superangrypenguin

Thank you so much. Ok, that's not that bad at all. I've seen that after 5-10,000km on a 2.0 TFSI engine with Audi, so that's actually not bad at all (especially with the MPG improvements that a DI engine offers).

Thanks for sharing this! (and welcome to mbworld sir!)

sovekupe

You're quite right, not so bad yet, but I don't feel comfortable knowing that's there.
Have talked to Mercedes and they do not have a process that manages this issue (they say).
They just pass me on to a local specialist in engine renovation.
It still runs ok and no misfires.

Cosworth2000

Hey there... I used to own a business where I help reduce and keep these parts clean. I know many people who did not know about the product or think that ALL products are the same however this one is not near anything since it was never made or used for personal use but for commercial use. The name of the company now is call Fuel Direct gas and diesel Enhancer or something like that. It looks like a clear liquid which contains no oil properties. It was made to be use like many other cleaners however it takes away water from the fuel. Uncompleted combustion is what causes carbon buildup. This could mean that your fuel injectors are not spraying small enough to combust. The fuel direct enhancer will help with this, remove the water from your tank and fuel and help reduce and break down the carbon all without oil or ethanol us.

I do not own the company, I am not part of the company in anyway however I have saved companies millions in fuel cost, reduced engine wear and tear and out matched any over the self product which are all oil base products. Reach your own and hope if this is not a solution for you, that you find one that works.

superangrypenguin

I really mean this respectfully, but I'm calling "bullsh**" on this one.

Before I completely rip this post to pieces, I'll ask this. How do you administer this product?

Cosworth2000

I'm just sharing it.. I make no money from it.

I just know how it works, and see what it really does. Not just speak about what it does but seen and noticed what it really does.

If I had the videos of what it looked like inside I would share that however since I sold the complete business, I no longer have any content but just my memory.

superangrypenguin

[bolding is mine]

Ok - how does it work then?

Cosworth2000

Here is the maker of the product which I had exclusive licence to. I sold that business and licence who now has sales reps all over the world.

You can check out the video and it's customers on the corporate website since I do not have any documentation but you can request it.

http://www.xp3.com/

superangrypenguin

Ok...they sell a lot of products. I can't locate the product you're referencing?

mleskovar

They specialize in fuel treatments. Won't help clean the intake tracts of a DI engine.

Cosworth2000

Yes, it will help to clean the intake. It will not remove 100% but when the combustion happens and the valves start to get cleaner, the more complete combustion will actually clean where the valve head sits and about 30-50% behind the valve.

This is the most beneficial as the valves will close more completely reducing wear and tear on that part of the engine system. I used to have a before and after picture of valves which were to show how much they reduce carbon buildup while cleaning other parts of the fuel and intake system.

I hope this helps. I can only tell you that my last Mercedes "C350" when it was in for oil changes, they were amazed at how clean the oil was even after 20,000km per oil changes.

If you have not noticed on your bill of receipt you will see that Mercedes will also put some kind of cleaning additive in your fuel tank sometime during your service years. I asked to see it and they showed it to me. There’s was petrol based in nature however there was no one of technical or chemical knowledge like I am at the dealership level to even know the difference between how certain products work and their value

superangrypenguin

There's only one substance that is a fuel additive that can survive combustion which is PEA. (phospho ether amine?) How much PEA is in that liquid?

And even if it has high amounts of PEA, you can be assured your flashpoint in your oil will drop substantially due to fuel dilution.

Any, and I mean ANY solution which is done this way (Added to gasoline) will not be able to remove carbon in any substantial manner.

There are a TON of boroscope tests on Youtube with people providing proof that even the best well known brands do jack s*** when it comes to removing carbon buildup.

Short of proof, I don't believe you, and if your claims were true, you'd be rich b/c DI engines are the way manus are going, and they can't even solve this issue - so if a simple $20 bottle or whatever was going to fix it, they'd be buying this stuff en masse

mleskovar

+1 But my mind can be changed with proof.

There's been success with changing valve timing, piston crown, etc. My understanding is with less build up comes less power. Also, DI engines aren't most efficient at high rpm and using both DI and standard injection solves both problems. Cost takes a hit though.

superangrypenguin

I agree. I'd HAPPILY eat my words if a solution can resolve this problem. I REALLY want the latest E class or even a SWB S class, but this DI/carbon thing has turned me way off. I'd love to see proof so I can eat my words.

I agree with you that there are ways to address this; however, with emission standards being where they are, there will always be a PCV valve and there will always be a combustion cycle that comprises of "crap" that will pass through the intake valve for recombustion. That crap is what leads to intake valve buildup of carbon. Until that gets resolved, this issue will remain (or dual injection with PFI and DI being used will help with this issue)

Cosworth2000

Here we go.. I'm not selling anything. And yes, I made lots of money while owning the licence. To answer further, there are over 150+ fuel additives in the world and you only see about 20 or so on the selves. Xp3 Labs has over billions in sales and has very large clients. Africa uses Xp3 Fuel Enhancers in their fuels at the pump just like say Sunco or other brand names you see driving around the city. BP oil fuel stations in Africa us Xp3 as their main additive as an Enhance fuel. This is a worldwide used product. Like I said in my previous post however, I do not sell it any more. Someone ask for help and because of my extensive knowledge on fuel and it's chemical make up, I offer them the same help as I would speak to the many commercial business clients.

I am home now and scanned my computer for all my documents and I found most of them.


Xp/Xp3 in Ghana





Xp3 in Brazil




Xp3 Sponsored Rally Car

I want everyone to know that I do not care if you use the product or don't use it. I know while I sold it to Canadian companies I had many that did not believe. Many that thought that all products are created equal like burgers all taste the same.

The open minded ones, took the test drive (it was money back guaranteed). They saw the results and I turned mechanics from skeptics to a believer. Many even started using the product in their own person vehicles. I have product in my garage and use it still for it's water dispersing properties to maintain my lawn mowers and snow blowers fuels since it can stop fuel degrading in storage for up to 1 years. I don't have much so I used it from time to time in my current car. It's not sold in Ontario (currently clients still receive it) where I live right now however I have the option in my contract to regain this Province if I do so within a time frame.

So to this end, I will not be writing anymore since I'm not selling a bag of tricks or trying to convince anyone since I know people tent to make claims on products or services they have never used in their lifetime but for anyone that is interested, this product speaks for itself for anyone who has used it. It's been around since 1980 and has been enhansed as the world needs change.

Side note. The company makes over a billion each year selling he product on the worldwide market.

In this link you can see where Xp3 is sold all around the world. http://xplab.com/distributors




Xp3 Measured and poured into the fuel sump

And lastly





Another Xp3 Sponsored Rally Car

superangrypenguin

I don't see any intake valve photos of before the product was applied and after the product was applied. I appreciate the effort but....

mleskovar

Actually no. The carbon buildup has been analyzed and found to be from the raw gasoline! What little makes it past the intake valve before it closes is the problem. Tuning valve overlap can minimize it down to almost nothing but the performance suffers. So yes, an additive can stop the buildup but it can't clean off the buildup. There's a good explanation on the W203 forum about the causes of carbon buildup.

superangrypenguin

Are you able to provide evident/e.g. cite please? I'm curious to read more about this!

(and wait, W203 forum? That didn't affect that body style but sure, if there's info on it there I'd really appreciate a link so I can read further) Thanks!

mleskovar

It was a couple of years ago. I can't remember the thread or why it was talked about there when the M272 wasn't DI. I do remember the poster's name.... Glyn Ruck (he wasn't the OP on the thread though). There was a lot of discussion about using catch cans to minimize the problem because the prevalent line of thought was the problem came from oil in the recycled crankcase vapor. Scientists analyzed the carbon deposits and found trace elements only found in gas.... not oil. Also, the problem was noted to be much worse in the US and that's because we formulate our gas differently. And when you think about valve timing and piston crown shapes changing the problem it also leads to believe the issue is raw gas getting past the valve opening into the tract.

superangrypenguin

I think I may have read that thread. The problem is worse because DI engines are run rich due to the high amount of sulphur in our fuel. It's a main reason why our DI engines don't run on very lean mode. Hence why FSI in the world of Audi/VW means two different things. In Europe, it's referred to fuel stratified injection, and in the US it's called fuel straight injection - the engines perform differently.

I have done extensive testing of motor oil both in non DI and in DI engines and have learned a LOT about this - although I am not a self professed expert. I would consider myself an informed consumer but am open to proof. I don't recall in that thread what report came back that says the intake valve stuff is essentially unburnt gasoline. I find that very hard to believe, but if you happen to come by that post with the report back from the lab, I'd definitely appreciate it. If not, no worries - it's the internet, no need to get into an invigorated discussion about direct injection engines

mleskovar

No report. It was Glyn giving a reader's digest version of the investigation. He spent a career in the motor oil business. The reason they pinned it on the gas is elements in the carbon only came from gas. Where else would the carbon come from then? Instead of going through combustion it would cook on the hot spots creating the build up over time. I agree with you. If there was an easier way than walnut shells I'm sure they'd be using it by now.

NZ-Merc

Hi Guys,
We used to get a lot of import vehicles from Japan to New Zealand and they had EGR systems installed and most of them suffered from carbon build up especially diesel vehicles.

What I have done to overcome this is unbolt the EGR valve and install a solid gasket with no hole for the exhaust gas to re-enter the inlet manifold and that would stop the deposit build up.

With Diesel engines we would take the inlet manifold off and clean everything out.

superangrypenguin

Interesting. If that's the case, then an intake cleaner that's high in PEA should help. Wondering if someone has tried doing a before/after with one of those additives on a MB DI engine.

NZ-Merc

Hi
I dont agre with this, the carbon build up is a problem on DI engines because there is no gasoline going past the valve to keep it washed clean by the air and fuel vapor.
The deposit is baked on by product of combustion which has been recycled in to the intake system from the EGR valve system and a small amount of oil fumes from the crankcase.

superangrypenguin

While I agree with this, the argument that is being made is that there is gasoline that has not fully gone through combustion.

So not enough that it washes the intake valves, but so little of it at a time gets caked on to the intake valves thus causing us grief.

I'm not saying I agree, but that is the argument made; and without hard evidence who am I to say otherwise

mleskovar

Yes I noticed where you blanked off the EGR path. How many miles have been put on motors since you've done this? Where does the crankcase pressure vent? Any follow up investigation? No doubt that rail injection cleans the valves.

That's the usual take on the problem but analysis shows otherwise. One of the things they noticed in the testing.... if I remember correctly .... is the variance in gasoline composition from area to area also affected the amount and composition of carbon buildup.