With respect - I have run a race team - One season of racing is in operating hours bugger all compared with on road service - in your American language - do the math!!!!! The measure is fuel burned and seen by the engine and air through the engine. Distance travelled means nothing in this regard although on a race track even the distance is minor compared with road service. In track racing your filtration only has to be good enough to keep large particles of matter from getting into the engine & doing damage. Engine life expectation is limited and will see rebuild required due to other stresses. Long term abrasive wear in on road use due to poor filtration is another matter

 

Stock > K&N.

Wow, 1hp! I love spending **** loadsa dough on MAF sensors to gain an amazing 1HP! its 0.000000000000000001% faster off the line now!

 

 

OK heres some reason here, I believe quite a bit of folks have descided to use K&N .......hence those who have experienced the most negative effects I guess MAF replacement- not cheap would it be saying to much that all those who were effected would have filed class action by now? I do think the K&N the company that is would be in lible........unless theres some secret fine print disclaimer pointing out the use of after market products, but even with that hmmm I do really think lawyers would be involved........just my 2cents...........

 

i just showed you the link where the guy dynoed 8whp just from K & N. Assuming a 20% drivetrain loss that 10hp to the crank. Considering most people paid $30-40k for the first 200hp, i think 10hp for less than $100 is a pretty good deal.

Also keep in mind no all C-classes have MAF sensors. The c32 has a MAP sensor, which is a lot less sensitive to a over oiled filter.

 

No, actually, Buellwinkle showed a gain of HP, but his car is pullied.

Again, big fan here, have run lots of miles on my K&N.

 

a k&n will NEVER cause ANY problems with a maf. however, a user that does not know how to PROPERLY oil the filter.....well, that's another story entirely.

i've had a cold air intake on my focus, with a k&n filter for over 150k miles with no problems. as part of a tuneup i did at 100k, i cleaned the maf- outside of that- i have never once touched the maf and all is well.

 

NOT ANOTHER OILY FILTER THREAD!?!??!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:beatdea dh:beatdea dh:v iolent::violen t:

 

I've had a K&N filter on a MB I've owned in past and did not see any real advantage to having it. I would take the advice of George Murphy as he will not steer you wrong. My suggestion would be to take the money you would spend on a K&N and join the MBCA as it would be better spent. I've been a club member for over 10 yrs. and the benefits are great and too many to completly list. Most dealerships will give you a 10 - 20 percent discount on parts and store items. The bimonthly magazine is worth the $47 / yr. dues alone. One of the neatest things is the membership loyalty reward program. I recently purchased a pre-owned MB and got $750 on a gift card for parts / services at any MB dealership. Those who purchase new cars get $1500. To get the reward however, you have to have been a member for at least 1 yr. Anyone who drives a Benz owes it to themselves to join.

 

+1! The magazine is so killer! My barber wants a subscription & he doesnt even own a Benz!

 

Heres a better idea, forget the subscription don't buy a Benz.......you ll save alot of money that way especially when your warranty is out........retrospecitvely if I would have known I was buying a show piece vs a masterful engineered machine, I would have went with a BMW, Honda, or just about any other import that doesnt have CPS, MAF, Electrical, and all the other crazy problems that Ive had and others on this board....what a joke, my car new was about 40K with options, and after about 50k of miles started the issues, now my Honda accord? hmmm same year as the Benz new about 18K problems- NONE!!! and oh yeah ive heard the stories about the Benz is so much more sophisticated with state of the art electronics systems......well other luxury autos have the same systems without all the bugs.......so why buy Mercedes?

 

Please go buy a BMW, er, maybe a 6 Series like you unfairly compared with a C Class on another thread. You would then own one of the ugliest cars on the market, be severely out of pocket, understand what really expensive motoring is all about after all the trouble you would have - then you could gripe endlessly on the BMW forum of choice

 

jhartmac:

Then you would have no reason to hang out on this forum and moan. You can buy a rolling coffin and save a few bucks but see what its like when (or if ) it hits 250,000 miles. I've had one Benz that cost me about $14,000 (out of pocket) over 11 yrs of ownership and 265,000 miles. Did I buy another one? You bet I did! Why? Safety, comfort, handling, fuel savings and overall looks and long term durability.

 

yeah i understand how you feel...coming from japanese cars. I couldn't understand why my 6yr old mercedes had more electrical problems then my 14yr old integra.

If mercedes really wanted to increase there reliability today, they could. All they have to do, is just use japanese suppliers for there electronics. Bosh, valeo and siemens make unreliable parts, hence why i think a lot of recent mercedes have suffered.

But at the same time, i love the styling, power, and comfort of my c32 so i deal with it. Unfortunately, the w203's are the victim of extreme cost cutting in order to keep there pricing within a certain delta of lexus. If you check out the w204's, you noticed a huge improvement in quality.

if you don't like dealing with all the headaches, then i agree a german car isn't for u.

 

Well said! - When it comes to the electronics the Japanese manufacturers frequently adopt a less complex approach to achieve the same result and do it most effectively, sometimes of course the converse applies such as Toyota/Lexus solid state airflow device that replaces a hot wire MAF which is a somewhat crude device. Reliable electronics assembly is a great Japanese strength. The Germans will always tell you that they are pushing the technological envelope and sometimes launch immature technologies such as the disastrous E Class braking system from Bosch - this claim is sometimes true & sometimes not.

One should remember that the W203 was the first car that Mercedes did not fully roadtest prior to production & depended on computer simulation - man that cost them and us dearly. With the W204 they went back to tried and proven on-road testing (see my comments in this regard on another thread) and quality & reliability of the W204 will prove this.

I have the greatest respect for Toyota/Lexus & Honda/Acura but don't enjoy the driving experience the way I do with a Benz. If I were to go back to a Japanese vehicle it would be a Japanese assembled Honda - they must be the best screwed together vehicles on the planet!

Will I buy a W204? - damn right I will but my W203 has only done a trouble free 45,000Kms

 

its because bosh makes crap..lol..jk. I heard the seat control modules are made by siemens...if thats true i'm not a fan of them either.

 

Bosch generally do not make crap - That's like the world saying that all Americans are stupid - neither are fair comments

 

Ok I've owned mercedes, lexus and honda....Yes Im still driving 3 cars I would say each of the cars they have their own good side and bad side.. I have no problem with the K&N filter so far on my benz...

 

[QUOTE=jhartmac;2968817]Heres a better idea, forget the subscription don't buy a Benz.......you ll save alot of money that way especially when your warranty is out........retrospecitvely if I would have known I was buying a show piece vs a masterful engineered machine, I would have went with a BMW, Honda, or just about any other import that doesnt have CPS, MAF, Electrical, and all the other crazy problems that Ive had and others on this board....what a joke, my car new was about 40K with options, and after about 50k of miles started the issues, now my Honda accord? hmmm same year as the Benz new about 18K problems- NONE!!! and oh yeah ive heard the stories about the Benz is so much more sophisticated with state of the art electronics systems......well other luxury autos have the same systems without all the bugs.......
Dude!! Such a vitriolic rant! U sound just like other ricey/bimmerlovers(I had a lemon once that was a bmw,but I sure didnt just "deal w/it"!) Y r u even on the forum? Bizarre... And ur still driving a Mercedes-Benz because...?

 

my experience with bosh is based on there crappy e46 hid projectors and there defective intercooler pumps for the c32.

I will revise my statement and say there automotive products are crap. I heard some bad things about there spark plugs, but i never used them before to confirm.

Mercedes needs to do what Ghosen did with nissan when Renult took them over. Back in the late 90's nissan had horrible reliability compared to other japanese cars because of bad suppliers. Ghosen went to these suppliers basically told them to shape up or ship out, which he did. He closed relationships with some suppliers dating back all the way back to WWII.

Now Nissan's reliablity is considerably higher then before Ghosen leadership and there more profitable.

I'm sure Mercedes relationship with valeo, bosh, and siemens probably dates back to decades. But the auto market is a lot more tougher then it use to be and these suppliers need to step up or be replaced.

I agree with the other posters comments that if paid $60k for my c32 new and had all these problems i would be pissed to. I bought it used for fairly cheap, so i cant really complain.

 

You are right, Carlos Ghosn did a fantastic job at Nissan - these things are all about people at the end of the day - Our Cs and certain Es were built at a time that Jurgen Schrempp told his company that they were selling cars that were over designed & engineered for the price they could get in the market & that he wanted shorter design life cycles to be competitive. Everyone was placed under pressure to cut costs including suppliers - we live with that legacy although my car was fortunately built once many of the problems had been overcome & has been trouble free. The W204 was designed tested & built the old Merc way as it is their most important car and it shows whether you like the vehicle or not. This has been part of the learning curve for Benz - never before did you have to wait until a Merc was in mature production to enjoy a trouble free one.

I have the greatest of respect for Jurgen Schrempp and knew him well as Tech Director and later MD of MBSA - after the Euclid disaster in NA. Jurgen would have taken that company to greater heights than he did if it were not for a pain in the butt board in Germany that scuttled his efforts in China with FAW and messed with his every decision. He was right about most things - problems lay in the implementation. Buy yourself a W204 & I believe you will have little cause for complaint.

I live in a market where people can't wait to get Nippon Denso, Magnetti Marelli, FoMoCo, A C Delco, Mopar & other crap off of their cars and replace them with Bosch. Robert Bosch products are generally excellent & we have never seen a problem with their plugs here. My Dad bought my Mom a new Alfa a couple of years back and the first thing he did was replace all critical electrics with Bosch - starter motor, alternator etc. Heaven forbid the Lucas crap on my Jag. Apart from satisfaction with their automotive products almost all appliances in my house are Bosch & great.

When it come to the Mercedes Benz plant in East London here in South Africa they are quick to jump on any supplier that lets the side down and maybe that's the difference. Cars built here are about 47% local content by weight and the only real problems we had with the W203 were castor arm bushes & leaking cam sensors on the M271. Both of which were sorted very quickly. New American W204s come from here so hopefully you will enjoy a better experience. In early production there were a few finish issues such as wrinkles in the plastic fuel flap from Germany etc. but they were remedied very quickly.

 

yeah i understand your point. Mercedes can lowball all they want, but at the end of the day its the supplier that R & D's, manufacturers and is in charge of individual quality control of that part.

The w204 is still too new to determine how reliable they really are. The car itself feels built better, but only time will tell how reliable they really are.

I also had bosch hid ballasts, they were twice the size, took up more amps, noiser and took longer to ignite then my panasonic ballasts i bought later.

I worked with bosh hid projectors from a 2005 bmw m3. Compared to other hid projectors made by stanley, hella and even valeo, there cut off was poor and beam width was poor as well.

I'm just saying that my opinion of the company, based on the few experiences i had with bosh parts compared to parts made by other manufacturers.

Just like nissan, when Ford took over jag, they did a good job improving there reliability by using Ford suppliers and buying power. Some say it was cost cutting by ford, but at the end of the day they improved jag's reliability and cost. It was sad ford couldn't see the fruits of all there hard work after seeing the success of the Jag XF.

As for Alfs, come on...people don't buy alfs to take them from place to place. They buy alfs to look stylish the few times the car actually works...

If you can deal with pains of owning a alf, I give you props..lol.

Oh yeah..thread jack for the win..:

 

We will agree to differ. We are both entitled to our own opinions. Nobody outside America thinks that Ford improved Jaguar & the XF was designed in the UK with some input from Ford - mainly paying the bills. Everything Aston & Jag took out of the Ford parts bin was crap. I'm pleased to see that Aston have engineered the majority of it out. No one wants to own an Aston with a Ford Bantam ignition lock & key!

In fact most outside America agree with the Chinese - "the American auto makers make such crap that we can learn nothing from them, we want European and Japanese technology" - and the Chinese don't like the Japanese - the Manchurian conflict has never been forgotten.

Lee Iacocca was right all those years ago. No one listened. The American auto industry is on it's knees and deserves to be because it makes crap. That is why Toyota is the largest, most profitable Motor Company in the world with 8 to 10 times the market capitalisation of GM.

By the way I owned 6 Alfas in a row in my youth and they were not that bad - Required some attention but then I was happy to provide it. Today I don't want to open the hood. The less one fiddles with the modern vehicle and the less time they spend at the dealership where some hamfisted, ignorant mechanic can bugger them up - the more reliable they are

 

I bought a benz because it was German manufacturing, same as BMW, same as Volkswagon, German engineering was the greatest in the world since WWII, does anyone here know that history? I mean the history of german engineering? Japanese have stepped up and surpassed other manufacturers and did you foget they also make the higer end Acura? I guess they arent too sophisticated either? Maybe a bunch of knuckle dragging cars compared to the Mercedes. Unlike some of you I don't have money to just BLOW into the wind with stupid fixes that shouldnt be happening. Heres a news flash, MB does not have any secret squirrel electronics, or secret features that other luxury vehicles don't. So they use incorrect vendors? Do I have to pay for that? They don't test drive the prototypes- Should I have to pay for that? Are you all joking? Why does MB not have real recalls? Because they don't need to, people just dont give a crap and like to pay for bugs that were never worked out on the drawing board. Why am I ON THE FORUM? I OWN ONE, WHY DO I STILL OWN ONE? Heres a note for you, as soon as I get it WORTHY enuff to trade Yes I will be doing that. I bought a benz because it had the most safety features, styling and I REALLY THOUGHT reliability I didn't even question it, restrospectively I should have did my homework like I do anything else before I purchase. I STILL like the Benz but why would I be stupid enuff to get another? I guess Im the poor man on the block here and don't like getting taken advantage of, some of you die hard benz fans need to have your car go thru the crap AFTER the warranty is up and see how fun it is then, until then I ll quit stating the facts on here about why its junk and let you live in the fantasy, and oh yeah do you really think if I buy a BMW I ll be on their forums with this stuff? .....................I doubt that...........No NEVER BEEN A F'IN BMW fan till now................

 

I'm not ford fan by any means, but i always try to give credit where credit is due. Both Aston Martin, jaguar and a lot of other british car manufacturers were poorly managed and were unreliable compared to there foreign competitors. Thats was most of them are now own by foreign companies like mercedes, bmw, and even proton.

Ford took aston martin from a loss to a decent profitable automaker before they sold them. Jaguar was on a smilar path with the success of the jaguar xf.

As for Toyota, there a completely different animal since they have more money then most Japanese banks and up until two years ago they use to
R & D and produce 90% of there own components in house at a cheaper price then most suppliers. Thats changed last few years, as you noticed there more recalls from Toyota as they outsource more.

I'm more of a Honda fan, but i think a lot of people are more overly critical of Ford and GM then other automakers. As for American technologies, there a lot of American suppliers that supply components for Japanese and European automakers. Actually there's going to be a larger push to use more American suppliers due to the exchange rate and European automakers building plants in the US. The Ford 'Sync is actually noted as one of the more innovative features thats come from the auto industry in the last couple of years.