NJBNZ

Kneeding it just means rolling/turning/twisting every so often...in a way it "cleans" the clay as it hides any particles you pull off your paint so they don't scratch your paint as you're working the clay around. You'll notice the clay will get dirty as you use...just a few twists, turns and folds and you'll have a new piece

Matt_Eurojerks

You do have a point with the cleaner wax. Hmmm, might have to change that up. Once you get that routine set you just do it automatically you know...?

K-A

Damn, that's a lot of steps. Doesn't a Cleaner Wax work just like a regular Wax, only with Polishing attributes? I guess if you want to throw on extra coats, you obviously don't want to throw on too much Cleaner/Polish Wax.

I'm gonna try my hand at Sealant this time around, as my researches have found that its protective abilities are superior to Wax.

AZN Optics

Yes, synthetic sealants will give you more/longer protection than wax. Sealants will give you a hard candy look, while wax will give you a deeper gloss. You can always top a sealant with a wax. Just make sure the sealant has typically 24 hours to cure before applying a wax on top.

K-A

So the general consensus is that Wax provides a better shine? I figured that might be the case.

encoder

Wanted to chime in..

1) Don't be afraid of Clay. I used to be. Just wait, you'll see, it's pretty easy going. BUT... don't buy it at autozone. If you already have, return it. Order the good stuff. Everybody has a favorite brand. I perefer DP (Detailers Paradise), from autogeek.net.

2) Clay WILL probably remove most wax -- i mean, it's meant to remove overspray on the paint -- but I agree that dish soap is fine. HOWEVER, if your car is dirty, don't use JUST dish soap. The reason is, it doesn't have very good lubricity. You could add some cocoanut oil to the dishsoapy water, OR, mix dishsoap along with your regular soap.

3) If you (or a previous detailer or dealer) applied any rubber dressing, dish soap WILL remove that, leaving your rubber looking more faded. If you know none has been applied, don't sweat it. And either way, you can buy some trim dressing on AutoGeek that you can then apply after you wash it.

4) Apply a sealant twice a year. Wax it 4 times a year. That's what I do at least. Works for me

K-A

Sweet, thanks. That makes sense. I was assuming Clay's gotta remove some Wax.

AZN Optics

Clay will strip your LSP. And you should also be careful what kind of clay you use. There are grades to clay. Less aggressive clay might not be able to pick up as many contaminants as more aggressive clay, however more aggressive clay can cause marring on paint that will need to be polished out.

When it comes to clay, lube lube lube. You want something with a good about of lubricity. Most quick detailers will work, although I prefer to use my Optimum No Rinse clay lube dilution for it's cost value/performance. Best lube I've ever used has to be Finish Kare 425.

As for sealants, not all sealants are created equal and the amount of time before reapplying will depend on what environment you store you car in. If it's garage kept, quality sealants can last 3-4 months. Outside kept, I'd expect a sealant to lose effectiveness after 2 months. Some of the more popular sealants among the detailing community include Blackfire Wet Diamond, Optimum Opti-Seal, Menzerna Powerlock, and Collinite 845. You'll want to make sure your surface is proper prepped to ensure good bonding between the sealant and paint.

Encoder: It's Detailer's Pride, not Detailer's Paradise

There are lots of articles and forums out there that can assist. Autogeekonline.net, detailingbliss.com, autopia.org, meguiarsonline.com, etc etc

We spend stupid money on our cars, it only makes sense to spend some quality time to keep them looking fabulous.

pmb600

K-A, I personally wouldn't use dish soap because I do think it can dry out some of the rubber seals in the doors and around the windows. What you can do is clay the vehicle and then do an isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) wipedown on the painted surfaces. Between claying and alcohol you will remove old wax. If you ever visit any detailing websites you can get a lot of good info, and you will see they write IPA (isopropyl alcohol) wipedowns as the acronym.

K-A

Awesome info, thanks

Just to clarify, does LSP mean Wax? Also, any tricks I should know on how to get Sealant to bond? I was just planning on washing (then I guess claying now, against my will), then sealant.

One "trick" I've learned, and I'm sure a lot of people will think I'm crazy, is I don't use soap, ever (only before I Wax/Detail). Soap is essentially a light abrasive, and considering I keep my car garaged, and clean, I use a chamois and water, and gently clean it spotless. I've done this with all my nicer cars, and they always are known to be some of the cleanest out there, and have a lasting shine. IMO, if you can keep a car clean with water, it will obviously help it last longer in terms of non-dulling, than soap will. Also, I find that it helps the coats of wax last much longer.

PMB: Argh, thanks for the info man, but now you've confirmed my fears about dish soap. I just have a paranoia about letting that abrasive stuff touch my ride.

Oh well, I'm just gonna have to wing it, and see what I decide last minute! Lol. If I get tired of this paint thing, I'll just wrap the car in matte white someday (although I'm sure that will come with its own troubles).

JimPap

Me too.

I wouldn't say that this car is any harder to clean but I would say that it sure seems to get dirtier a lot faster...especially that rear end.

Moto_Guzzi

I find my car C350 calcite-white easy to wash. Car was not "treated" when bought on my request.

My wifes B170 was treated and is a dog to get clean in the front. The garbage/insects stick like glued to front parts, blue colour.

C300Sport

Curious what you guys think of my method:
I have never clay barred buy I have always cleaned a panel and then ran my bare hands across it while it is nice and soapy. It is amazing how sensitive your hands are...I can find the tiniest little specks of stuck on particles and simply scratch them off with a finger nail. This has always worked well and I have always felt a wet finger nail could never scratch the paint. (I had a black Mazda Millenia S that looked and felt better than new after 8 years of this method)
I am thinking this is basically a poor mans, labor intensive version of a clay bar but if you do it from new and keep her waxed, there is rarely more than a couple Klingons per panel, if any.

Do you think clay barring every year or two would still offer benefits?

NJBNZ

Great info AZN. In regards to the sealants...are any of the ones you mentioned available at Autozone or other automotive stores...or are they only available online? What store-bought sealants would you recommend?

AZN Optics

LSP = Last Step Product and typically refers to wax or sealant (or even glaze in some cases).

Just cleaning with water might be ok for some instances when you have very light dust, but you'll need to run water continuously, otherwise water will roll off and you won't get any lubricity. I wouldn't use just water if you have dirt, industrial contaminants, embedded brake dust, etc. Automotive soaps do not have any abrasive in them at all and the foaming suds action will keep the soap on the panel longer instead of rolling off and work towards seperating dirt from panel. Polymers and other lubricity agents will keep the surface slick enough so that each swipe induce swirls/scratches.

Also, if you're paranoid enough about abrasives in soap, I wonder what wash media you're using? You'd be surprised at how several wash media including microfiber towels can scratch paint. One easy way to test this out is to use the CD test. Take your wash media, swipe it across a CD and see if it leaves any scratches.

Finger nails removing imbedded particles will just take a painfully long period of time and depending on what car you have, wil damage the clear. It's probably not as bad for our 204s with the harder ceramic clear, but for softer paint, you're leaving scratches behind.

Those brands I mentioned are special boutique brands (although sometimes you can find Collinite at odd places). Autozone, Pepboys, or any of those others won't carry those brands. You're basically stuck with Megs and Mother's consumer line. I'd just order a good sealant from autogeek or stop by their shop next time you go to Palm Beach area.

A really good OTC wax for those who don't know and really at a bargain basement price is Autoglym HD Wax which you can pick up at Walmart/Wally's World. These were originally $80 boutique waxes from Europe that Autoglym decided to use Walmart to distribute here in the US. However Walmart marked it down to $40 which caused a frenzy among the detailing community and burned several retailers who were carrying their product. It's now on clearance for $20 which is an absolute steal.

K-A

Sounds interesting and good. And I've used my finger nail countless times (although not always when wet), and I'll say that I have left tiny, hard to see scratches behind.

Thanks the the info AZN. I use a Chamois, always have, and it's the only way my "water method" works.

I've gotten the car immaculate after it's been even heavily dirty, just using a LOT of lubrication (water). However, my car is garaged, so it rarely gets too intense. Also, obviously having a coat of Wax/Sealant on it is paramount.

But yeah, been doing this since my Mustang GT in the early 00's, which was always ridiculously shiny, my previous Benzes, and this one. Never gotten scratch swirls, and always have been able to get off all particles that soap can. I agree, it sound pretty weird in theory.

NJBNZ

AZN...Just did a quick search of the available OTC sealants and found Meguiar's has a Polymer Sealant and Synthetic Sealant...what's the difference between the two...if any?

AZN Optics

Those are from the Mirror Glaze line which isn't OTC. Mirror Glaze is Meguiar's professional detailer line and even though Meguiar's is considered an OTC brand, I'd consider that particular line to be boutique.

If you were looking at those two though, I'd go with the Synthetic Sealant (#21) as Polymer Sealant (#20) has cleansers which personally I don't want to see in a sealant.

K-A

AZN: What do you know about TFP Sealant?

I bought it at the Auto Show because I was sold by the guys amazing display of its attributes and abilities. Also, it came with a nice rubbing compound (to remove scratches/blemishes, etc.), and a pad, for just $20 (over half off savings).

I believe it's a Polymer Sealant? So it would have Cleaner additives? I'm okay with that, as I like to use regular Wax, then Cleaner Wax, then regular, then Cleaner, etc. etc. So I'm due for a light Cleaner. However, I could have sworn the guy told me there were no cleaning attributes in it.

pmb600

AutoGlym HD is awesome! That's what I used to wax my E back in October and there is still wax protection on it now into the winter. K-A I would highly recommend this wax for your detail. It is a carnauba wax but also has polymers in it which help it to last longer. I would also have to second using a good car shampoo. I use Meguiar's Gold Glass. Car Shampoo is not abrasive and helps to carry away particles rather than rubbing them on the paint. You probably can get your car clean without soap, but you are most likely inflicting swirls.

AZN Optics

TFP is pretty old stuff that peaked back in like 04ish. No one really uses it now cause there are much better products for the same price range. You want a good long lasting sealant, pick up a bottle of Collinite 845. That runs like $10.

K-A

Aright, bringing this baby back for one more run.

So I'm about to embark on my first Sealant process. It's going on 4 months since I waxed my car (Meguire's Carnuba), and although it's driven through some strong rain, it's been garaged a lot, and babied, and it's not driven a crazy amount. The wax is certainly not as slick as when new, but the car definitely "feels" like it has some protection over it. Is it safe to assume that I can go about Sealing the car, without the worry that there is still some wax left on the paint (after this amount of time, and all things considered)?

I'm still planning on Claying it, but wanted to know whether it's realistic that there is wax left over on the paint anyway. Thanks.

Scat01

Interesting, I think the exact opposite, my wifes RX is the easiest car I have ever owned to hand wash - and I am meticulous to point of OCD when it comes to washing cars.

I agree with the OP, my CTS and the RX are both much "easier" to wash than this C350 - lots of body lines and trim are the main culprits IMO...neither are as fun to drive...

encoder

Claying will remove any latent wax.

What sealant are you using?

Scat01

The claying process will remove the wax - you are good to go...