MB's not so dependable...
#76
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
c230k, black, auto, c2 (let the sunshine in), Bose, leather, and CD
Originally posted by steffen
I am a Consumer Reports subscriber. The C class is listed as "Much Worse Than Average" in reliability. They get this information by sending a survey to subscribers on an annual basis. I don't know exactly what the difference is between "Much Better Than" and "Much Worse Than" but it is probably somewhat subtle - like the difference between 1 visit per year to the dealer and 3 visits per year.
My previous car was also rated as "Much Worse than Average" and a "Used Car to Avoid" but it served me quite well.
I use Consumer Reports and JD Power as a guide in making my purchasing decision but only as an influencer. I accept the fact that quality for MB has declined (the surveys show lots of evidence of this happening). No need to be in denial about this - we accept this and still buy MB because we like how the service guys treat us, we like the brand, and we like the performance of the product.
--Steffen
I am a Consumer Reports subscriber. The C class is listed as "Much Worse Than Average" in reliability. They get this information by sending a survey to subscribers on an annual basis. I don't know exactly what the difference is between "Much Better Than" and "Much Worse Than" but it is probably somewhat subtle - like the difference between 1 visit per year to the dealer and 3 visits per year.
My previous car was also rated as "Much Worse than Average" and a "Used Car to Avoid" but it served me quite well.
I use Consumer Reports and JD Power as a guide in making my purchasing decision but only as an influencer. I accept the fact that quality for MB has declined (the surveys show lots of evidence of this happening). No need to be in denial about this - we accept this and still buy MB because we like how the service guys treat us, we like the brand, and we like the performance of the product.
--Steffen
As a note when I bought my C-class consumer reports recommended it on predicited relability, but the 2002's dropped to the worst relability rating. It's not just model that matters, it's model year.
But still think what matters is if your happy with your car.
Cheers,
beth
#77
Lexus has been #1 for 9 years in a row, that is one of the main selling points (like prestige is a selling point for a Benz).
Trade-offs. Every car maker has a bad bunch, it's just that some car makers have less tolerance for it than others. Also, it seemed Benz got away with bad quality but cause of rising competition, peoples expectations are higher. Benzs will last longer than you and I, you just got to have money to fix it.
Trade-offs. Every car maker has a bad bunch, it's just that some car makers have less tolerance for it than others. Also, it seemed Benz got away with bad quality but cause of rising competition, peoples expectations are higher. Benzs will last longer than you and I, you just got to have money to fix it.
#78
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From: GA
'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
So your fight should not be with me but the idiots at MB.
some of you just don't want to admit even if your car has minor problems.
#79
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From: GA
'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
I don't know exactly what the difference is between "Much Better Than" and "Much Worse Than" but it is probably somewhat subtle - like the difference between 1 visit per year to the dealer and 3 visits per year.
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
#80
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Originally posted by Jim Banville
Well, well well
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
Well, well well
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
Jim i pretty much agree with you on all your posts.
very well put!
not lets f.ucking put an end to this thread since its really pointless
#83
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Joined: May 2002
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From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by mctwin2kman
My parents have a Lexus RX300 and it has some serious quality control issues. After 2 years, with one remaining on the lease, the front cupholders crumbled and will barely even open let alone hold a drink. The plastic interior pieces are falling off in the rear, they do not have any little kids anymore so it is just adults back there. Other than that the thing is still kicking. But quality it is not.
My parents have a Lexus RX300 and it has some serious quality control issues. After 2 years, with one remaining on the lease, the front cupholders crumbled and will barely even open let alone hold a drink. The plastic interior pieces are falling off in the rear, they do not have any little kids anymore so it is just adults back there. Other than that the thing is still kicking. But quality it is not.
#84
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 29
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From: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
C230K, 325iT
Originally posted by GDawgC220
No matter what car brand you buy, there's not a perfect brand out there.
Bottom line, judge for yourself and your MB, not the whole company in general. ..and how satisfied are you with YOUR car?
No matter what car brand you buy, there's not a perfect brand out there.
Bottom line, judge for yourself and your MB, not the whole company in general. ..and how satisfied are you with YOUR car?
#85
Originally posted by Jim Banville
Well, well well
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
Well, well well
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
#88
Originally posted by Jim Banville
Well, well well
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
Well, well well
I guess my reliable '02 C240 would be consider much worse than average by CR standards! I have had it in the shop probably 5 or 6 times! Once for warped rotors (I think I did this by spraying cold water on the wheels while they were hot -NOW I KNOW NEVER to do that!), once for the BAS/ESP error, but they didn't have the part so it had to go back, once for a blown taillight, once for a blown tag light (seems you just can't replace the bulb - you have to reset something in the computer) and once for a check engine light that came on once and was determined to be a misfire since nothing could be found and it never came on again. So there you have it, a car that has NEVER left me stranded or had a problem that made it troublesome to drive, but CR would say it was a POS
Ahah! You are the reason we have such poor reliability ratings, you just admitted you brought your car in for 5 or 6 times. Stop it, don't bring your car into the dealer anymore, change your own light bulb, reset your own check engine light and reset your own BAS/ESP error you woos! And yes, I consider having to bring your car to the dealer for any unscheduled visit bad and 5-6 in 1 year is insane and for the past 42 cars I've owned that has to be as CR put it, "much worse than average". All this time hiding behind my problems, making yourself feel good that you only had it in 5-6 times to my twice as many. Sorry buddy, it's only twice as many because it takes my dealer at least 2 visits to fix anything, it looks like we are even....
#91
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: On a hill overlooking San Francisco Bay
c230k, black, auto, c2 (let the sunshine in), Bose, leather, and CD
Originally posted by noblert10
disregard this thread
most people here are happy with there MBs, dont be scared, go on with your trade
disregard this thread
most people here are happy with there MBs, dont be scared, go on with your trade
Most people got lucky, so you mostly likely did too.
Cheers,
Beth
#92
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Joined: May 2002
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From: GA
'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Jim I assume you never drive in the rain if you can't spray water on your wheels after you have been driving
Actually, I think the DIFFERENCE between what I did and drving through rain, is that I put a CONSTANT stream of cold water on a piping hot metal disc. A quick splash evaporates quickly. A constant stream causes the metal to cool too fast, thus creating a warp.
My transmission never shifted right, and MB said it was "normal". My engine used a qt of oil every 2000 miles, and MB said it was normal. I didn't have time to fight them or lemon law it, so I traded it. It also had the fuel gauge problem, esp/bas problem, and other little stuff, but the engine and trans problems were the things that made me get rid of it. I won't be in the 65% that is loyal to MB because they wouldn't fix my car
Be afraid, be very afraid
#93
Originally posted by Buellwinkle
Be afraid, be very afraid
Be afraid, be very afraid
#94
Hey guys, im new here but have been reading these posts for a while and noticed a couple of things about you guys. One is that pride gets in the way and two is that you like the way the car looks. The honest truth is that its the luck of the draw with Benz when you buy it. With lexus and infiniti the chances are much less of getting problems. Reason is because Benz does not focus on quality any more. They focus on marketing and trying to beat other manufactures in technology. Now I for one have a Benz. However I do want to stress this, I did not buy my car for quality nor for reliability. Benz's are known for their problems. I think what took place in the last 5 years is that most people now can afford one and are beginning to see these problems. 20 years ago most people could not afford a Benz and they had this idea that expensive cars they cant afford must be all about quality. Ofcourse that's not true. So people are beginning to discover these problems and are being shocked. Now someone was asking here if any of you have ever heard of anyone being stranded. I started to laugh when I read that. After doing so many searches on this forum it seems like many people have had their car stall on them in the middle of an intersection and cause them to be in harm and people have not been able to start their cars do to ignition problems and had to have their car towed. The bottom line is pride can get in the way and some people cant handle the truth and do not want to look like they spent all this money for nothing. I am not trying to attack anyone here so please no one get angry at me. I am just pointing what I have seen so far. I bought my car personally because of 2 things, 1 I love the way it looks and feels on the inside, 2 the attention in it kicks butt . As long as we can all share our stories and help each other out things will be good. But also I have complained to Benz about some problems I have. If everyone would complain to them maybe something can and will be done. By the way, sorry for the long post.
#95
Originally posted by BenzOwner02
By the way, sorry for the long post.
By the way, sorry for the long post.
We also knew about the poor ratings, but the look (wife's pov) and feel (my pov) of the car was what mattered most.
Now we're not _completely_ stupid, so we bought the extended warranty. Shame we'd have to pay like that just because we're afraid it'll break down, though...
#96
I'm not going to read through all these msg. so this may have been covered.
The CNNFN.com article stated that it was the 2000 ML and E Class's that scored poorly, I just remembered that E class sales make up 25% of MB sales (I don't know if this is a US figure or International).
Maybe the 2000 E's had production problems, who knows...
When you travel through Europe, you see boat loads of E's as Taxi cabs, this is a good thing. The cars can't be that bad if cabbies use them. When I was in Zurich, the MB cabs looked brand new, so they aren't only using the later models.
And also, remember the ML is made in America...so that could be part of reason it scored so poorly.
I think most people here are happy with their Mercedes.
The CNNFN.com article stated that it was the 2000 ML and E Class's that scored poorly, I just remembered that E class sales make up 25% of MB sales (I don't know if this is a US figure or International).
Maybe the 2000 E's had production problems, who knows...
When you travel through Europe, you see boat loads of E's as Taxi cabs, this is a good thing. The cars can't be that bad if cabbies use them. When I was in Zurich, the MB cabs looked brand new, so they aren't only using the later models.
And also, remember the ML is made in America...so that could be part of reason it scored so poorly.
I think most people here are happy with their Mercedes.
#98
Originally posted by Jim Banville
Aren't you clever
Actually, I think the DIFFERENCE between what I did and drving through rain, is that I put a CONSTANT stream of cold water on a piping hot metal disc. A quick splash evaporates quickly. A constant stream causes the metal to cool too fast, thus creating a warp.
How many separate dealers said those problems were normal? We all know there are good dealer who go out of their way to help you and there are others that tell you to jump in a lake. Did the corporate level of Daimler-Chrysler say it was normal? And if Daimler-Chrysler said it was "normal" at the corporate level, what makes you think they wouldn't say the same thing if you had a similar problem with your new Dodge?
It was both the dealer and MB who were at fault. The dealer called the MB rep in on almost every problem instead of just fixing it. The MB rep was polite but had an arrogant attitude and always talked to me like I couldn't possibly understand something as complex as a gearbox. If I called the 800 number, they just made another appt for me to talk to the same rep! He is the one who said they would not do anything about the oil consumption problem until it used 1 qt/1000 miles. The dealer did not think the oil problem was normal, but said they couldn't do anything without MB's approval. Luckily, Dodge still seems to be in control of itself- at least as far as warranty issues go. Time will tell.
I'd actually be more afraid of a Ford product! Those idiots either need to get their act together, or else start giving free car washes and donuts.
Aren't you clever
Actually, I think the DIFFERENCE between what I did and drving through rain, is that I put a CONSTANT stream of cold water on a piping hot metal disc. A quick splash evaporates quickly. A constant stream causes the metal to cool too fast, thus creating a warp.
How many separate dealers said those problems were normal? We all know there are good dealer who go out of their way to help you and there are others that tell you to jump in a lake. Did the corporate level of Daimler-Chrysler say it was normal? And if Daimler-Chrysler said it was "normal" at the corporate level, what makes you think they wouldn't say the same thing if you had a similar problem with your new Dodge?
It was both the dealer and MB who were at fault. The dealer called the MB rep in on almost every problem instead of just fixing it. The MB rep was polite but had an arrogant attitude and always talked to me like I couldn't possibly understand something as complex as a gearbox. If I called the 800 number, they just made another appt for me to talk to the same rep! He is the one who said they would not do anything about the oil consumption problem until it used 1 qt/1000 miles. The dealer did not think the oil problem was normal, but said they couldn't do anything without MB's approval. Luckily, Dodge still seems to be in control of itself- at least as far as warranty issues go. Time will tell.
I'd actually be more afraid of a Ford product! Those idiots either need to get their act together, or else start giving free car washes and donuts.
#99
I got a F-150 V8 i beat the crap out of the car too and the only problem i have had with the car was a trany problem but nothing major. the 4.6L V8 is a very good engine. I dont even take good care of the car. some fords suck but some are very good the 4.6 V8 is very good.
#100
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Joined: May 2002
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From: GA
'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
My friend has a 2001 F150 reg cab 6 cyl truck that he beats the crap out of. but that truck is bulletproof.
I've had several GTs and they were all good cars with no problems at all.
Benz's are known for their problems.
It's Ford that is known for problems. Where do you think Found On Road Dead, and Fixed Or Repaired Daily came from?
Last edited by Jim Banville; 07-12-2003 at 02:34 PM.