Glyn M Ruck

John

Bank 1 = 1, 2, 3 cylinder (fuel door side/passenger side)
Bank 2 = 4, 5, 6 cylinder

P0012 = "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

I think the "A" cam is the inlet cam but I'm not sure - Let me do some more scratching

Glyn M Ruck

John - I confirm that camshaft "A" is the inlet cam

EDIT - BTW - OBDII protocol dictates that Bank 1 always contains cylinder 1

johnand

Glyn, once again, thank you

Now, I am keeping my fingers crossed that fixes it, and it is not a malfunction with the camshaft adjuster.

Anything wrong with going aftermarket? Here is an intermotor brand at Rock Auto for about $50 cheaper than OEM: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,7192

johnand

Glyn, yep I scoured the net and found that info, but couldn't find that same info on A and B.

Glyn M Ruck

I really need to sort out the filing on my computer - I have a hell of a lot of data but finding it can be fun. The cylinder banks I've posted a number of times but they are hidden in obscure threads.

You might well find that the aftermarket spare is made by the OE supplier. The OE part appears to have lasted poorly. For a thing as simple as a hall effect sensor I think I might give it a bash.

You know the old saying - you fit a cheap one & it fails - then keep repeating that. Long term this can get expensive. I might however give it a go. I'd be interested to know whether you can detect any difference in manufacture. Yes - I hope it's not that complex advance/retard mechanism - I somehow doubt it. They have proven reliable as long as people don't fiddle with them.

Glyn M Ruck

I went into the dealership the other day to see my service manager. Some thoughtless bugger had pulled the "C" in the C240 badge off my bootlid (sorry - trunk lid). They had no stock & the darn thing costs US$ 100. He kindly sent me to their panel shop that replaced it FOC.

I asked him about this adjustment US dealers talk of when replacing cam sensors. He did not understand what they were talking about & say's the only thing they ever check is the camshaft static relationship to the crankshaft & that this is obviously not affected by a sensor failure. Inlet cam is chain driven from the crank & then gear coupled to the exhaust cam. I hope for your sake he is correct. My star service manager, Stanley, has moved on to better things at Bentley.

Ah well - you are making me brush up on the M272 series engines which is good.

johnand

According to RM European, the OEM is Bosch. Though, I can't find anyone that carries the Bosch part. As Lilbenz230 pointed out, I can get the Genuine MB part for $166.50, so I may just pony up the few more bucks for that. But, your right, the original didn't last near as long as it should. Though, I see that a lot of MB engines run the same part, and there seems to be more and more of these popping up on the forums as failing prematurely.

Just found the sensor for $116.86 shipped from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor.../dp/B000EQC3PU I am ordering now, we'll see how that works.

LILBENZ230

Does this affect the way the car runs? I know it can't be good for it but I was just wondering if you could tell a difference.

johnand

In my case, no. The car is running perfect. Just want to get it taken care of before it affects the way the car runs.

LILBENZ230

Oh absolutely. I was just wondering if it did make a noticeable difference.

johnand

OK, so I finally got a chance to replace the sensor and wanted to report here. The Intermotor brand sensor that I bought from Amazon is indeed the OEM (Bosch) part, so I saved a bucketload over getting the MB part. Here is a pic comparing them:





It was super easy to replace, all that is needed is an E8 socket, (External 8mm Torx) and a ratchet. There 1 bolt and it is tricky because of some kind of vacuum valve that makes it hard to get the socket straight on the bolt. New sensor has O-ring installed, so make sure to coat the O-ring with fresh motor oil before installing. Here is a pic of where this sensor is located. Notice the sensor is removed in this pic:



I was getting the CEL every day or every other day, within the 1st 2 miles of driving from start. I replaced the sensor over a week ago and no CEL now. I also noticed smoother idle, and improved throttle response. I did no adjustment through STAR. Just replaced the sensor and reset CEL code before starting.

Glyn M Ruck

Thanks for the report back John. So my SM was not BS ing me. Pleased you saved the bucks - same darn part!!!!!!

W203E35

+1

Thanks John

I got this message twice. Only when engine is real cold. I got a check engine and then it went away.

Is this a serious problem? Engine runs fine and no noise.

Thanks

johnand

Karo,

This appears to becoming a common issue with the M272 engine, as time goes by. In most cases it doesn't cause any running/performance issues, just a CEL. Yes, mine happens mostly when it is cold 1st thing in the morning. Typically it is not a serious issue, just a minor annoyance, but mine did get worse as time went by.

Glyn M Ruck

I wonder how many trumped up charges the dealers rake in for BS setting/adapting?

johnand

Damn, got the P0012 code again

So, what are the chances the new sensor failed in 4K miles?

P0012 is the intake cam sensor on the passenger side as Glyn helped me determine.

This is my 1st step I plan to do to troubleshoot:

1)Swap the passenger side intake and exhaust cam sensors to see if the problem follows the sensor.

Some thoughts if it isn't the sensor:

It appears that MB sells new pins and gaskets for the connector. What are the chances the connector is faulty? Has anyone ever replaced pins and gaskets? I assume, you cut the oil pins off and crimp on new connectors?

The magnet is the next logical part and it is cheap ~$30 and easy to replace.

The camshaft solenoid is the one that has me scratching my head. The solenoid/plunger is inside the camshaft adjusters. It has various oil passages, and the magnet controls the position of this solenoid and then oil flows through the various passages of this solenoid/plunger and adjust the camshaft timing through the camshaft adjusters. If I pull off the magnet, does the camshaft solenoid, just pull straight out the front of the engine? If not, do I have to remover the valve cover and remove the camshaft and/or dismantle the adjuster to replace the solenoid?

LILBENZ230

That sucks.. It is possible that you simply got a faulty sensor, but I'd think that would be highly unlikely. This doesn't make sense.. I wish I could be of more help. I'll be tuned in to see the resolution. This is becoming the Achilles heel of the M272 and thankfully has (so far) been an inexpensive fix.

Glyn M Ruck

Damn John - Not having much luck - You know - Infant mortality syndrome - It might be the new sensor. Diagnosis 101 always makes me go back to the last things that were touched.

I like your idea of swapping out banks as this is an easy check. I have no better ideas.

I hope it's not a damn intermittent connection. They can be such a pain to diagnose.
Good luck

W203E35

Mine use to come up everyday (mostly in the morning when it was cold). Now the weather in Los Angeles warmed up a bit and I don't get this anymore. I wonder why cold weather will affect the CAM Shaft position sensor?

Glyn M Ruck

And LA does not exactly get cold compared with parts of Europe

johnand

Mine too, mostly when cold.

johnand

Thanks Matt and Glyn for the encouragement.

I swapped the left and right bank intake sensors and reset the code. Now, I play the waiting game.

I did learn some more since yesterday. The camshaft solenoid/plunger is easy to replace. Just pull the magnet, remove the REVERSE Thread retaining nut, and it comes right out.

MB EPC has a note under the part number for the camshaft control magnet stating to refer to DTB s-b-03.30/08c. Though, I couldn't find that bulletin in my STAR DVD. Karo, could you do me a favor and use STAR/DAS when you get a chance and pull up that DTB and post it?

Glyn M Ruck

Found same on solenoid/plunger - that's a relief! That bulletin could be interesting

W203E35

Sorry I didn't see this until you PMed me. Let me see what I can find in STAR/DAS

W203E35

John, I couldn't find anything on the DTB. I looked in STAR and even WIS. I feel bad because I want to be able to help you but I can't find it.