7500 is about average for me if I was considering it.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post
Large disparity no doubt. But itís still $4.30 /mile.

Its just 5k seems low and 7500 is about average for me if I was considering it.


Applying a cost per mile model as you have it makes little sense on a lease.
Simply consider it the cost of driving that car (based on depreciation aka residual and MF). Adding miles is cheap and simply reduces the residual a bit. The lowest Mercedes lease is 7500 miles but going over is only 25 cents a mile, so no big deal.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:16 PM
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Mercedes dont lease well. Since AMs depreciate so much I would buy a lightly used one and have some equity built into car.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:35 PM
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I looked at both last year. As a Benz owner I had my eye on the GTC coupe immediately it was released. But after a test drive I was left dissapointed for the money (they are AU$360k here). Great drivetrain but felt the steering not as responsive from dead-centre as I'd liked. Also ride felt choppy with the dynamic suspension. (Not sure without). Felt the interior wasn't much of a step up from my C-Class for the price. I could even lift up bits of the flimsy carbon fibre trim with my finger easily. I am waiting to see the update with the digital displays etc. The exhaust note echoed around the in the rear hatch a LOT on this car.

The new Aston Martin is better looking in real life than the AMG GTx. My wife reckons it's miles ahead in that department. Interior-wise it's a step-up from the AMG GTC. Highly customisable with quality leather everywhere - even the headliner if you wish (I prefer Alcantara). Sounds better too - more refined. Same with the ride. Not happy with the wheel selection. Even the forged ones. Not happy with the older tablet display either. But not deal-breaking. Again all this is subjective.
If you want the ability to customise the appearance of the car then you can do just about anything with AM 'Q' department. If you want bonnet scoops - not problem - just ask Q. Want a particular colour from Ferrari - Grigio Titanio - no problem. They'll paint it for you in that colour. At a cost.
Paint finish is excellent compared to the Benz. Much, much less orange peel. However I have concerns over the AM clearcoat - I don't think it's as hard as the Benz clearcoat. PPF will definitely be needed. The front of the bonnet/bumper edge drop will be a target for stone chips for sure.

**Also don't forget the Vantage is just the entry-level model at present - so it's not going to be as quick as the GTC. But that depends if all out speed is your priority especially on the street at these already quick levels. Would wait for a rumoured 'S' version and see if that brings any cosmetic/drivetrain updates too.**

I have some concern over its reliability not just because it's an AM but due to being a new model, so am waiting for the 1st year production cycle to be out of the way.

Initial issues appear to be some door alignments out causing slight contact with the bonnet edge when opened, panel gaps (largely fixed now I think) and one report of the rear diff needing replacement. There was an initial faulty batch of wheels too but they aren't offering that model for sale. So far nothing too major. Owner reports appear to be largely positive. Good luck!
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Old 02-04-2019, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzly111 View Post
The new Aston Martin is better looking in real life than the AMG GTx. My wife reckons it's miles ahead in that department.
Looks are subjective. I think the GTx look better than any Vantage. But I'm not your wife
Originally Posted by grizzly111 View Post
Interior-wise it's a step-up from the AMG GTC. Highly customisable with quality leather everywhere - even the headliner if you wish (I prefer Alcantara).
GTx can also have Alcantara headliner. It can also be packed with leather, not sure what GT car you saw, mine is from head to toe. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by grizzly111 View Post
Sounds better too - more refined.
Again, subjective. I for example never heard someone prefer the sound of a Vantage to one from almost any AMG car.

Originally Posted by grizzly111 View Post
Again all this is subjective.
Indeed!

Originally Posted by grizzly111 View Post
If you want the ability to customise the appearance of the car then you can do just about anything with AM 'Q' department. If you want bonnet scoops - not problem - just ask Q. Want a particular colour from Ferrari - Grigio Titanio - no problem. They'll paint it for you in that colour. At a cost.
Same thing with any AMG, ever heard of the AMG Studio? You can get any color you choose or create your own. At a cost. Same applies to the interior, you can have quilted leather and whatever you fancy.

I think if I were to compare an AM to the GTC, it would be the DB11. I don't think the Vantage, an entry level AM, matches up to any decent spec GTC.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mvb3 View Post
Same thing with any AMG, ever heard of the AMG Studio? You can get any color you choose or create your own. At a cost. Same applies to the interior, you can have quilted leather and whatever you fancy.

I think if I were to compare an AM to the GTC, it would be the DB11. I don't think the Vantage, an entry level AM, matches up to any decent spec GTC.
Performance-wise, Astons will have to be in the $300k range to match a GTS/GTC, etc. No doubt about that. Price-wise of course, the GTC is well below the entry level Vantage. Even though these cars share the same engine, it is a GT vs the AMG models being a sports car.
Btw, In regards to customizing an AMG I think you are too optimistic about MB's ability or interest to do so. The reason while you virtually see none on the street is because they are making it hard and have limited choices. Nowhere close to Porsche or the Brits for that matter
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Performance-wise, Astons will have to be in the $300k range to match a GTS/GTC, etc. No doubt about that. Price-wise of course, the GTC is well below the entry level Vantage. Even though these cars share the same engine, it is a GT vs the AMG models being a sports car.
Btw, In regards to customizing an AMG I think you are too optimistic about MB's ability or interest to do so. The reason while you virtually see none on the street is because they are making it hard and have limited choices. Nowhere close to Porsche or the Brits for that matter
I think the reason we don't see many is because they make it a tad expensive. A custom paint is around 15.000Ä , in some cases that's nearly 10% of the price of the car.

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Old 02-04-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mvb3 View Post
Looks are subjective. I think the GTx look better than any Vantage. But I'm not your wife

GTx can also have Alcantara headliner. It can also be packed with leather, not sure what GT car you saw, mine is from head to toe.

All I can say is that I was ready to put an order in pending the test drive and was left so disappointed. I guess my expectations of Benz's flagship sports car were too high especially given the amount of cash I was going to part with. Really, really wanted to like that AMG as I loved the concept of the GTC.

I have heard of AMG studio before - but didn't realise the extent of customisability? You probably don't know this but 'Q' department have the ability to personalise every aspect for a customer - include commissions for entirely new versions of a car. The Vantage V600 was born in this way from a customer's commission. Anyway, Q customisations are terribly expensive. I was looking at getting the centre console leather-wrapped as I didn't like the standard options but not worth it. If you have time I suggest going onto the AM configurator and you'll see the list of *standard* cost options is far, far greater than any AMG. The 'Q' department take that even further you see. The Vantage I'd spec will need about AU$50k minimum of options. Easy to go to AU$80k+ - and that's excluding anything bespoke from Q.

Regarding the headliner, leather & alcantara options (& their colours even) are both standard cost items. I don't see leather on the AMG configurator - just fabric & alcantara. What I do see is an option for fake 'Artico' leather *cough* for the seats. Just kidding - I do know that's there for the environmetalists/vegans etc. But as I said - AM appeal to a (smaller & more exclusive) market that like to customise their cars to a higher detail. The problem AM face in my opinion is catering for those that demand a more bespoke, luxurious car whilst at the same time appealing to a younger, more performance orientated crowd. I'm both so that's why I guess I expected a little more from Benz for the price which falls into the territory of a lightly-optioned Vantage.

To the OP: ONE MAJOR thing to consider though....is the lack of service network for Aston Martin....

The GTC does not compare to the DB11 which is far more luxurious & comfortable interior wise and a 2+2 GT car. The DB11 competes with the new Bentley Conti GT. Once optioned up, the Bentley Conti GT is significantly more luxurious than the DB11 I will add.

The new Vantage does match up to the AMG GTC - except in outright performance. If you want to track the car GTC is the way to go. BUT I actually found the Vantage more enaging on the road. Plus a more powerful 'S' version or even a V12 is maybe in the works. Manual options perhaps this year (which I'm waiting for!). Don't forget the Vantage is just their entry level spec at present. In fact, here is a video comparison of the AMG GTC vs Vantage:


Take from the video what you will. The video seems to show road noise is better in the Vantage which is true but going over gravel was more noticeable in the wheel arches. I don't agree with him on the interior - the Vantage upgraded seats are seriously epic and once you spec different leather combos the interior really comes alive in my opinion - the metallic leather options look superb.

Last edited by grizzly111; 02-04-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:58 AM
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I only had a quick glance at the video and already noticed that the GTC is a naked base model with standard color, standard seats, standard plastic console, no aero package. Apart from the ceramic brakes, this is the lowest configuration possible!!
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:25 PM
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I know Matt Becker from my Lotus days and was a friend of his dad Roger Becker former head of Lotus Cars.

The very first thing I did to my old Lotus on day two of ownership was to redo the suspension settings [shocks/springs] so that it didn't roll into a corner...

The takeaway I got from this comparison was that my setup GTS without rear wheel steering is a better handling car and with my slight modifications makes it a keeper...

Oh yeah the only person I know that bought this new Aston is a girl...

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Old 02-05-2019, 04:28 AM
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Trying to decide: GT C or R, Vantage, 992 911

I had an Ed1 GT S that my wife and I loved. Other car was a 991.1 911 Turbo S - great combo. Ordered a GT C roadster in mid-2017 but customer svc was so bad that I canceled the order and wound up with a DB11 launch ed. Itís a great GT car but I want to go back to a sports car (other car is now a Gen 2 911 GT3). Iím talking to my M-B dealer again about a 2020 GT C or GT R coupe but itís painful given the ďbuyerís premiumĒ expectations on the R, and the R PRO premiums will be out of sight. Iím in SoCal and there are buyers who will pay $50-100K+ over just to say they did, and theyíre not really gearheads.

Iíve driven three Vantages - a dealer event and two loaners. A buddy and I have done videos (ďAuto FocusĒ YouTube channel) on two Vantages, my DB11 and a DB11 Volante (some of these videos are snoozers, BTW, bring the NoDoz). Also did my GT3 and a borrowed GT3 RS.

The Vantage is compelling. A-M people hint that the engine has more HP/torque than my Ď16 GT S and it feels stronger. One had a great red/black leather interior, there other was a sinister black-on-black with all-Alcantara incl. the dash. Beware that the lease deals offered here with $9,000 in the trunk included 7,500 miles TOTAL for three years. Apparently A-M North America was trying to increase sales because of the IPO (apparently share values slipped after they went public).

From the side, the Vantage does look somewhat truncated at the back (HaHa, near the trunk) but sometimes I think the hood on the AMG GT cars is too long. The Vantage has a 50/50 weight distribution. Suspension settings are stiff (Sport/Sport+/Track). Track is stiffer than ďSportĒ in my GT3. Some have criticized the ZF 8-speed but I like it as long as Iím in Sport or Sport+ (not the lower GT mode) in my DB11. On the Vantage in Track mode, the shifts are more violent (in a good way) than my GT3 (which I totally love) in Sport. Iíve driven the Vantage through a couple of interesting corners, ramps and chicanes and the car feels surprising planted with little intervention from ESC/TC, but since itís not mine, Iíve driven it a notch or two below what Iíd do with my GT3.

Shift paddles are column-mounted but because they are very long, which I like - theyíre easy to find at speed in corners, etc. The tranny stays in manual until you hold the right shift paddle or press the ďDĒ button (I do not like to select drive modes with buttons - look what happened to Edsel). Give me a lever on the console. Problem vs. PDK or the new AMG GT cars that intelligently go back to automatic based on what the driver is doing, Iíve blasted into a corner downshifting say from 8th to 4th, the light changes, I enter the turn and ďblastĒ (lug) out of the corner in 4th, not 2nd because in all the excitement, I forgot to shift down because I thought the light was going to turn red! If I had stopped, the transmission would have dropped to 2nd than 1st.

I recently drove a GT C in my pursuit to try to work a deal and get back to an AMG GT car (sadly, Iím way underwater on my DB11), and I think the Vantage sounds better - so does A-M. And, although the weights are about the same and the Vantage has almost a 40 HP deficit, it feels faster. Maybe itís the gearing, which could be why my MPGs were not so great.

So Vantage? GT R? GT C? And along comes the new 992 911 Carrera 2S. Cheaper than the other cars (about the same as a GT C coupe) and lots of good technology even if less luxurious than the AMGs or Vantage. Speaking of cost. The umbrella in cars Iíve driven is $295! Sheeesh! Looking at inventory here in SoCal, some dealers only have Vantages priced from $194K to $204K. Iím close to an A-M dealer, which was a factor in buying the DB11. (The M-B/AMG dealer is the same close distance in the opposite direction.). I configured a fully loaded GT R (2019) and came in just under $199K. And a nicely optioned 992 911 Carrera 2S is about $164K. Whoa. Iím out of breath. I hope that somewhere in this long message are a few thoughts that will help in othersí decisions.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:35 AM
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Agree with AtTheGlen. New Vantage to my ear sounds better esp with the optional Quad-tip exhaust system. I expected more sound from the GTC with the windows down. I'm a DCT fan but ZF works suprisingly well. Also agree that it does feel stronger than the GTS but this could be because it simply feels more engaging to drive than the Benz. Michelin PSS tires would likely stretch the difference even more. At road speeds there really isn't a lot in it in terms of outright acceleration. Love the big, quality paddles. Very memorable experience.

GT-R is a beast but I wouldn't say no to a V12 DB11 tuned + downpipes - they can put out some big numbers (and big smiles) from what I've seen. I think they look very, very classy especially in metallic grey/silvers.

Have you driven the new DBS Superleggerra by any chance? I haven't but it's on my future radar when I desire a larger GT. It's meant to be one of the best 700HP+ cars reasonable money can buy right now - really excellent.

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Old 02-05-2019, 03:50 PM
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1. the GTC is a sports car and the Vantage is a GT. As a buyer you lean one way or the other IMO.

2. 7500 miles for 3 years is BS. No wonder the lease is so cheap, OP was saying it's 5K/year, which one is the truth?

3. ZF tranny is crap compared to the Speedshift DCT, GT3's PDK-S (superior to the Carrear's base PDK), Lambo's DCT, and Ferrari's DCT. I've owned all 5 transmissions.

4. The 992 Carrera S should not be compared to the AMG GTC or Vantage, it's a tier below. Price/prestige-wise a GT3 is on the same tier. Many reasons to choose the GT3 especially if you want a manual and care about depreciation.

5. The 992's rear looks like ***. Reminds me of bacon and the lightbar is fugly.
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by surfah View Post
5. The 992's rear looks like ***. Reminds me of bacon and the lightbar is fugly.
The AM Vantageís nose looks like *** , and itís rear lightbar reminds me of a narrow strip of bacon too ...
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Gojirra99 View Post

The AM Vantageís nose looks like *** , and itís rear lightbar reminds me of a narrow strip of bacon too ...
Vantage's nose reminds me of a fish with it's mouth open.

Agree on the rear lightbar, hope it's a passing automotive design fad.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Applying a cost per mile model as you have it makes little sense on a lease.
Simply consider it the cost of driving that car (based on depreciation aka residual and MF). Adding miles is cheap and simply reduces the residual a bit. The lowest Mercedes lease is 7500 miles but going over is only 25 cents a mile, so no big deal.
ok so whatís the MF and residual? Curious you didnít include those details.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AMG 17GT View Post


ok so whatís the MF and residual? Curious you didnít include those details.
I get more details when they give us a Vantage for the weekend but its deep winter here. Once I see a work sheet I will post it. What I know is that the residual is well over 60% (62-64% based on miles) which is completely unrealistic on that car so it is a deeply subsidized lease.

Btw, the mentioned 7500 miles total lease by the OP was something they offered with their ridiculous 2500 miles/year lease below $1500 a month. Trying to get people in the door (which seems to be the way virtually every Rolls Royce is leased)
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by surfah View Post
1. the GTC is a sports car and the Vantage is a GT. As a buyer you lean one way or the other IMO.

2. 7500 miles for 3 years is BS. No wonder the lease is so cheap, OP was saying it's 5K/year, which one is the truth?

3. ZF tranny is crap compared to the Speedshift DCT, GT3's PDK-S (superior to the Carrear's base PDK), Lambo's DCT, and Ferrari's DCT. I've owned all 5 transmissions.

4. The 992 Carrera S should not be compared to the AMG GTC or Vantage, it's a tier below. Price/prestige-wise a GT3 is on the same tier. Many reasons to choose the GT3 especially if you want a manual and care about depreciation.

5. The 992's rear looks like ***. Reminds me of bacon and the lightbar is fugly.
I don't get the comments on the leases. Mercedes also offers different rates with different miles/durations. Is this news?
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzly111 View Post
Agree with AtTheGlen. New Vantage to my ear sounds better esp with the optional Quad-tip exhaust system. I expected more sound from the GTC with the windows down. I'm a DCT fan but ZF works suprisingly well. Also agree that it does feel stronger than the GTS but this could be because it simply feels more engaging to drive than the Benz. Michelin PSS tires would likely stretch the difference even more. At road speeds there really isn't a lot in it in terms of outright acceleration. Love the big, quality paddles. Very memorable experience.

GT-R is a beast but I wouldn't say no to a V12 DB11 tuned + downpipes - they can put out some big numbers (and big smiles) from what I've seen. I think they look very, very classy especially in metallic grey/silvers.

Have you driven the new DBS Superleggerra by any chance? I haven't but it's on my future radar when I desire a larger GT. It's meant to be one of the best 700HP+ cars reasonable money can buy right now - really excellent.
Grizzzly111 - thanks for your reply; I agree with your comments. I'm hearing that automakers are tuning the base transmission setting for fuel economy. The ZF is lazy in "Comfort" (the Vantage is not as bad in its "Sport" setting) but to its credit, on the freeway, I can speed up to change lanes without the transmission "seeking" lower gears, and that's OK for driving in that mode. In Sport on the DB11, the gear changes are right there, and more so in Sport+. In the Vantage, Sport+ and Track amp it up quite a bit more which is appropriate. My 991.2 GT3 PDK only has two settings - regular and PDK Sport. In normal mode, PDK is lethargic but since I'm usually using the paddles, I don't notice but if not I had to feel the car lugging. PDK Sport is quick but not harsh going up and down. ZF-8 "haters" might not have driven the new Vantage. I was amazed at how nicely aggressive it was.

I bought the DB11 (a launch edition in Magnetic Silver, which I guess you'd like - it's one of the best colors for the car) in order to have one V12, 600 HP, 200-mph car in my lifetime - and, oh yeah, there is that James Bond thing. The interior is amazing (smells like a leather goods store) and the car is quick but the rear is a little jouncy in high-speed transitions over uneven surfaces.

I did drive a DBS Superleggera during a customer event at the dealer BUT there was a problem with the brakes. They had a serious squeeeeeeellll. I was embarrassed for Aston Martin to drive it as I could not stop without the noise. The car comes with carbon ceramic brakes but it was unlike anything that I've heard with ceramics - sounded like metal-to-metal. The car felt tighter than my DB11 as I understand they went with solid bushings in the rear suspension like the DB11 AMR and Vantage, though I'm not sure of the extent of all the modifications. I do plan to test drive another DBS and the GM said I could borrow a DBS with my buddy to shoot a video for his Auto Focus YouTube channel. I can PM you when we do it within the next 2 or 3 weeks once the SoCal rains have stopped. If money were no object, it would be cool to own one. The dealer has a Tag Heuer Edition DBS Superleggera - it is black on black Alcantara with black wheels and (get this) red-striped tires with the Pirelli logo in red. Unbelieveable! I think the new Bentley Continental GTs looks good and I drove a Euro-spec prototype here at a dealer event a couple of weeks ago. It's heavy and my DB11 felt quicker and more nimble when I jumped back into it.

I'll be posting a reply to "surfah" based on his response to my and others' posts on this subject.
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DIVINE AMG (02-06-2019)
Old 02-05-2019, 08:04 PM
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Wolf when you get the numbers it will dispel a lot of the lease confusion.

If you can lease the Aston at 7500/yr for 1800/month, than yeah that’s a great deal for me at least.
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