jkowtko

I know there are a million tire threads out there, but none specifically talking about the stock sport suspension, which rides very different from the non-sport suspension or modified suspensions.

I am currently running down my set of Continential Extreme DWs and preparing to move to Michelin Pilot Super Sport (PSS) ... Costco has a great deal on them now.

I have Bilstein B4 (TC) shocks and struts on the car, which are a bit firmer than the stock Sachs-Boge, otherwise the stock sport suspension.

I bought the car new ten years ago. My first replacement off the stock tires was General UHP Exclaim. They were very cheap when they first came out (~$90/tire), very quiet when new, handled okay, and I went through 2 1/2 sets before the price rose enough to lose the advantage over the better brands.

It was then recommended from a sports auto shop (Porsches) to get either RE760 or Conti Extreme DW. I chose the DWs and have been extremely happy with the handling of these tires. But a few cons: (1) a bit of road noise, especially when driving on grooved cement highways, and (2) they wear quickly, and (3) the fronts became really noisy when worn.

I should say that both the Generals and the DWs got noisier with wear, to the point where it sounds like your bearings and suspension are shot. new tires cleared up these "problems" both times.

Now the DWs are discontinued, I have started looking around, and the Michelin Pilot Super Sport (PSS) seem to be a huge favorite amongst the "spirited daily drivers".

I would also consider the RE760s, however I hear they are a bit stiffer than the PSS and DW, and I think I'm already at my limit on suspension stiffness.

My goals are still great handling and firm tires, but I would like to find ones that are going to be quiet and stay relatively quiet over time.

Does anyone recommend a tire over the Michelin PSS?

Thanks. John

phister

continental actually made a replacement for the DWS that are pretty good. the have the ControlContact sport, purecontact, and truecontact. Im going to be purchasing the controlcontact sport since its the replacement for the DWS

jkowtko

The tire shop mentioned those when he said the DW/DWS were discontinued. Here's a review from a Lexus forum where the OP seems to like them a lot.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-t...rt-w-pics.html

My goal would be to get something that's a bit quieter than the DWs but with as good handling. So far it seems like people are recommending Michelin over Continental.

Have you specifically ruled out the Super Sport?

MJ50

ventus v12 should be enuf...

jkowtko

Thanks for the mention of the V12 ... people really seem to like that tire, and for a budget price sounds like a deal you can't beat.

But they also say that PSS is a level above, and is even worth the substantial additional cost.

Since Costco has a good price on the PSS and the $70 instant rebate is in effect, the price on the PSS is really good right now.

But, all other things equal, my concern is road noise. If the V12 is noticably quieter than the PSS that would be good to know. And if both tires are quieter than the DW, that would also be good to know. I definitely want something that is quieter than the DW.

I should also add a note about tire wear. For the DW on this car, the tread depth on the front wears at about half the rate of the rear. Right now the front DWs on my car have 26k on them and still 6/32 tread -- but they have been noisy after maybe 18k. The first set of rears that I purchased with the fronts wore to the bars after 13k miles ... I now have 13k on the second set of rears and the tread is ~ 4/32. Would be nice to find a tire that wears more evenly and doesn't get noisy halfway through its life.

Thanks. John

Thanks. John

VVF

What do you guys think about Nitto Motivos? I'm planning to get them for the rears eventually.
The DWSs on the rear are at 2.5/32 in the middle, after 23k miles, so I expect 2-3k more out of them.

Jkowtko, fiy, you can still buy DW and DWS at tirerack.

jkowtko

Okay, I just pulled the trigger on the Pilot Super Sports at Costco ... $651 out the door ... not bad for staggered rims and a tire that most people say can't be beat

Tires will be in tomorrow ... I'll get them installed sometime this week.

I'm coming off of three years of Conti Extreme DWs, so I will post a comparison as soon as I get some driving time on the PSS.

-- John

jkowtko

I got the tires installed yesterday, didn't have much driving time since I had to get to work, and used the minivan to pick up some stuff later on ... but I did manage to drive a few extra exits on the freeway to get a feel of the new tires.

My very first impression of these tires -- quiet, soft & comfortable yet firm.

The car seems to corner effortlessly around the freeway onramp clovers and I don't notice any slop at all, but somehow feels like the rubber is a bit softer than the DWs. The tire treads even "look" soft. I haven't pushed it yet -- with the storm supposedly coming up I should have a good chance to test wet weather behavior.

I can also hear a bit of distant noise coming from the tires, but it is very muted, and does not change much as I move from one road surface to another. Right now the car is very quiet on the freeway.

-- John

tommy

I've been watching this thread just for fun (and am getting new tires myself this spring), and still cannot understand why the sport suspension needs for good tires would be different than any other W203's?

That's a damn good price, either way -what sizes are those? Tirerack has 'em for 822 staggered, 225/40/18 and 255/35/18, and just priced out Costco and they're 102 cheaper. Not bad, hmmm.....

VVF

Don't you have to break them in for like 2-300 miles before pushing etc?

tommy

Normally, yes, but it looks like John lives on the edge.

jkowtko

No, I didn't push them to see when they would slip ... In fact, when I first hopped in the car in the Costco parking lot, for the first few accelerations the tires were very slippery and spun a bit on the asphalt without much effort. So I took it really easy for the first set of turns.

What I'm talking about is simply driving around the clover on a freeway intersection, or turns at intersections when you don't stop. You can pretty quickly tell if the tires are tight and whether or not there is over/under steer. These tires seem good at first impression. They don't seem as hard as the DWs ... but my impression may be skewed by having been running on worn DWs for the past several months.

As for Tommy's question ... the sport suspension is lower to the ground and has higher spring rates. so the feel is a lot different from the non-sport suspension. The non-sport tires are 16" I think and not as low profile. So I don't know if I would use as stiff a tire on the non-sport. The w203 non-AMG sport suspension runs with 225/45-17 and 245/40-17.

Also, the Costco price currently includes the $70 instant rebate from Michelin. Costco is good about that -- you get the mfg rebates instantly through Costco as you make the purchase -- no "mail-in" required. This rebate is now supposed to end on 3/1 after which the deal is not quite as sweet.

elektron3030

I purchased these tires from Costco the other day, hoping to install them next week. I have to get rid of the Uniroyal Tiger Paws that the previous owner had on. Why!?

I have been following this thread also. I am eager to hear your thoughts on the first few hundred miles.

VVF

elektron, you'll know why when the rear tires wear to 0/32 in 12k miles
(Ok, i may be exaggerating a bit here)

elektron3030

Haha. Oh no. Well my rear tires are just about gone and the fronts are still in great shape. I guess I'll just add that to the list of things to replace every year or so.

jkowtko

The factory set of tires (ContiProContact?) wore perfectly evenly as I remember, and I was impressed. After that, all tires I put on the car (General UHP Exclaim and Conit DW) wore 2x in the rear. I am now setting my expectations on a new set of tires every 18 - 24 months. I guess that's just the price of performance!

jtwillia2

Do you mean the DW or the DWS? I think you were saying DW's? I have the Conti ExtremeContact DWS and cannot praise them enough...

But admittedly, I also get Continental employee pricing so I'm a bit biased.

VVF

The word is that Conti dwS handle considerably worse then dW.
They wear much better though! And you can use them in winter.

jkowtko

Sorry ... DW's. Yes I just realized that it could look like I'm saying DWS with a typo.

After a week or so, still liking the tires. Hard to tell if they're actually softer than the DW ... seems like the PSS has a firm tire body with soft tread, if that makes any sense.

I had my first freeway drive today and I have to say the tires aren't necessarily quieter than the DW. it was a 75 degree day today with the roads nice and dry, and I could hear each pavement transition clearly as I made my way from Redwood City up to SF.

Handling wise I still haven't pushed the tires, but they do seem to steer effortlessly, with no over or understeer on the car that i can notice.

jkowtko

Okay, now I'm starting to feel the surface of the pavement, and almost a low rumble, as if one of my wheel bearings is on it's way out. But it may just be the tread on these tires isn't completely smooth. I can feel the vibration through the steering wheel and a tiny bit through the gear shift and seat/body of the car. It's very subtle, but the car doesn't feel as completely smooth as I remember. It's present at pretty much all speeds above a few mph, although at freeway speeds there is a lot else going on so harder to notice. Again it's pretty faint but it's there.

I'm not thrilled. I don't remember this with the DW or the Generals.

This weekend I'll have to jack up the front and spin the tires to make sure it's not a wheel bearing. I will also take a visual on the flex discs as I've been putting off replacing those for a couple of years now.

tommy

So any update on the tires? That special ran out, and now they're having a deal on Bridgestones through April 8th.

So I'm thinking about the Potenza S-04s, which are reasonable now with the discount, no shipping costs, and the $15 per tire installation/disposal fee.

How was it to have them do it? I'd want them to use my metal valve stems and not do the nitrogen filling if possible. Otherwise, I'd have to buy the tires there and get them mounted elsewhere, which will remove a good deal of the savings.

jkowtko

2 1/2 weeks now ...

The vibration still feels like it's there, but i can't tell if it's coming from the engine in the 2-3k rpm range, or is speed dependent, > 40mph. It doesn't seem like a bearing noise anymore ... on the freeway I'll drive between 60-80 mph and no apparent increase in the vibration. Sometimes I can't feel it at all. I know there is somewhat of a bearing issue on one of the belt accessories, it comes and goes. I'll have to track that one down at some point.

The tires definitely feel harder than stock as I feel imperfections in the road. Probably not any more than the DW though. However the handling is still pretty effortless ... no concerns at all about hard cornering. I haven't tried sliding the car yet to see where the breaking point is -- for now it handles hard cornering without complaint, and I still notice no over- or under-steer.

Overall the car is really quiet on good freeway pavement. I do have Dynamat in all four doors and recently replaced the front motor mounts, but things quieted down a lot when I put the new tires on. What I have to figure out is if the vibration has been there for a while and I'm just now noticing it because the tire noise has dropped below that level.

So far I'm still liking the tires. However the next time around I will probably be interested in trying out the RE760 or the PS3, depending on which one is on sale at the time. It would be great to find others who have recently installed these tires on their cars so we can compare ...

jkowtko

They replaced the valve stems with rubber ones, and they have green caps on them. Is the green for nitrogen? Or just an arbitrary color? In any case they look sportier to me so I'm leaving them as-is.

tommy

Green means that your car now gets more miles per gallon.

Yes, green means nitrous. That wouldn't match my smurfy color scheme, though.

Good luck with the vibration; very hard to ferret those little suckers out.

VVF

I heard that some tires develop 'flat spots' while the car is parked, could that contribute to the rumbling noise?