xil

Hey guys, first time here. I created an account here because I've been thinking about upgrading to a CPO 09 C300 4Matic Sport. I found a bunch with <10k mi, practically just broken in.

I'm currently in a 2009 Mitsubishi Ralliart. I've been thinking about switching up to something a little more refined and I need help juggling the pro's and con's.

The things I enjoy about it:

-Childishly large rear wing and the aggressive front.
-Turns heads. Every weekend when I go out of the city, I have people looking or asking me questions.
-Fold down rear seats. (For my bike/snowboard/transporting floor lamps)
-Relatively good gas mileage for something I can toss around like a rag doll.
-Really good feed back from the steering wheel, not overly light and numb like most cars.
-In manual mode, the transmission is one of the fastest I've ever used. And in auto, it seems to read my mind.
-The EVO IX AWD system is hands down one of the best AWD systems out there.

Now.. the bad..

-Crappy dealer support compared to some of the luxury brands.
-Childishly large rear wing and the aggressive front.
-Turns heads. Every weekend when I go out of the city, I have cops looking as I drive by.
-Requires lots of fluid changes, and often.
--Transfer case.
--Active center differential.
--Dual clutch transmission.
--Oil every 3000 because the turbo tends to beat up oil a lot more.
-Noisy.
-Questionable reliability on the TC-SST dual clutch transmission. (As an engineer, I don't trust the first version of anything).
-Cheap interior.
-No memory seating. (Large height differential between me and the wife)

I have no doubts that the Merc will be a much more comfortable and refined ride.

Here's what I think I'm gonna be giving up:

-Less power and torque.
-Probably a more refined but lethargic ride.
-Lighter, less precise steering.
-Worse AWD system (which I probably won't notice 99% of the time).
-Slower transmission.
-No paddle shifters. (I love my paddles)

Here's what I think I'll gain:

-Great dealer support. Instead of getting a 10 year old hyundai with leaky brakes as a loaner (if I even get one), I'll usually end up with another C300.
-More understated and mature look.
-A lot quieter.
-Lot less maintainence. Oil change is every 10k and 1 transmission fluid change at 40. Otherwise, I don't remember seeing anything else major in the maintainence log.
-More reliable transmission design.

After its all over, the difference in price between finishing up payments on the Ralliart or restarting financing with the Merc is ~$10k. I can overlook this since it'll be over 5 yrs anyway.

I'm looking for the thing to last about 5-6 years (~120k miles) in good mechanical condition. I do mostly 75% highway driving with a lot of canyon carving in between, tarmac in summer and snow in winter.

I checked the Merc service manual and the maintainence seems to be minimal. It seems like literally half the maintainence on the Ralliart if not less, both in terms of items and cost; esp. if I purchase a prepaid maintainence plan from Merc. For those with the 4matic, are there any "extra" items that are not outlined in the standard service manual that I should be concerned about?

What do you guys think? Ride it out and get the Merc later or switch up now? The wrench in the equation is that the wifey has preapproved getting a P-car as our next car if I can cough up the down payment, which the 10g's saved now would help with.

Thanks for reading, I know I can be a bit verbose at times.

whiteongrey

These two cars are in different leagues all together and comparing them makes no sense at all.

Sportstick

First of all, what is a P-car?

Moving to a C Class will feel like a giant step toward a more "mature" car, especially with a 4MATIC which means automatic trans. This combination is NOT about driving excitement....we have it in an E Class, and other threads here suggest C Class 4MATIC does not provide driving "thrills" for long. It would be top of the class for outstanding engineering, safe, comfortable, durable, reasonably responsive, great ride, and good handling. I would have some concern that this might be a tad underwhelming for you, unless you make the leap to a C63. Just reading between the lines, I'm sensing a 3 series rwd or x-drive or at a lower price point, a VW GTI for you, if you can live with FWD instead of AWD. Just my hunch....

xil

Thanks for the response. I know it's hard to compare the 2 and a lot of people have an attitude about it.
I definitely think the more "mature" attitude is one of the reasons why I was thinking of moving up (though I really have no desire to ever grow up). I'm really not in it for the "thrills" per say. I red line the car maybe once a week and I've never driven it at 10/10ths, which means pretty much anything ~200 hp can satisfy my needs. I've though about the GTI, accord, etc but for the primary car, I really would like AWD since I go snowboarding every weekend in the winter.

You read my mind right, I would really like something like the C63 but the wifey really likes Porsches. The next car we're getting would most likely be a 911. So right now, I'm just trying to decide what to do with the current car for the next 6-8 yrs. I guess my real beef is that we tend to keep purchases for a while and that the amount of money I would've spent on this car, is almost the same amount as the C300. I understand the performance makes up for some of it but like I said, I never really drive 10/10ths anyway so it's a moot point. I'm a member of a few Mitsubishi forums so I know what kind of problems the car has. I'm aware of the positive points of the C300 from initial reviews but I'm wondering if anyone has any critical long term opinions on it.

Sportstick

P-Car!! I guess it's not an abbreviation, as it's still two syllables, but we just use "Por" and "Shuh"!

Sounds like you're soon going to be enjoying your C3004MATIC! For the winter, be sure to allow enough in your budget for 4 rims with Blizzak WS70 and TPMS sensors included (see tirerack.com). Too many forum members wonder why their 4MATIC slides around in the winter, only to realize they have the OE supposedly "all season" tires, which perform poorly. With Blizzak, even my rwd does very well in the Michigan snow/ice, although I have not challenged it with more of a hill than my driveway.


P.S. Congratulations on the proper spelling of "moot". English often is destroyed around here, and one more "mute" point could drive me over the edge!!

MBnewby

you would be bored i think. check out a335 bimmer for more sport and some maturity over the mitsu.

xil

Can the Merc recognize 8 wheel sensors at once? I know on the Mitsu, it's only 4 at once and you can't reprogram it yourself (the tool is like 4 grand). It's stupid cause u gotta pay 60 bucks every time you swap wheels or put up with the TPMS warning.

Sportstick

Not sure what you mean "at once"....it's four at a time! You can equip your summer wheels with sensors, and also equip your winter wheels with their own sensors, and then just swap the entire wheel/tire assembly as the seasons change. It's just jack up and lug nuts and you're off (somehow, that doesn't sound proper, but say it carefully)! The car picks up the sensor in each wheel. Works perfectly!

dcjwlee

I won't gripe about how it's difficult to compare the two cars since they are the two options you have at the time, so it makes SENSE to compare them. (Others feel the need to just chime their two cents about how this is a stupid comparison without any actual input... @whiteongrey)


Be warned OP, not all dealers will give you first-class treatment. In fact, a lot of the hype about MBZ service is mostly the personal joy we get from walking into MBZ instead of Mitsubishi or Hyundai etc...

I've had plenty of crappy service (waiting for 3 hours, getting no work done on the car, and being handed an invoice from the cashier and then ushered out the door without meeting my SA to see WHY they made me wait so long and did nothing [huntington mercedes]) and I've had great service (gone in unannounced, saw the SA in 5 minutes and was out in 15 with a loaner[helms bros bayside]).

The steering being too light is definitely an issue with some converts. The variable steering assist helps somewhat, but yes MBZ steering is very light when compared to some domestic brands and bimmer. However, I feel like the steering is MUCH more communicative in the w204 than it was in the '03 e class or '06 ml500. Road feedback is deecnt as well.

There are some minor gripes with the 2009 model that may have you looking towards the 2010 or 11 instead.

First, the side mirrors are large and placed rather high up in your sightline out the window. What this results in is a decent amount of wind noise despite a stellar CoD (No, you won't notice it with the radio even lightly on, but it IS there bc of the side mirrors). The 2010 model has corrected this problem by placing smaller, more angular mirrors that are situated lower than the previous models.

Second, some complain about the 2009 MY sport rims. They are plain jane rims and look unoffensive at best. They take up a ton of surface area and don't allow you to show off your drilled brake rotors and the mercedes-benz emblem on the caliper.

The 2010 has opted for a sportier 5 spoke style and even offer an "amg" branded 6 twin-spoke rim in the 17" size. (mind you, they look much nicer as 18" rims that come in the sport appearance package in my E350 coupe). Still, I would have liked to see an even thinner rim design to show off the drilled rotors.

If it's the more mature look that matters most to you, go mercedes.

Let me note one somewhat serious recurring issue here, since you mention high maintenance costs as a problem, the sport model fog lamps are notorious for cracking again and again. I've had one crack the day after I coughed up $350 + USD to fix it. This however, can be resolved by buying a sheet of Lamin-x protective film for a few bucks and cutting them to size to fit the fog lamp, no one will notice them, so don't worry about that. Some people never have a problem with cracking, others have a lot.

Another thing I noticed is that the fog lights become pitted and yellowed very very fast... (Within 35,000 miles for me.) That is NOT the case with the headlights (although I'd still apply 3m or some other film over it).

xil

I guess what I mean is, the computer stores the ID's of 1 set of wheels at once. If I swap another set of wheels out, it won't recognize it. I have to bring it into the dealer to have them program that set of ID's into the car, at which point I lose the programming on the old set.

Some cars can recognize 2 sets (8 sensors) at once because it can store the IDs of 2 sets of sensors in the computer.

xil

That's funny because thats the exact problem that the Mitsubishi's have. For some reason, maybe it's heat or just poor choice in materials, the fog light lenses have been known to crack. I too have 3M over my headlights and fog lights.

My reasons for moving over are beyond just the maturity or luxury. I wanted something with better support and more proven parts (the Ralliart dual clutch transmission is nonserviceable, they have to replace the entire unit, which has a retail part cost of over $9000) and figured if I am spending a little bit over and I get a better product for it (in terms of the overall package, not performance) then all the better. I'm also looking at the 328xi, a3/4, TL-shawd, is250awd, and g37x. I just happen to personally think there's more panache in the Merc.

Aggressive

Ok, Let me provide some advice from someone who has gone through this. First, I noticed you said you were and engineer. I am too. Like minded individuals. I made some big changes when I switched over to my C300. Years ago, I had an FD RX-7....still my favorite car till this day, however, extremely unreliable. I then bought an Infiniti G35 Coupe, great car too, but horrible winter driving. That is what sparked the purchase of my C300. I love the AWD, love the ride, etc. The RX-7 was my favorite car but above all, the C300 has been the best car I have ever owned. If I could have an RX-7 in my garage and drive my C300 to work everyday, I would be the happiest guy in the world. The maturity and refined vehicle is truely a trophy of growing up and becoming successful. Your on the right track. I have had my C300 for 3 years and plan to keep it for another 3 years. I am thinking that I will upgrade to an E-Class at that point. In the mean time, I gotta work on my wife to get that RX-7......lol One last thing, I thought about getting an Evo X at the time I purchased the Benz, I just could not spend that much money on a Mitsubishi. Also didn't want the stess of cops staring me down. It seems like the cops look away when they see me driving the Benz.

jctevere

I think its a worthy comparison. I too have had my fog light crack, but I didn't go to the dealer,bought the part online and installed it in about 30 minutes myself for $90 out the door from online part store shipped to my house. I have since put lamin-x on my fog lights and headlights (just for safe measure) and haven't had a problem since... *knock on wood*

I am a bit surprised that you were saying that maintenance is cheaper, perhaps if you do the 10k mobil 1 synthetic oil change yourself and do inspections and know how to flush brake lines every 2 years. But if you bring it to the dealer, be prepared to be bent over... The price greatly varies by region, but over here on Long Island in new york, huntington mercedes (where I bought my c) wanted $350 for service a (first year or 10k mile service) and around $450-$500 not counting any brake flush (for about $100 more) for service b (second year or 20k mile service).

Some dealerships run specials though, I got rallye to do service A for me for only $200.

But if you are a do it yourself kind of guy, those costs can be brought down, drastically. The car is pretty easy to service yourself too, from oil change, to brakes. The only thing is a 4-matic fluid flush I believe at every 3years. But it will be in the manual for regular service. Thats all.

It is also a different league of car and treatment. One annoying thing about these cars, especially 4 matics, is the amount of brake dust I get on the rear bumper and on the rear wheels. I think there is a service bulletin out for it to fix that, but if you have to replace brake pads, go ceramic, no brake dust at all...

Some feedback from being a prior g37 coupe and g35x owner. The g37 is much more refined than the g35 engine, and FAST. But not a huge difference, but those cars will blow the c300 away, they are perfect sleepers for street light races, in 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. In a recent winter snow storm earlier this year in north east the g35x was a BEAST and went through 4+" on unplowed snow with ease. It isn't 24/7 awd like the c300, but there is a button for snow that makes it all-time while engaged (not recommended to drive that way permanently.) And all that performance takes a toll on the gas mileage, I only averaged about 19-20 over the life of my 3 year lease. The c300 does much better wil a 23-24 mpg average. But the service on the infiniti was very cheap, cheapest car to service I have ever had, minus brake job (but I did that myself).

I have looked at the 3-series. The x-drive is a bit more advanced that 4-matic, and my c300 4-matic wasn't the best in the snow, would slide sometimes, but car would quickly correct, I suspect this is due to my all season tires and not having snow tires which people say perform much better. But the g35x had all-seasons and the car did great, even when partially balding. But back to the 3-series, I felt the interior was bland and the "benefits" the salesman said like very good brakes were not my cup of tea. When I barely tap the brakes I fly through the windshield. Its ok, but a bmw is not a mercedes. My grandmother had the w203 (prior c-class model) and I hated it, I love the w204, and my sister just picked up a 2011 with the led running lights.

I would definitely recommend the car, but it is pretty expensive to maintain (especially if brought to the dealer), and surprisingly, was more to insure than the g37 or g35; but not drastic. Overall, the car is no slouch, but it could easily come off as slow because the pedal needs more "loving" to react. Some say this can be remedied by resetting the adaptive driving which adjusts the accelerator sensitivity based on your driving style.

One last thing, mercedes has pretty cool perks. I was given two tickets to the U.S. Open with seats valued at $625 each, amazing seats! I do get mercedes loaners when I go to dealerships, which is cool, and sometimes you get to drive different models. But I have occasionally seen people get enterprise rentals when there are no mercedes loaners left at smaller dealerships on busy or popular days. Best of luck to you whatever you decide to do!

lzajdel2002

I recently acquired a c300 4matic to replace my Audi TT that was totaled in a collision. My TT was seriously modded ( nearly 300hp, suspension upgrades, awd controller upgrade etc.). The benz is obviously a very different car and I am very happy with it because I don't compare it with my TT.
With the exception of an occasional autocross, I find that 99.5% of my driving is simply getting from point A to B and the benz does it with refinement and comfort. I will not autoX the benz now that the TT is gone. Fortunately, my wife has a MINI and I will sweet talk her into letting me autoX the MINI.

whiteongrey

Some good info there!

Lineage and Provenance are irreplaceable and take a 100+ years to build.

There's nothing like the MB star from any view point.

Sure the Jap brands can engineer and build great "product" - but in the end MB is the pinnacle of renowned German auto.

Knowing you are in a car backed with more than a century of auto sport victory - even in the 21st century - it is priceless.

Know that you will get very bored with any Jap lux brand quickly simply because there is no emotional connection - no provenance - no legend.

Every one I know that have one are bored after 4 weeks max. All of them admire my Benz even if their jap car cost twice as much.

Good luck!

RLE

None of this applies to the Mercedes so put it out of your mind.