ROCK1965

I am curious if anyone has ever tried the Water4Gas mod on their C240. I have been reading about this and see many mixed reviews that it works or doesn't work and am not sure either way if it is true or not.

I have read that it uses the Hydrogen gas from water to aid in making the car run more efficently thus burning less gas, increasing mileage.

Please don't bash me but has anyone tried this, thought about it or has more information regarding the real truth behind this?

I really get poor gas mileage on my C240 (15 -16 mpg) and am just looking for alternatives.

JLD2k3

I have considered trying the kit on the C320. The kit uses the electricity from the battery to reverse polarity on the H20 so that it makes H-H0, which basically reduces the amount of octane needed to make the right combustion mix, thereby using less fuel.

Now, how is it you are only getting 15-16 mpg on a 240? Are you driving uphill both ways in the snow? I got 23 on mine over the course of 9 months.

ROCK1965

I always got poor gas mileage. I drive locally most of the time and on flat land. I am in Miami and it is hot here. I use my A/C half of the time I drive (I like driving with the windows down). My average local speed is 40 MPH and I pretty much stick to it. I have a 6 speed manual transmission and do not push the car. I am about to hit 78K miles and the car is maintained well.

I have not clue for the poor gas mileage. I have read that there are so many factors for poor mileage and looking for alternatives. Water4Gas is an interesting inexpensive way to increase mileage if it works, with me expensively damaging my car!

advans

change your spark plugs!

I recently changed mine, and I noticed a 2-3mpg increase

JLD2k3

Yeah, there's got to be something wrong with your car to get that poor mileage out of a manual. I'd check the plugs and wires, clean the MAF, change all of your fluids, heck maybe even take it to a shop b/c that's just really low. Good luck. If you try the water4gas kit, let us know b/c I've been on the fence about it and if it works for even 1mpg it will pay for its self eventually and it's something to do, right.

ROCK1965

Not sure what the MAF is. Can you explain how to clean it? Is it to regulate the mixture?

mbhackie

Hydrogen generators as a water4gas are a scam. Granted the pop can size devices make a little bit of hydrogen... it’s a ridiculously small amount that will mean nothing to your fuel system. Plus, you need a lot of electricity to make a useable amount of hydrogen thus putting additional stress on the alternator and burning more gasoline. It's like saying “I’m going to run my car off free wind" and then powering your wind generator with a wind turbine. Even if it was a magical kit that really did give 2 more mpg gallon the kit will have you cutting holes in your intake, running non oem wiring and hoses everywhere, cutting a hole in your dash to mount your radioshack rocker switch and much more hackery!

Glyn M Ruck

Don't fall for BS stories, Keep your car in good tune and drive sensibly. A 30% or more fuel saving is possible by driving in an anticipatory fashion. No hard braking or acceleration. Try & predict what is happening ahead of you.

I don’t mean crawl along & get in the way. Try & drive with constant throttle opening (more important with carburettor cars admittedly). Your cars has real-time fuel consumption readout & trip average. Turn it on and you will see what I mean.

If these snake oil devices worked all OEMs would br rushing to fit them. Especially at present crude prices

ROCK1965

Great analogy!

ROCK1965

any other opinions or thoughts?

Lucky13

My '04 C230SS has averaged 28.7 mpg over 105k miles. I love that Kompressor engine. Long highway trips have gotten me 33-34 mpg. Perhaps this is the answer to your gasoline dilemma.

ROCK1965

possibly one of my options too!

JLD2k3

I think the key is how well the alternator keeps up with the battery. If the engine is on the alternator is spinning, so if the battery is charged, there is extra energy being used. Now, is that enough to generate the hydrogen? At idle, probably not, but that's not when you want it. At higher RPM, you're getting more energy from the alternator, so...maybe. I'm considering using a mockup with my own design because I think the water4gas kit is too small. I will probably do it on the wife's Mazda first.

C230 Sport Coup

People have been getting laughed at for years but it isn't all hooey.
The trick is, can you extract more energy than it takes to extract the H.
The oil company's are firmly against this for obvious reasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPq1exwMaUs

scottisha

I'm doing this mod in the next month or so.
I've already ordered some of the stuff I will need, but I'm still trying to find the most efficient generator to use. I ordered a scanguageII and will use this to quantify the results and see what's happening in real time.

My best mileage per tank was 499 miles with 0 miles till empty on the computer.

I typically drive with a heavy right foot, so I typically see 390 to 430 miles per tank.

Lately, my fuel economy has been down. Plugs have less than 30k on them, but car has 142k on it. Everything checks out great and the car has been incredibly reliable, so I'm attributing the fuel economy issue to the frickin heat that we've had here in Florida over the past couple of months.

I'm willing to see if this works, because I have spent much more money on way dumber stuff.

Once it's installed I will post my findings, videos, etc... Even if it proves to be a huge waste of time and a small waste of money.

Scott

Moviela

Let's do a little math on the back of a napkin. The car extracts about 110Kwh from the gasoline. Electrically converting water into hydrogen and oxygen with a 12 volt battery will take about .025 Kwh from the battery. Now if we assume 100% of the electricty produces hydrogen with the same energy content (it doesn't, but let's paint the best face on a pig here) then we can reduce the fuel needed to drive 60 miles by 57 feet.

Please save your money. Everytime there is a spike in gas prices these ripoff artists come out of the woodwork looking for your wallet. Don't be a victim.

JLD2k3

MAF is the Mass Air Flow sensor. It tells the fuel injectors how much gas to apply to the air mix coming in.

ROCK1965

You get some incredible gas mileage. 499 was the best. That more than double what I get on a full tank of gas. I just can't understand what can be causing my car to consume so much gas.

scottisha

So, if I can produce a gas, using electricity the car is producing already, to supplement an inefficient combustion process, allowing me to use less gasoline, I'm only going to add 57 feet of mileage for every 60 miles?

I have a friend with a small company that has fabricated his own system and installed it into two of his fleet trucks. He has not done anything to fix the issue with the 02 sensors telling the computer the engine is running lean, yet he's still getting 22% better gas mileage. This is over the past 3 months, not just a one time test. He is looking into a stand alone computer to fine tune one of the trucks, so he can see what it's full potential will be.

If I'm proven wrong, it will not be the first time. If I spend several hundred dollars messing with this, it will still have gone to better use than that money I spent on a nice RC Helicopter a few months ago.

If I post up positive results, am I going to be considered one of the guys trying to scam everyone? I'm not selling anything, nor do I plan on it, so what will my motivation be to post fake results?

Scott

scottisha

You have a V-6. I have a 1.8 liter 4cyl.

I also drove very conservatively that entire tankful.

If I drive no more than 70mph I can easily get 450 miles per tank and that includes sitting at stop lights, the bank drive through, etc..., but it doesn't include hard acceleration.

Scott

wvadam

sorry but not quite correct. the alternator is load dependent. just because it is spinning doesnt mean it is producing electricity. when a load is put on it and voltage drops, then it suddenly produces mechanical resistance to the spinning force and produces electricity. you have probley noticed this on some cars when a sudden large electrical requirement turns on and the engine blips (slows down) for a moment ever so slightly while the alternator is trying to catch up with the electrical requirements. also, when your alternator breaks, it is often this voltage regulator that is broken, not the mechanical parts necessarily.

its been tried before where people have said they can make free energy, unlimited but converting water to hydrogen and then burning the hydrogen but it was always found it took more energy in that what you get out. if you think about it chemically it just isnt possible to go from water, to hydrogen, and back to water again and miraculously gain energy esp when you are losing energy at every conversion. Even theoretically the BEST you could hope for would be equal in, equal out and even that is not possible.

if anyone is going to try this out regardless, at least build it yourself and dont hand your money over to scammers who are taking advantages of regular people in desparation due to high gas prices.

JLD2k3

Right, so what I'm saying is it's always spinning, so when it's not under load it's spinning for no reason. If you tap the battery for the power to the electrodes to make the hydrogen you make the alternator work more. So now you've got to figure out how much more gas it takes to drive the alternator versus spin it and is it worth it to put that energy into making the hydrogen. I'm not saying it will get 20%, but I'm happy to see what Scott comes up with. Chemically, I agree that you aren't going to come up with something for nothing, but mechanically there are operations going on that can be used to make the energy needed to do something. What it turns out to be...we'll see. Good luck Scott.

scottisha

I'm only sourcing out the generator itself. More than likely, my friend that has two in his fleet vehicles will build me one, but I want him to build/design one that produces HHo better than his current set-up.

This will not be free energy. Those that claim "free" are the ones misleading.
I will keep track of my expenses after installing the system (distilled water, electrolytes, misc repairs, etc..) and see what my true costs of operation turn out to be, compared to my true costs prior to installing.

I will get the scanguage II installed by next week and start doing some data logging of different styles of driving, air pressure in tires, octane levels, etc..)
Just to see what a good baseline will be and to see what can be done to improve my mileage without HHO.
If I can defeat the Check engine light, I will probably see about removing my cat. It has 142k miles on it, so I doubt it's as efficient as it was a couple years ago.

Like I said, I've spent money on more wasteful things. If the money spent on this satisfies my curiosity, as well as some others here, then it's well spent imo.

ohlord

clean MAF diy on benzworld.org w210 section,use only crc brand maf cleaner.
2001 with over 100k miles it is time for new o2 sensors.They wear old and are a big cause of poor mpg.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...xygen%20Sensor

You guys that want to try the scam ever hear about the first law of thermodynamics?Conservation of energy?Perpetual motion machines?
Simply put you can not do it.Browns gas my a** the guy was sued for all he was worth by his investors and the court said his so called water engine was smoke and mirrors.
Baking soda?Car alternator making welding gas?
Ho HO Ho it has been refered as because the joke is on you.

The you tube video
Did you see the size of the car and the box for the power supply?
What do you think is in that box.A big battery that you charge at home to get the H for a fuel cell.It is not an internal combustion engine.

Why not install the old scam that was going around during the embargo in the 70's?Guy guaranteed an extra 10mpg for $25 kit.People that ordered the kit got a bolt and some nuts to screw in and install and adjust beneath the gas pedal so the pedal could only go to 1/2 throttle
This browns gas scam is just the modern version of the same screwing,and the only thing different is the people getting screwed .
ohlord
at least you ones that want to buy or build a system give me a good laugh
2 gallons of water a year,baking soda,a ball jar used for canning peaches,some tubing from the hardware store. free energy
Chumps

Boom vang

Put quite simply: if none of the worlds R&D departments of automotive companies have been able to develop this with their budgets in hundred's of millions of dollars or even billions do you really think that someone selling stuff out of their garage or eBay has bound the magic answer?

The conspiracy that the car companies are in bed with the oil company's is also false because imagine the profitability and sales if one of them started selling a car as such, this would outweigh what any oil company could pay them off. The auto industry is the most competitive sector around.

And any of you thinking that add-ons or magic liquid to pour in to your tank really work, stop and think why would not any of the car companies just add them on ( a lot easier than re-engineering one engines or cheaper than developing new ones) and if a liquid you could pour in and gave you an instant 5mpg more it would be a marketing brainchild if Shell offered this, we all would only buy our gas them putting out of business all the other brands.

To develop Hydrogen through a fuel cell or electrolosis takes a whole lot of energy than a 12v batter or household current can provide.

In other words, there is no such thing as a 'free lunch'

I hear the only way you can increase power and fuel economy is to put in a Flux Capacitor