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Hill Assist?!?!?!

 
Old 12-12-2007, 11:07 PM
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Hill....

<<Have this feature in my car and find it very useful. It not only holds the car in place at a stop then your headed up hill but also is useful when you're facing downhill and need to back up. A really great feature. The other down hill thing one of the other posts is refering to is a feature that helps the car decend safely OFF ROAD at like 4 to 10 miles per hour. I made the mistake of trying it while going around 15 mph... not a good idea. >>

Please do not confuse these ML features with W204 features. Hill start assist DOES NOT work facing downhill. Hell, it hardly works facing uphill. 2-3 seconds tops.
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by earlybird View Post
The following is a general explanation of "Hill Start Assist" technology. Drivers of maunual cars will find this technology most useful since the W204 cars do not have a "hand brake". (We have a foot operated parking brake).

Hill Start Assist
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hill Start Assist is a feature of some semi-automatic, cluchless transmissions, which prevents the car from rolling away when youre trying to pull away while on an up or down gradient, simulating a "handbrake hill start" manual drivers will be familiar with. The system engages automatically when a gradient of 3% or more is detected; it then acts to hold the car stationary for two seconds after the brake is released giving the driver time to get on the throttle.
So then it sounds like I do have a crappy tranny. Mine does "hold itself" when stopped on an incline as this describes, but it also slows itself down on steep slopes until I hit the gas-ie, if coasting downhill, it slows itself. If I hit the gas, it "let's go".
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post

Sensotronic Brake Control was abandoned and disowned by MB because of too many problems. No W211 has a manual trans. Here's a summary from a UK magazine:

<< Mercedes is dropping its high-tech brake-by-wire system from its E-Class and CLS ranges next year (2007) . Also used on the SL convertible, CL coupe and SLR supercar, Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) was introduced by Mercedes with the promise of enhanced braking performance. The manufacturer has been plagued by faults with the electronic system, however, recalling more than 100,000 cars in the UK alone for checks and fixes. Worldwide, some two million Mercedes have been recalled because of SBC.>>
First, there are countries besides the US, and in those countries there are W211s with manual transmissions. I have one, and I would not want it without SBC, the hold feature alone makes it worthwhile.

The system still lives on in the SL, CL, SLR, and I believe the S too, so there must be a reason only the most expensive models get it.
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LRM1 View Post
So then it sounds like I do have a crappy tranny. Mine does "hold itself" when stopped on an incline as this describes, but it also slows itself down on steep slopes until I hit the gas-ie, if coasting downhill, it slows itself. If I hit the gas, it "let's go".
Your vehicle seems to have an additional system called "Downhill Assist Control", which is different to "Hill Start Assist".

The following article explains how the two technologies work.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/021203.htm
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AsianML View Post
That makes perfect sense. How is it a half-baked solution? The hill start assist holds the brakes only when you stop with the brakes. How is the car supposed to know you want it held when the brake pedal isn't even touched when it's crawling?
as someone just mentioned, I would think it would know the incline of a car and act accordingly. Or, better yet since it is an auto slushbox, how about knowing that when the car is in drive going backwards is a time to kick in hill assist. As I understand it, automatics are unique in that they're not supposed to go backwards when in a forward gear? I mean a manual car in gear might go backwards (i.e., clutch depressed) on only a mere/imperceptible incline, or if being pushed, towed, or etc., but an automatic in gear? So I consider it a half-baked solution where it only kicks in when brakes applied. Unness they want me kill my brakes prematurely, I'd rather stop by gravity/friction whenever possible. Maybe that's just the manual driver in me (this is my first new auto car, and only my second auto car ever). Maybe they shouldn't call it hill assist, since it doesn't always help on hills, but rather call it incline start assist? Well, like I said, at least it is something. Wonder if this is how it is done on other cars, or if they have an incline sensor or something?
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Untertürkheim View Post
First, there are countries besides the US, and in those countries there are W211s with manual transmissions. I have one, and I would not want it without SBC, the hold feature alone makes it worthwhile.

The system still lives on in the SL, CL, SLR, and I believe the S too, so there must be a reason only the most expensive models get it.
The W221 does not have SBC, iirc.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 430752 View Post
as someone just mentioned, I would think it would know the incline of a car and act accordingly. Or, better yet since it is an auto slushbox, how about knowing that when the car is in drive going backwards is a time to kick in hill assist. As I understand it, automatics are unique in that they're not supposed to go backwards when in a forward gear? I mean a manual car in gear might go backwards (i.e., clutch depressed) on only a mere/imperceptible incline, or if being pushed, towed, or etc., but an automatic in gear? So I consider it a half-baked solution where it only kicks in when brakes applied. Unness they want me kill my brakes prematurely, I'd rather stop by gravity/friction whenever possible. Maybe that's just the manual driver in me (this is my first new auto car, and only my second auto car ever). Maybe they shouldn't call it hill assist, since it doesn't always help on hills, but rather call it incline start assist? Well, like I said, at least it is something. Wonder if this is how it is done on other cars, or if they have an incline sensor or something?
Does the manual say Hill Assist? On the W164 and X164 it says Hill-start assist.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Stick Girl View Post
Hill assist is wonderful for me with the 6 speed. I have to incline to exit the parking garage at work. I always have to stop for the gate to go up, so when I let off of the brake, I don't worry that I'll roll back onto the car behind me before I can clutch.
don't you think ALWAYS when you are on an incline, some idiot is RIGHT behind you, thereby putting more pressure on you to climb onto the brakes? This always seem to happen with me!!
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ni2mi2 View Post
don't you think ALWAYS when you are on an incline, some idiot is RIGHT behind you, thereby putting more pressure on you to climb onto the brakes? This always seem to happen with me!!
HAHA! I know what you mean. It took me a while to really figure out what the car was doing. I expected it to roll back like every other stick I've ever owned did. And was I surprised when it didn't. I found out about the hill assist from this board.
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Old 12-13-2007, 08:20 PM
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Downhill assist?? Not us.

<<Your vehicle seems to have an additional system called "Downhill Assist Control", which is different to "Hill Start Assist". The following article explains how the two technologies work.>>

Since the article (I just read it) clearly says the BMW X5, Land Rover and some Toyota SUV has downhill assist control, while not mentioning Mercedes at all and certainly not the W204, why did you post this??

This is the W204 forum, not MLs or some other MB models and features of other MB lines do not necessarily show up in our cars.
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Old 12-13-2007, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
<<Your vehicle seems to have an additional system called "Downhill Assist Control", which is different to "Hill Start Assist". The following article explains how the two technologies work.>>

Since the article (I just read it) clearly says the BMW X5, Land Rover and some Toyota SUV has downhill assist control, while not mentioning Mercedes at all and certainly not the W204, why did you post this??

This is the W204 forum, not MLs or some other MB models and features of other MB lines do not necessarily show up in our cars.
Well, W204s aside, the MB SUVs do have Downhill Speed Regulation which maintains speed between 3 and 10 mph (adjustable via MFD).
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
<<Your vehicle seems to have an additional system called "Downhill Assist Control", which is different to "Hill Start Assist". The following article explains how the two technologies work.>>

Since the article (I just read it) clearly says the BMW X5, Land Rover and some Toyota SUV has downhill assist control, while not mentioning Mercedes at all and certainly not the W204, why did you post this??

This is the W204 forum, not MLs or some other MB models and features of other MB lines do not necessarily show up in our cars.
The post was in response to a comment made by "LMRI" who drives an E-Class, and who was concerned that he had a crappy transmission because his car automatically slowed down when descending steep inclines.

Should we not inform him that there may be another technology working to control his car, or do you prefer us to sit back and let him think that something is wrong with his transmission..... because this is the W204 forum?
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Old 12-13-2007, 09:44 PM
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[<<The post was in response to a comment made by "LMRI" who drives an E-Class, and who was concerned that he had a crappy transmission because his car automatically slowed down when descending steep inclines.

Should we not inform him that there may be another technology working to control his car, or do you prefer us to sit back and let him think that something is wrong with his transmission..... because this is the W204 forum?>>

Well, just ask yourself, how could this oddball thing occur? It's either self applying brakes (hardly likely and notice the '08 does not have the accursed SBC) or an automatic hands-off downshift into 1st or 2nd gear.

Seems to me that this owner should talk to his salesman who perhaps did not fully describe the car's features or someone in authority at his dealer.

Or go to the W211 section and ask the question there.

So far there has not been one single useful answer on the 204 list, but just a lot of uninformed speculation.
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:28 PM
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Downhill controls

<<Well, W204s aside, the MB SUVs do have Downhill Speed Regulation which maintains speed between 3 and 10 mph (adjustable via MFD).>>

That's a feature found on many real off-road vehicles (Land Rover Etc) for descending rock-strewn mud covered off-camber 30 deg slopes which your average MB sedan wouldn't do, at least deliberately. Well, maybe dead drunk at 2AM.
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by earlybird View Post
The post was in response to a comment made by "LMRI" who drives an E-Class, and who was concerned that he had a crappy transmission because his car automatically slowed down when descending steep inclines.

Should we not inform him that there may be another technology working to control his car, or do you prefer us to sit back and let him think that something is wrong with his transmission..... because this is the W204 forum?
Yep. My fault. Sorry. Thanks you for the info though.
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Old 12-14-2007, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
[<<The post was in response to a comment made by "LMRI" who drives an E-Class, and who was concerned that he had a crappy transmission because his car automatically slowed down when descending steep inclines.

Should we not inform him that there may be another technology working to control his car, or do you prefer us to sit back and let him think that something is wrong with his transmission..... because this is the W204 forum?>>

Well, just ask yourself, how could this oddball thing occur? It's either self applying brakes (hardly likely and notice the '08 does not have the accursed SBC) or an automatic hands-off downshift into 1st or 2nd gear.

Seems to me that this owner should talk to his salesman who perhaps did not fully describe the car's features or someone in authority at his dealer.

Or go to the W211 section and ask the question there.

So far there has not been one single useful answer on the 204 list, but just a lot of uninformed speculation.
Alrighty then. Saw the "hill assist" on new posts and came here to ask a question. Did not mean to offend with a question about my E class. Sincerest apologies for the infraction.
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:34 PM
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<<Alrighty then. Saw the "hill assist" on new posts and came here to ask a question. Did not mean to offend with a question about my E class. Sincerest apologies for the infraction.>>

Nothing at all wrong with the question. It became clear pretty quick that no suitable answers for you were forthcoming.
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:49 PM
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Hill start assist test

I decided today to see for myself just what this feature could or would do, or not do.

So today I drove over to a very steep (VERY STEEP) paved hill near my home to conduct a few tests for myself.

First, descending the hill (1st gear) I came to a stop, depressing the brake fully. With the trans in gear, I released the brake pedal and the car started forward immediately. I stopped, selected 1st gear manually (displaying 1) and released the brake and the car rolled immediately. Which proves that hill start assist does not function with the car heading downhill.

I turned the car around and climbed to the steepest part of the street and stopped, holding the foot brake. trans in D position. After releasing the brake pedal, the brakes held for two seconds and released. I performed the same test, selecting 1st gear manually. Same thing, brakes released after two seconds. Since the car had done exactly the same thing on a street with very little slope previously, I proved that a steeper slope does NOT increase the brake hold time. Two seconds in both conditions.

If I had my way, the brakes would hold until I moved the gas pedal, whether it was two seconds or two minutes. Mother (MB) knows best, of course.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
I decided today to see for myself just what this feature could or would do, or not do.

So today I drove over to a very steep (VERY STEEP) paved hill near my home to conduct a few tests for myself.

First, descending the hill (1st gear) I came to a stop, depressing the brake fully. With the trans in gear, I released the brake pedal and the car started forward immediately. I stopped, selected 1st gear manually (displaying 1) and released the brake and the car rolled immediately. Which proves that hill start assist does not function with the car heading downhill.

I turned the car around and climbed to the steepest part of the street and stopped, holding the foot brake. trans in D position. After releasing the brake pedal, the brakes held for two seconds and released. I performed the same test, selecting 1st gear manually. Same thing, brakes released after two seconds. Since the car had done exactly the same thing on a street with very little slope previously, I proved that a steeper slope does NOT increase the brake hold time. Two seconds in both conditions.

If I had my way, the brakes would hold until I moved the gas pedal, whether it was two seconds or two minutes. Mother (MB) knows best, of course.


Thanks for sharing the info! Most of us will benefit from knowing what "hill assist" will do and will not do.
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Old 12-14-2007, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RLE View Post
If I had my way, the brakes would hold until I moved the gas pedal, whether it was two seconds or two minutes. Mother (MB) knows best, of course.
That is exactly how the SBC Hold function works.
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