Kain

What are the pros and cons of each car?

Buellwinkle

MB - free car washes, muffins, great service, mediocre resale value, not very dependable (see JD Powers dependability surveys), free service loaners, 4 years free service

BMW - crappy service, better resale value, more dependable, not all dealers do loaners, I believe 3 years free service, dated styling.

Kain

Thanks.

But what about performance and handling? Both cars with manual transmission.

By the way, how is Audi's resale value compared to Mercedes-Benz and BMW?

Kain

By the way, I am refering to the Sport/Performance packages for both cars.

SiLvaC32

bmw has better performance! better power also... but at santa barbara, you get loaners at bmw but not at mercedes...=(

Buellwinkle

Lately Audi has been slipping, check kbb.com for comparisons like a 2001 C320 vs. a 2001 330i vs. a 2001 Audi. I've driven both the C320 and the Beemer 3 on a track and without any special sports or handling packages the C320 was way better. The magazines usually compare the Beemer with the sports package but with $500 worth of AMG sway bars and springs you can bring the C320 up to or better than the handling on the Beemer sports package for less money. Performance, the Beemer has a slight edge but not huge, both will get you to 60 in the mid 6 second range with a manual trans and unless you are drag racing I don't think you will feel the difference. Styling is subjective but I think the C looks better. This would be a tough choice for me except the local BMW dealer has such a bad reputation the choice was sort of made for me.

Kain

BMW claims the 330i with Sports Package goes from 0-60 mph in 5.9 seconds with manual transmission. Mercedes-Benz claims the C320 Sports Sedan goes from 0-60 mph in 6.8 seconds with manual transmission.

That's quite a difference, don't you think? Will I be able to "feel" the 0.9 second difference?

Jim Banville

ACTUALLY, much to Buellwinkle's disappointment, according to the latest JD Power 5 year dependability surve, for every 1 problem you may have with the most relaible brand, LEXUS, you may have 1.95 problems with a MB or 1.60 problems with a BMW. Big difference, huh?

And I'd like to see some PROOF that MB's have worse resale values than BMW.

dswildfire

that's the performance package, the sport package is different. the perf package adds more power. a 330i with sport package will do 0-60 in 6.4, according to BMW. 0.4 seconds is almost impossible to discern, unless of course you are a pro driver who has driven enough to tell. and i mean really pro. and i think the 6.8 for c320 might be off (either way). test drive both, and see how they feel. don't forget also that the slower of the 2, doesn't necessarily give off lower g force on acceleration. it is also suspension dependent.

Jim Banville

And in the JD Power initial quality survey, the numbers are even closer. For every 1 problem you have with the most reliable brand, LEXUS, you may have 1.73 problems in a MB, or 1.53 problems in a BMW.
Anyway, I DO NOT want this to turn into another thread on MB quality vs. other brands. I just wanted to address a little "spin" on MB quality that was made here earleir

Kain

Yeah, I meant the Performance Package for the BMW 330i.

But, do you think I'll notice the 0.9 second difference in acceleration?

Secondly, how are Mercedes-Benz manual transmissions? How do they compare to BMW's?

66 Roadster

When I was looking at cars I drove both the MB and BMW's. Both sport sedans, black on black, 6 speed (MB) and 5 speed (BMW). I could not tell much difference in speed. The BMW needed to be above 3000 RPM go get moving, and the MB had more low end torque. The 6 speed could acount for part of this. In very hard cornering the BMW leaned more, but planted nicely until I hit the bump-stops. The MB had better feel at the limit (did not hit the bump-stops) and needed better tires, but had a very predictable/controlable slide. The MB "felt" more like a 40K car a while the BMW "felt" like a 30K car. Just my opinion - You need to drive them back-to-back.

czachari

Same goes for the C320 but I thought the C320 handled like a boat even compared to my 740i. Don't any mags have real numbers on the C-Class like slalom, skidpad, etc? I'll bet anything that the bimmer will blow the doors off the C320. No disrespect but BMW targets a different driver than MBZ and hence the cars are tuned differently. In fact, in the S4 versus C32 that C&D did last month the AMG car had skidpad numbers of 0.85 which is pathetic by sport car standards but very good when compared to regular cars. The Audi BTW did 0.89 (or higher). By comparison the M3 does 0.93 I think. Anyway, BMWS and MBZ are different cars.The ride in a Benz is more supple than one in a BMW. And BMWs are always balanced at 50%/50% weight distribution. I know Audi's are front-heavy, I am not sure how MBZ balances the C.

CZ

Vince

here you go.

Kar don

this debate has an easy summary.

If you like performance over luxury, pick BMW.
If you like luxury over performance, pick MB.

MB has good performance, but the BMW is better.
BMW is luxurious, but the MB is more so.

Also, I think the C320 sport overseas is different than the US C320 sport. I remember seeing it has 17 inch version of the SLK wheels, 4 piston front calipers, etc.

mctwin2kman

I work for an auto auction and I can tell you that re-sale value for both sucks. If you want to know true depreciation then look at lease residual values on a five year lease. The residual on a Benz is better than the residual on a BMW after 5 years. meaning that the MB will be worth more money. In 2-3 years the MB will depreciate faster than the BMW, but will hold its value much longer. As for which vehicle is better, that depends on your opinion and what you want out of the car. BMW's have been known to have a sportier suspension, where MB has a more relaxed suspension that a person would want in a luxury vehicle. Also look at interior space and materials, the BMW's have less room in the back seat as well as some cheaper looking interior pieces. As for speed and acceleration, the BMW is quicker off the line but the Benz is sometimes better in passing scenerios. The Benz has great highway acceleration, and I am not really sure on the BMW, which I would assume is close.

Kain

Which one should I get if I value performance and luxury equally?

tommy

If you value them equally, and are getting a manny, very simple - get the BMW. MB's tranny isn't really up to the task.

Also, if you're thinking of down-the-line, the aftermarket is much, much better for the 3 series, and I don't see that changing. Just adding a UUC short shifter will make you .

It's 0.9 seconds quicker - you'll be quicker, whether you feel it or not; what's not to like?

BenzOwner02

Here is another way to put it. If you want class you buy the Benz. If you want sport you buy the BMW. Handling and performance is all crap because both cars almost match each other to some degree. Also you need to sit in both cars and see what feels better. What some people like you may not like. Also not that Benz is that reliable and its a known issue but I think and most people will tell you that Benz is more reliable than BMWs. Been that way from the 70s.

By the way, Jim posted 2 replies on reliability, is this guy going to ever get over it?

breastroker

While I was having my fuel pump replaced I had several hours yesterday to go through all the cars at Fletcher Jones. It looks li9ke the CLK grill will fit the C class coupe with just a small amount of gap on each side, sort of floating look.

I of course loved all the E55, S55 and CL 55 models, but way expensive. I much prefer the C 32 over the E55.

But if I were to order a car for German pick up, I would order a standard C 320 and not the sports sedan. I would have no sun roof, and include the good 10 way seats and C7 wheel package. To me the C320 sedans look cheap and not as sporty as the coupes with the aluminum consul trim. With the money saved you could put the full C32 AMG brakes and sway bars in for right at $1000. Put $1500 more in pullies and a chip and the car should have about 250 HP with good handling and great brakes.

Lynn

C7 is not available on the C320 sedan.

Buellwinkle

Don't go by 0-60 because the difference of .4 seconds between their claimed times is more likely due to the number of gear changes in the MB. MB has an extra gear so it maybe that the extra shift to 60 costs the MB that small amount of time and possibly to 50 or 70 the MB is faster. I've owned and driven a lot of cars and I would hard pressed to tell which is faster in a back to back test. I can cetainly take a 330i in my C230K without a problem. A better measurement might be trap speed on the quarter mile. If Beemer makes a higher HP model for more money then you have to consider if it's worth it, afterall you can play that game all the way up to the C32 vs. the M3. And like I said before, minor tweaks using inexpensive AMG parts on the C320 can certainly bring them both in the same handling ballpark. What it comes down to is you, if they were both equal in every respect, which do you see yourself driving the next few years? It's really not a question of performance vs. luxury as that can be debated depending on each persons tastes.

Guest0001

must you go on every board and make comparisons

this has been discussed countless times. try useing the search button

BenzOwner02

Noblert10, discussed or not he has a right to ask the question. It is related to the forum. Some times choosing an expensive car that you will stick with for a couple of years can be a hard choice. Some people need more opinions. If you do not like it then you can leave this forum.

FrankW

to answer AlBoston's question.

Yes, the US has a different sport pkg then in Europe. The US sport pkg is basically the Europe's Avantgarde model with 7-spoke Evolution wheels.

The Sport pkg offered in Europe has all these thing: "It comprises sports suspension, 17-inch 5-spoke light-alloy wheels, mixed-size tyres (size 225/45 at the front and size 245/40 at the rear) and an oval stainless steel tailpipe (the diesel models feature two chromed tailpipes). The 17-inch high-performance brakes, with perforated brake discs and "Mercedes-Benz"-badged brake callipers, not only keep the power under control but look good too. For the interior, there are sports seats upholstered in either "Speed" fabric, leather or TWIN Leather, while studded, brushed stainless steel sports pedals, a three-spoke multifunction steering wheel with thumbrests and a short leather gear knob round off the package. "

here's the link to MB world wide site: http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/c-class/lines.htm

also, if you click on the AMG section, they also have a AMG sport pkg.