reliability for the C230 Coupe??
 

Hi all!

My name is Beth and I love the c230. I was all set ot buy it, but then I starting looking at Consumer Reports. While the car did well on reliability tests, it's not really comparable to the Acura RSX.

(The reason that I care so much about this is that I just went through the a Lemon Law case with VW and I never, ever want to see a dealership's service dept. again. My car was in the shop 55 days out of 18 months.)

So, I thought I would throw out this issue to see what people have to say about it.

Please make me feel better about the reliability issues with this car. And please also give me reasons to buy it.

Thanks in advance! ;)

Gee wiz Beth don't take this personally but ...

Various posts have been written about car A versus car B and I for one am getting tired of it. Go test drive both and buy which one you like. I don't see why any of us should bother to convince you of anything. Its your money so do what you like.

Hey!
 

Can't you just stay on Edmund's? :D

Beth, I have to unfortunately tell you that you'll get no argument from me as far as the reliability of the ccoupe vs. RSX. But, as you found out, the cccoupe will do better than VW products.

It's a trade-off. I traded a little less reliability for a car that I view as a better car, all things considered.

As Hugh said of my comments on Edmunds, the ccoupe's stick is much better after a couple of months than at the onset, though not as good as Honda's.

If you never want to visit a service dept., I'd suggest public tranny or a Cannondale. All new cars are so electrical system-driven that it's unavoidable.

Beth,
look at it this way, if you buy the coupe and it spends a lot of time in the shop, at least you will get a MB loaner car to drive. :D

I bought a 2000 Focus and had 7 isolated problems. Each one never being resolved first time.

I was warned off from going lemon, which I wish I had done day 1. I went back for purnishment but apart from the dash cutting out of power I have no more problems with it. I am going to sell because I am not preparted to risk having it after warranty.

Therefore I decided to buy MB for quality and reliability. Also my wife has refused to ever go to a service centre again so the long service interval is also a seller.

MB will also keep it's value. Not to mention that an MB styles with age. Acura is going to look outdated in 3 years let alone 10.

You get a lot for relatively little with the c230.

Nathan

Why pay 25K for a Honda Civic
 

That basicly summs up the whole issue but you should drive them and decide for yourself. I would never buy a Japanese car but thats just me. The less people that have C230s the better for me.

you can't beat acura for reliability (unless you get a lexus :D)...

but the sum of the car is greater than its reliability. i considered the RSX but i feel i'm too old for it now. i like the CL very much though i still got the merc. (the acura cl, not the merc cl... ;))

reasons not to buy it
 

I have a different approach when shopping for cars. My priority is performance (within my budget, how many hp can I get for the money I spend). Then go drive the car and see which one I like better. weight the cons and pros. Usually it comes down to 1-3 cars that I really want and trying to make th decision.

IMO, if you need other people to give you reasons to buy the car, maybe it's not for you.

What?
 

pixmation

I can't really take your opinion very seriously when there are a ton of cars with more hp and performance for $25.5K, so why did you really get the car.

should have gone into details
 

Notorious,

First, I wanted a RWD car. I should probably rename the "performance" into RWD. Also I have had bad experience with Honda so I will not buy another Honda or Acura no matter how reliable they are. As far as I know, only S2000 and NSX are RWD.

WRX gives me more hp and cheaper MSRP and 4WD, test drove it, didn't like the turbo lag and I prefer 2 doors over 4 doors. But when I get rid of the VW GTI, WRX probably will be my next choice.

Also tested drove 325ci, I like the handling of the BMW, but a little under power and more expensive. So I went for the C230k which has more standard features and newer body style. there are too many 3 series here in LA. Ultimately would like to get the M3 to replace the C230k 4-5 years from now.

Pixmation...Hmm for the money and horsepower why did you buy your car. Why not just a Camaro Z28. Lots of power for cheap... For Beth, I think Mercedes is a different class from a Acura. You just cant compare. Also, I can be honest I had my C36 in the shop for 32 days at one time, and usually 2 weeks to a month every time I had a problem. But MB always give you nice rentals so I enjoyed the switch. I got a nice brand new Jimmy with 4x4 to play with then a Olds Auora. I never really complained I knew that my car was rare and parts would have to come directly from Germany. Thats what I expect. No cars are perfect and I doubt there is a car out there that will keep you out of the service dept.

sorry about missing all the details, should say RWD, handling and no american cars, personally there are very few american cars appeal to me. started out wrong in my previous post.

Hmmm, if reliability is what you seek, you should look into a nice Toyota Corolla or Toyota Matrix. Even Honda and MB senior management has stated at various times at Toyota was the company to beat for quality.

I too am getting a little tired about these comparisons, so my tactic is simple. I will recommend a practical car OTHER than the MB. This is for selfish reasons. I'd rather keep the C230 as exclusive and rare as possible. ;)

Let see the 325ci is a faster car than the C230 coupe....but you are right, itis much more expensive compared to the C230. The 3 series is about 3 to 4K overpriced!

A fully loaded 325ci is about 36K!

Acura RSX Reliability
 

Hi galaxygrrl,

I'm not sure that the NEW Acura RSX is as reliable as 'older' or 'previous' Honda cars. The new i-Vtec engine and the new 6-sp transmission has been causing some sever problems for new RSX owners. It seems that the car can be shifted into 2nd gear easily when you are trying to shift to 4th. The result of this error is a blown engine. The Demo RSX-S car in the Acura dealership had such a problem when someone test drove it. As a result, I was NOT allow to test drive the RSX at all when I was considering to buy this car.

For more information regarding RSX problems.... visit this site

http://www.clubrsx.com/

Go to the MESSAGE FORUMS, MESSAGE BOARD, and look for a heading called "PROBLEMS & SOLUTIONS"

The Problems are extensive... and there are 14 pages of problems and complaints.

So.. just because Honda has a history of producing reliable products does not mean that ALL their new/future products will be as reliable as the current or previous products. If you want to Purchase the Acura RSX, my suggestion is to wait for at least 2 years until all the little (BIG) problems are sorted out first.

Henry

The problems with the RSX's and their blown engines is not a reliability issue. It's an issue with the driver not knowing how to drive a 6 speed manual with closely spaced shifter gates. It's not Acura's fault. Most of the people who've reported their engines blown are A) between 18 and 24, B) driving their first 6 speed, and in some cases C) driving their first MANUAL!!! How can the manufacturer be held responsible because the owner doesn't know how to handle the machine :confused: ? If you blow your engine because you downshifted improperly and overrevved your engine, it's NOT a reliability problem. And I don't think Acura should have replaced a single engine due to this. Toyota had the same EXACT problem when the last generation Celica's came out. The same types of people were blowing their engines. They just didn't know how to drive it correctly, and were too busy trying to race the Civic with all the stickers on it next to them.

Sorry, but an inexperienced driver is not the manufacturers fault. That's like people suing gun makers because they didn't know how to handle a firearm and blew their foot off. It's not their problem. Take responsibility for you own actions.

Ed

my integra was rock solid, it was a 98 gsr

the rsx has not done nearly as well as far as reliability is concerned. i sometimes post on clubrsx (since i considered the car) and the problems board is chock full of issues

some i remember off my head

1. 1-2 notchy shifting
2. blown engines
3. rear well guards cracking
4. incorrect bose sub installation
5. srs warning light issues
6. excessive oil consumption

and thats just off the top of my head.

face it quality generally moves in cycles. you become the leader, you slack, someone takes your place, and the cycle continues. MB was, then honda, now toyota, then who knows. maybe hyundai??? :)

greg

Next month, when my C230K comes in, my '99 Hyundai will be missed. I put 50,000 miles on it without a day in the shop.

I agree with your premise, but a 3-4 shift is the same regardless of whether you have a 5- or 6-spd. I've driven many manuals, and I just can't see how you can "accidentally" go from 3rd to 2nd. If people were doing an accidental 6-3 instead of 6-5 I could see that.

I could be wrong about this (and I probably am :)), but in a 5 speed, if you shift into N, and let the shift center it self, isn't it normally between 3 and 4? If so, on a 6 spead with Reverse on the left of 1st gear, could the center position be between 1 and 2? If so, then by pulling down from third without controlling the left and right movements, it could be possible to shift into 2nd from third by mistake?

Just a theory. I remember when downshifting on my 5 speed, you could just pull straight down, and the shift would go left, and into 4th almost on it's own.

Any thoughts??

You're right about being wrong. :D

As you said in the second part, if you put it in neutral and let it find its way, it'll go to between 3 & 4. It makes downshifting into 3 or 4 a hell of a lot easier than guessing your way through.

Ed's right - user error is a bad thing. Does anyone remember "sudden unintended acceleration"?

So much for my theory!! :D

Except for the theory I listed, I can't understand how someone could shift from 3rd to 2nd unintentionally! I've never ever had that problem, and I've driven all different kinds of vehicles with short shifts, long shifts,...

I think the explanation of "sudden unintended acceleration" was "I was pushing the 'brake' as hard as I could". Of course, we know that the manufacturer was to blame for switching that darn break pedal from the right side to the left and not telling them!

Ed,

I am not aware that the Celica had similar problems.... shifting into 2nd and blowing engines. Do current Celicas suffer from the same issues still? or has Toyota rectified that problem??
Personally I think its a problem if the transmission can be easily mis-shifted in 2nd when you are trying to shift to 4th. I had no problems when I drove the Celica... although I thought the 6spd was a little notchy. Pulling the shift knob straight down from neutral Always put you on 4th gear.... no matter which cars I've driven... whether on the Supra TT, Acura NSX, or my C230 coupe. To ACCIDENTLY put the car in 2nd gear, don't you have to push the shift knob a little to the 'left' and pull down..?
I think the only car that I had a problem driving was my 1969 Porsche 911T. It took me several days to learn how to shift on that car without grinding any gears.

heheh.. once (many many years ago) I had this guy show me that he can slow the car down by using the car's engine alone without pressing the brakes... so He shifted from 4th to 2nd.. the engine revved up to redline.... and slowed the car down (I thought he was crazy).... anyways.. his car still runs...
This was on a 1985 Celica gts. I had the 1986 Celica Gts at the time.

As with your Gun analogy.... I would consider a gun to have a problem if the Trigger is so sensitive that a very LIGHT pressure on the trigger will fire the gun. I think that would make the gun more 'unsafe'... not that any gun is safe in the first place....
:)

Oh yeah. The first really noticable instance of that great American tendency to blame whatever is handy, rather than acknowledging an honest mistake/user error. Now we have the Explorer/Firestone fiasco to add to the seemingly endless "song of stupidity".

Yeah, it was the cars' fault that I'm stupid! That's the ticket!

Beth

Ill try not to get off course here and teach you how to shift a car. I had a 2000 BMW Z3 for almost 2 years and it was in the shop every few months for some minor problem. I traded it for the C230 because I did not want to deal with the BMW service dept anymore, their attitude was not the greatest. They were more interested in getting me to fill in excellent on the survey than they were in fixing it right the first time. My 2 week C230 has already been in the shop for 2 days due to a loose shock and suspension parts. But this dealer is in another league compared to where I brought my BMW. I was told by a longtime mercedes fan, never buy a new car, all cars have minor problems and a new owner is going to have to live thru them. A mercedes will last for many years and hundreds of thousands of miles. If you like the car then buy it and don't worry about what might happen.

hmmm minor quirks.... hehehe who cares.

my dealership has m, e, c, and slk loaners.

i consider it a free upgrade when it has to go into service :)

greg

I also had a BMW and the service dept wasnt very good. They never fixed my problems and they LIED. I changed my oil 500 miles before a major service with Kendall GT2 oil which is a higher performance oil. It is recommended for more turbo type cars that need more frequent oil changes rather than Mobil 1 full synthetic which people leave a bit longer in the system. Anyways, the oil is bluish greenish color. When I got my car back the checked the dip stick and it was still blue. I called the dealer and they told me they did a oil change. I asked what they use and they said castrol which is a yellowish straw color. If they didnt change my oil what else did they not change. They told me that after 30 miles my oil can change color since its been used...yeah right...to blue? I dont think so. So i dont trust BMW dealers. DONT SERVICE YOUR BMW AT NORTH HOLLYWOOD BMW.

Also, my friend did damage his piston on his Type R when racing it by putting it in 2nd instead of 4th. So i know it happens when people race...can you believe they wouldnt let me test drive a new Celica when I went in with my C36. I went with my friend who was looking for a car and he bought an integra GSR instead. DONT BUY FROM DOWNTOWN TOYOTA.

I know you've already gotten a response that the 3-4 gate is the "neutral" position with (I believe) any 5- or 6-spd. Just to help further, the "reverse" position which, like you said, is to the left of 1st, is more like a 4th gate which you access by lifting the shifter. So, in normal driving, there are only 3 gates on the 6-spd, just like a typical 5-spd. 1-2, 3-4, 5-6.

THANKS!
 

Hi all!

I just wanted to thank everyone for your constructive comments!

It really helped me think through the reasons I want this car, and the fact that the benz dealership is reasonable about loaners (as opposed to the VW dealership that sent me to a rental car place that rented me Dawoos) only helps.

It seems the bottom line is before the warrenty runs out, I'll get nice loaners if I have problems, and afterwards if the car is in the shop a lot, I can just sell it and since the resale value is high, which works in my favor.

Thanks again

Beth

Re: reliability for the C230 coupe??
 

(LONG, Sorry) IMO,

VW-to-Mercedes: Makes sense!

VW-to-Acura: Doesn't make sense!

Trade laterally or Trade up. Don't get me wrong, Acura's are good cars. In high school I had every VR6 (Corrado, Jetta, GTI) that came out in that era. The rest of my "ricey" friends drove Integras & Civics. While Acura's are quick and nible, their speed has a very light feeling; kind of like a rabbbit. VW's, on the other hand, had a very strong feel - like a horse. Well built German engine, solid shifter, combined with a smooth, consistent clutch was always a winner when compared to their Japanese counterparts.

Moving on to a Benz brings in new changes: Service, "ensured" reliability, and reputable car quality. And don't forget about the MB loaners you get to drive when your car is in for service. There is also an intrinsic value associated with buying a Benz. Sure there are many cars out there that are priced less and may perform better, but what about the pride in owning a Benz? When I visit my parents in California, I always drive around my dad's 360. Sure, highly modified Supras always flex on me and try to race (Some of them would probably beat me too). But it doesn't matter, I just say to myself, "Let them beat me, who cares anyway i'm in a dam 360!"

I hope this totally biased opinion helps!:)

Not to beat a dead horse, but as far as the RSX engines blowing up, here is the main reason why. Watch this video and see what Speed Racer does to his own car...

RSX Misses shift

Now, you tell me, how in the hell is Acura supposed to be held responsible for what this idiot did?

But my Benz is still better! :D

Ed

Here's what I think is the latest, greatest info on our W212 from Consumer Reports. Love 'em or hate 'em, CR is a source for long-term reliability data. Interestingly enough, their conclusion that our W212 is "pretty good" (and particularly the 2012) matches that of TrueDelta (RIP). https://www.truedelta.com/Mercedes-B...-186,2010-2013

Semi-off topic, but certainly related: It's surprisingly difficult to get a consensus definition of automotive "reliability." The auto press (and award community) alternatively defines / confines it to the first 60 or 90 days of ownership, first year or multiple years. My advice is to check the source's definition before getting hot and bothered.


Attachment 440709

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Just the 2012 W212 from CR and TrueDelta...

Attachment 440711

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