Norsk_Johnson

Apparently the W203's with the M271 engines have a timing chain issue around 60k-100k miles. I bought this car about a month ago with 85k miles on it for $9,000 and I've noticed this noise and done a TON of research. The only conclusion I can come up with is it's a possible loose timing chain upon start-up.

Can someone with some mechanical expertise PLEASE help. I don't want to lose this engine..

VIDEO:

RWDlifer

Mine sounded like that before I did the chain, which was barely stretched. I don't drive the C during the winter months, and it still sounds like that after sitting for a week or two. It's not the chain...it's the noisy variable cam timing that MB put on the M271. I'd say you're good.

VVF

So what's the sound of the lifters? I cannot figure out if it's from the adjusters or the lifters on mine

RWDlifer

Lifter noise is more distinct tap tap noise ie you can actually distinguish the individual taps. With chain noise you hear a continuous gravelly noise. Additionally, chain noise goes away within a few seconds, lifter noise can last several minutes until it's pumped with oil. On cars with non hydraulic lifters, such as my abused 98 civic, the only way to cure lifter noise is to pop the valve cover and adjust the valve lash.
lifter noise:

VVF

Ok, got it

Norsk_Johnson

Excellent information @RWD, but If you listen to my vid, the noise goes away after 3-4 seconds (like you said regarding the chain).

If it's the lifters, do you think a higher weight oil would help? Like 5w30 Mobil 1? Or even Lucan Oil Stabilizer - even though most MB owners appose the additive?
Thanks!

RWDlifer

It's normal for hydraulic lifters to drain down if the car is not started for a while. Some cars are better at this than others..with the M271 there seems to be no formula. I've gotten lifter tick after sitting overnight in mild temps, on the other hand it's gone weeks without any lifter noise. It doesn't bother me enough to change oil weights.

Glyn M Ruck

Pull a new timing chain & fit a new use once tensioner element immediately.

The minute you hear that cold start rattle that shuts up as the oil pressure rises it's time!

Zero lash hydraulic lifters on a Benz are pretty consistent in noise. Sometimes front of engine noise is cam adjuster rattle but yours sounds typical timing chain. They don't have to stretch much to jump & bend valves. These engines should have been fitted with duplex chains.

Norsk_Johnson

Thank you for your reply and diagnosis, Glyn. It's what I was afraid of, but I'm really glad to know now. I've been getting a lot of mixed answers on this, so I'm glad to receive your expertise.

I really don't understand why MB would only use ONE chain on an engine like this.. I unfortunately did not muscle this defect when negotiating the price on this vehicle, but oh well.

How many hours of professional labor does it require to do such a procedure? I've got a good MB Indy whom charges me $80/hour. I'd like to buy my own parts so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice. This Forum has been a HUGE help while owning my Benz.

jpman

While I never go against Glyns knowledge or information. I will have to say that based on my research in timing chain on that engine, that is not a loose timing chain noise. I narrowed it down to it being cam adjuster noise. That noise I had before my timing chain replacement and after as well. You can search the threads and you'll see my videos with the same sound.

I will agree with glyn and say replace it if it's possible. It is a a lottery from what I gathered. From my research the new timing chain is different and so is the tensioner.

VVF

I can add that on Russian forums people swear by 70k Kilometers chain replacement. There is a host of failures at that mileage. Chains, worn down sprockets, all the good stuff. One can only wonder what causes such rapid wear... Especially when compared to the US cars.

They seem to advise against sudden two-gear downshifts as that potentially leads to chain skipping the sprocket teeth.

RWDlifer

I concur...as in my earlier post, this rattle is not always indicative of a bad chain, but installing a new chain is always a good idea...that's what I did for peace of mind. At least now when I get the rattle I'm not concerned one bit.
OP, pull your valve cover and inspect your chain...it will give you a pretty good idea of it's condition. If there is any sag in it then replace. Also turn the engine by hand and observe if it any slack develops as you turn...it should stay taut through an entire cycle. Here is what mine looked like before I replaced the chain...which turned out to be stretched ~2mm at 121k miles.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...hain-pics.html

Norsk_Johnson

Well, I definitely intend on having it changed before 90K, that's for sure. RWD, I know you said there wasn't any cure to quieting down that sound at startup, but does anyone have any solution? -After changing TC, of course..

1) I don't want to cheap out on parts, so where can I find the "newer" version of this chain? I'd preferably like to buy the kit, if possible.

2) Off topic, where in the hell can I find a W203 M271 FLEECE oil filter? I can't find one for the life of me?

Thanks fellas!

RCPDesigns

This thread seems to imply you can't get fleece for the M271. https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ters-pics.html

Here are alternatives.

Mahle should be original to your car

http://www.rmeuropean.com/Part-Numbe...KOOvM4scw.aspx

Mann is a good option (original on W211 and others)

http://www.rmeuropean.com/Part-Numbe...E5OaS811w.aspx

The NAPA on S.R. 141 in Norcross usually carries them. Call first..

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...14X_0293955057

RWDlifer

I think to fix the rattle completely requires replacement of the camshaft variable timing components...major $$$$$$

Norsk_Johnson

I've looked up that MANN filter and all specs say it's paper, not Fleece. Am I misreading?

RWDlifer

MB dealers sell Hengst filters...Mahle and Mann are OK too
Forget the fleece....

RCPDesigns

The MANN filter for the 6 cylinder engines is fleece. The 4 cylinder engines (in the USA) all get paper filters. There are a few threads here about the topic but I don't see any where someone has managed to get fleece.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...e-filters.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...uestion-4.html

Norsk_Johnson

Yeah, that's what I figured, gents. I wonder why they aren't available in US. Oh, well - Guess I'll just change the filter out twice between oil changes.

Thanks fellas!

@RCP - Do you have any experience in changing timing chains OR know any Reliable Indy's in the area I could get for a good price? I live in Buckhead, but work in the Alpharetta area off Mansell. Thanks

VVF

Norsk, try to contact lilbenz230 (Matt is his name I think). I seem to recall he had some good indies in GA with very good prices.

Norsk_Johnson

Will do @VVF, Thanks man!

Glyn M Ruck

I appreciate all the comments. At your mileage the timing chain must be replaced anyway. Listening to the clip over fairly decent Sony powered speakers hooked to my computer it sounds like chain to me. Cam adjusters & chain make a very similar noise. Without being there with an auto stethoscope it's the best diagnosis I can do.

There is a de-burring procedure for the cam adjusters. It never works. The not so subtle difference is that if the chain jumps you have an expensive rebuild on your hands. If the adjusters rattle you can just put up with it. The only fix is new & expensive adjusters.

So the safe option even if people disagree with me is to pull a new chain & fit a new tensioner. Chain replacement should be a service item on the M271.

Norsk_Johnson

Thank you again, Glyn. I am very grateful for your input. Once question I do have is once I replace the chain, are there any preventative measures anyone could take to prolong the stretching of this chain? Obviously change the oil at the recommended intervals with Mobil 1 synthetic. Driving habits? Less frequent downshifts? Thanks again!

Glyn M Ruck

Nah! Just service it to the book & always use 229.5 approved engine oil. This is not a driving related issue. The only thing I will say is that changing the chain at your mileage gives the new chain a better chance of lasting. Once the sprockets start wearing due to a loose chain they damage/wear the new chain more quickly.

Glyn M Ruck

BTW ~ Fleece filters are no longer available in the US for M271.