DrewGoods

I DRIVE A 05 C320 4MATIC CARS CURRENTLY IN THE SHOP FOR WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS A BAD STARTER THE STARTER WAS CHANGED BUT THE CAR STILL DOESNT START THE LIGHTS ON THE DASH ALL COME ON BUT NOTHING.. THE ONLY THING THAT HAPPENS IS THE ENGINE FAN STARTS SPINNING LIKE CRAZY... MY MECHANIC TRIED TO DIAGNOSE THE PROBLEM AND THEY CAME ACROSS MY PASSENGER SIDE CARPET BEING SOAKED THEY TOOK THE TCM OUT AND FOUND IT TO BE PRETTY DRENCHED IN WATER DUE TO CLOGGED DRAINAGE HOLES MY QUESTION TO U GUYS IS WILL A BAD TCM PREVENT MY CAR FROM STARTING UP AT ALL? CAUSE THATS WHAT THERE SUGGESTING IT COULD BE AND A NEW 1 IS PRETTY PRICEY I WANT TO GET MY CAR FIXED BUT IM NEW ON HERE AND LOOKING FOR ANYONE WHO MIGHT OF HAD THE SAME ISSUE TO HELP ME OUT THANKS ALOT! AND IF ANY 1 HAS THE WIRING DIAGRAMS TO THIS CAR THAT WOULD ALSO BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!!

samaritrey

Well insurance usually covers that so I would call them up first before you do any work. Secondly did you check the CPS?

DrewGoods

Will check that tomorrow but would the tcm prevent the car from starting?

SunnyRayToronto

Ok,.... first of all,... stop "YELLING"!

Did this car ever go into limp (safe) mode?

When you try to start it and it doesn't start,... what messages are displayed in the instrument cluster? List the full messages in order,.... First message, 2nd message, etc,....

Did the engine fan spinning problem only started after you changed the starter? Or was it there before as well?

How long does the engine fan spin for? Does it spin as long as you have the key in? When you take the key out, does the engine fan still spin like a turbine jet engine,... for how long after you take the key out?

What codes does the ODBII scanner finds,....

How many km or miles on this car? Did you change transmission fluid before? When? Location?

Is this car manual or automatic transmission? Did you ever have problem shifting gears? Smooth? Hard?

Is your mechanic a real Mercedes-Benz mechanic with all the proper equipment or a MB indy or just a regular mechanic? Basically, if a bad starter was suspected,... they should have popped out the old one and tested it,... sometimes only the bushes need to be changed,... but changing it out for a new starter that doesn't solve the problem shows your mechanic is not doing a proper diagnosis & testing,.... and is just guessing,.... and making a profit off each bad guess,... and now your mechanic want to change out the TCM,.... no wonder why you're worried!

Glyn M Ruck

Check fuse 52 in the front SAM. Fuse 52 is underspec'd at 15 amps - replace with 20 amps. This is the usual cause of the car not cranking. There is a TSB on the issue.

Glyn M Ruck

Here:

DrewGoods

Thanks guys for the responses as far as limp mode it never entered that the car has an automatic tranny has about 93k on the clock last time I checked there are no messages on the instrument cluster I'll check the scanner for codes at the shop tomorrow the fan spins when the keys in the on position then when u take the key out it stops and my mechanics pretty much a regular one who I've been going to for years

Glyn M Ruck

Does the engine crank over?

DrewGoods

No it doesn't

SunnyRayToronto

After you try to start the car and it doesn't crank,.... and the engine fan starts spinning like a turbine engine,.....

When you take the key out, does the engine fan stop spinning immediately? Or does the engine fan keep spinning on high for about a minute or so before it eventually stops?

DrewGoods

Once the car gets put in the on position the fan starts spinning like a turbine engine when u turn it off and take the key out it stops spinning but takes like 5 seconds b4 it actually stops

Glyn M Ruck

Fuse 52 almost certainly or the starter relay.

I'll almost put money on fuse 52 blown

DrewGoods

I hope thats what it is that's the first thing I'm gonna check but would that blown fuse cause the fan to spin that way?

Glyn M Ruck

The fan will frequently start when you crank. It will also start if the aircon is still on or in Auto.

I got caught out with fuse 52 & the dealer wanted to replace the starter motor on my C240. Then I remembered the bulletin but did not remember the fuse number. Sure enough it was fuse 52. Johnand & I had a good laugh!

SunnyRayToronto

When you take the key out,... I'm surprised your engine fan remains spinning on high mode like a turbine engine for only 5 seconds,.... I was expecting it to go for about a minute or so. Also I would expect a "Coolant Visit Workshop" malfunction message and often followed by other messages.

Anyways,.... I still suspect its the coolant temperature sensor and maybe the thermostat as well. If the computer is not getting a proper reading from the coolant temperature sensor it assumes the worst (ie: engine is overheating),... goes into limp mode (if running) otherwise no start,... and blast the engine fan at high mode like a turbine engine,.... usually for a minute or so. Why you only get 5 seconds of it? Maybe your battery is low (from all these no starts),.... go into dyno mode and check,.... milage on instrument cluster, hit reset button three times to get battery voltage.

Back to the task at hand,....
- pull out the coolant temperature sensor and place just the non-wire end into a cup of hot water that's about 60 degree Celsius (anything between 40 and 80 should be fine)
- using steering wheel buttons navigate to milage then down to coolant temperature bar graph
- put key into ignition keyhole, turn to position 1,.... you shouldn't see any bars
- turn key to position 2,.... you should see bars on coolant temperature bar graph displaying about 60 degrees Celsius

If you don't see a temperature reading in key position 2,... then change out the coolant temperature sensor ($15-20 part). While you're at it, change out the thermostat ($30 part) and coolant top up (Zerex G-05 & distilled water).


Glyn,.... I'll almost put money on the coolant temperature sensor! But I guess its safer if we're just going for bragging rights! Glyn is down for fuse 52 blown and Samaritrey for CPS. Anyone else wants in?

DrewGoods,... troubleshooting a car, especially a Mercedes, is often times trial and error guessing game,... so its makes sense to test the parts coming out to make sure they're actually defective,... and it also make sense look at probability and cost,... when probability is a toss up,.... examine the least expensive parts first (ie check fuse 52 and change from 15A to 20A),... then start working your way up (coolant temperature sensor $15-20), then CPS,.... before you even think about switching out starters and TCM,...

DrewGoods

@ sunnyraytoronto I know I just hope it's something small because then it gets crazy money wise and I'm kinda tight so it sucks but ima keep my hopes up cause that's all I can do......

Glyn M Ruck

OK - we are all in with a good chance if you are a betting man. See my post #6 here on the start procedure. CPS & temp sensor are interrogated. Fuses 31, 52 & 57 have to be intact for start enable. 52 usually blows. Starter relay must be sound. Dealers always overlook fuse 52.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...start-car.html

satbuggy

Hi there, today i had the same exact problem with my w203 c230 kompressor.

Came out is was the the black STARTER RELAY in the fuse box.

There are 2 black identical RELAYS in the fuse box, when i switched the relays, i found out the engine fan did'nt blow anymore when trying to start.

Wen't to the MB store and got myself a new relay. Altough the MB guy told me that this could'nt be the problem...

So thank you very much for the good hint!

Patrick from Amsterdam, the netherlands , europe

btw first i tought this all was caused by 2 little swimming pools 1 underneath my fuse box and the other under the battery, caused by CLOGGED DRAINAGE HOLES a
common problem for w203 types

SunnyRayToronto

Satbuggy,.... did you get any error messages on your instrument cluster display? A Check Engine Light or some other "___ Visit Workshop" message. If so which one?

What is the Mercedes Part Number for the starter relay?

I am assuming your car would not even crank and there was no starter noise. Did the front engine fan start spinning in high mode (like a turbine engine) when you put the key in position 2 or when you tried to start the ignition?



BTW,... I did email the Original Poster, DrewGoods, inquiring if he got his car fixed and how was it fixed,.... his response yesterday was: "Hey man a matter of fact I did the problem was the dme the computer under the hood in the fuse box the drains were clogged and it caused water to enter the box and shorted my dme which caused my car to not start but I fixed it so it starts now lol thanks for asking"

Ok,... what exactly is a "DME computer"??? Apparently it is in the fuse box under the hood,... is the DME computer another name for this BLACK STARTER RELAY? If so,... our master, Glyn_M_Ruck, deserves two bows instead of just one,.... as per his post #12 "Fuse 52 almost certainly or the starter relay."


BTW, my car had "Coolant Visit Workshop" message and goes into limp mode with front engine fan spinning in high mode like jet turbine engine,... was originally fixed by changing out thermostat and coolant temperature sensor last month,... but now the problem has returned. Now it won't start at all, when trying to start, I get "Coolant Visit Workshop" as soon as key goes into position 2 and it won't crank,... no starter attempt,... the front engine fan starts spinning in high mode like a jet turbine engine for about a minute after I take the key out. Yes, Glyn_M_Ruck,.... I'll be checking my starter relay!


Lesson learned today: Little grasshoppers (me) should NOT bet against the master Glyn_M_Ruck!

Glyn M Ruck

The front SAM contains the fuses, the starter relay & the Digital Motor Electronics (DME) relay. The DME relay triggers the ECU (injectors etc) & the fuel pump. It is multifunctional. Sounds like the whole front SAM got wet in which case none of the relays would be working.

Servellon

Hey guys I had that problem!..and here in El Salvador we do it the old school way!...why I did was; I found the starter and hit it!...try cranking it!....and it turned on!...apparently the carbons on the starter are bad!..the starter gets jammed!...it's easy fix..not expensive at all!..

C230 Sport Coup

During a bad rainstorm my car seems to pick up some water...
and then refuses to start.
If you had water accumulating,
can they read anything on the CANBUS with SDS?

Mine was dead as a door nail but came back to life after it dried out, except for an SRS error I had to get cleared.

precisionauto

1

samaritrey

Wait so you are a repair shop that is charging a consumer to fix their car that you are obviously not qualified to work on. Wow that is sad poor customer.
Well what other diagnostic work have you done. The starter may be drawing too many amps and if you just jump it that does not tell you the whole story. And when you say you can get the vehicle to start does it run fine or just crank over? Also do you have a star system you may need it?

mirna

I have an accident, my car was hit in the front part, where the headlight fell down, the bumper and all the side lights fell down on the road. I do not have insurance to cover the expenses.
Dash board keeps saying somethings is wrong with the signal lights, fog lights, head lights.
Now all the fixed lights are in working. After the lights have been fixed the dash board keeps giving those error messages. The battery drains every 16 hours, in order to prevent that problem, every night I leave the car on the trickle charger.
It is not the computer, because a new one was installed and still sending the same messages.
My mechanic suggested to replace the engine and light harness. I can see this is a big job. I am not sure what to do, whether I should take the car to the dealer and get the analysis done..My budget is tight. I need help.


I am looking to get this job done at inexpensive way. Of course in Connecticut everything is expensive.