Screen goes black when in reverse with back up cam
06-29-2012, 11:10 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Screen goes black when in reverse with back up cam
This just started happening. I have the Kenwood CMOS200. Sometimes the screen goes black when I put the car in reverse, and sometimes it's totally fine, I can see behind me.
Anyone might know what's up?
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
Anyone might know what's up?
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
06-30-2012, 11:48 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My observations today. It's looks black because it's actually not supporting low light situation. It's really on and off. It comes on sometimes and not others. Loose connection or bad wire?
07-01-2012, 09:00 AM
#5
Super Member
in my 6 my camera did the same thing...found out that "Water-Proof" was not really waterproof... I bought it on eBay from China so the next one I bought I sealed around the edges with apoxy.
No more problem.
Good luck
No more problem.
Good luck
07-01-2012, 03:57 PM
#6
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2012 C300 4Matic
It's been touched on in a few threads.
Most (if not all?) reverse cameras are designed to be connected to an ignition switched power source. Then there is the 'sensor wire' as I'll call it, that is meant to be connected to a reverse light so that it can detect when to turn the camera on and off. Personally I do not use the sense wire, I just wire it to the same switched source so that the camera is on whenever the car is on. This also solves occasional issues people have where the camera delays powering on after switching into reverse. Yes, this could shorten the cameras life but they last so long that it truly makes no difference, plus the power draw from the camera is negligible.
Those who run the camera power straight off of the reverse light power can potentially have a number of issues (depends on camera too). For one thing, you're confusing the SAM unit because it's only expecting a specific power draw from the bulb - too much and it might cut power to the bulb. Another reason is that this power source often isn't as clean (artifacts on the camera or too much noise in the signal causing the COMAND unit not to detect it). Also, the COMAND unit often ends up searching for the camera signal a few milliseconds before the reverse light turns on, and thus the camera is off. This confuses the COMAND unit into thinking there is no camera connected. Lastly, it's just bad practice to go cutting into the wiring harness for the reverse light like that. Much cleaner and more reliable to pop an add-a-fuse into an empty ignition-switched fuse slot.
Most (if not all?) reverse cameras are designed to be connected to an ignition switched power source. Then there is the 'sensor wire' as I'll call it, that is meant to be connected to a reverse light so that it can detect when to turn the camera on and off. Personally I do not use the sense wire, I just wire it to the same switched source so that the camera is on whenever the car is on. This also solves occasional issues people have where the camera delays powering on after switching into reverse. Yes, this could shorten the cameras life but they last so long that it truly makes no difference, plus the power draw from the camera is negligible.
Those who run the camera power straight off of the reverse light power can potentially have a number of issues (depends on camera too). For one thing, you're confusing the SAM unit because it's only expecting a specific power draw from the bulb - too much and it might cut power to the bulb. Another reason is that this power source often isn't as clean (artifacts on the camera or too much noise in the signal causing the COMAND unit not to detect it). Also, the COMAND unit often ends up searching for the camera signal a few milliseconds before the reverse light turns on, and thus the camera is off. This confuses the COMAND unit into thinking there is no camera connected. Lastly, it's just bad practice to go cutting into the wiring harness for the reverse light like that. Much cleaner and more reliable to pop an add-a-fuse into an empty ignition-switched fuse slot.
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07-01-2012, 11:27 PM
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It's been touched on in a few threads.
Most (if not all?) reverse cameras are designed to be connected to an ignition switched power source. Then there is the 'sensor wire' as I'll call it, that is meant to be connected to a reverse light so that it can detect when to turn the camera on and off. Personally I do not use the sense wire, I just wire it to the same switched source so that the camera is on whenever the car is on. This also solves occasional issues people have where the camera delays powering on after switching into reverse. Yes, this could shorten the cameras life but they last so long that it truly makes no difference, plus the power draw from the camera is negligible.
Those who run the camera power straight off of the reverse light power can potentially have a number of issues (depends on camera too). For one thing, you're confusing the SAM unit because it's only expecting a specific power draw from the bulb - too much and it might cut power to the bulb. Another reason is that this power source often isn't as clean (artifacts on the camera or too much noise in the signal causing the COMAND unit not to detect it). Also, the COMAND unit often ends up searching for the camera signal a few milliseconds before the reverse light turns on, and thus the camera is off. This confuses the COMAND unit into thinking there is no camera connected. Lastly, it's just bad practice to go cutting into the wiring harness for the reverse light like that. Much cleaner and more reliable to pop an add-a-fuse into an empty ignition-switched fuse slot.
Most (if not all?) reverse cameras are designed to be connected to an ignition switched power source. Then there is the 'sensor wire' as I'll call it, that is meant to be connected to a reverse light so that it can detect when to turn the camera on and off. Personally I do not use the sense wire, I just wire it to the same switched source so that the camera is on whenever the car is on. This also solves occasional issues people have where the camera delays powering on after switching into reverse. Yes, this could shorten the cameras life but they last so long that it truly makes no difference, plus the power draw from the camera is negligible.
Those who run the camera power straight off of the reverse light power can potentially have a number of issues (depends on camera too). For one thing, you're confusing the SAM unit because it's only expecting a specific power draw from the bulb - too much and it might cut power to the bulb. Another reason is that this power source often isn't as clean (artifacts on the camera or too much noise in the signal causing the COMAND unit not to detect it). Also, the COMAND unit often ends up searching for the camera signal a few milliseconds before the reverse light turns on, and thus the camera is off. This confuses the COMAND unit into thinking there is no camera connected. Lastly, it's just bad practice to go cutting into the wiring harness for the reverse light like that. Much cleaner and more reliable to pop an add-a-fuse into an empty ignition-switched fuse slot.
My VIM and camera have been in service since late 2007 with no failures.
07-02-2012, 05:49 PM
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Most of that is wrong. The lamp out module is looking for an open (burned out bulb) not additional current to which it does not respond. Further, the manufacturer of the VIM which includes the camera, camera module and a wiring connector to the wire serving the reverse light bulb (their instructions) which is 12V. The slight (very slight) delay is the rear SAM responding to the signal from the shifter before it sends 12V to the reverse lights which always illuminate slightly after reverse gear is selected.
My VIM and camera have been in service since late 2007 with no failures.
My VIM and camera have been in service since late 2007 with no failures.
The wire that they provide that connects to the reverse light is the sense wire as I had said. I was specifying that people not connect to POWER from the reverse light. The voltage has nothing to do with it. It's pretty obvious that the delay is the SAM!!! It's taking a moment to process the reverse signal coming over on the CAN bus This is what often causes a problem with the COMAND unit detecting the camera - the delay resulting from this power source, a power source only meant for a bulb. There are many issues that crop up with this INCORRECT method of wiring the camera. It depends on who makes the camera.
No camera (except maybe some really bad ebay junk) will specify that you draw power from the reverse light, only the sense wire, and even doing that is a poor idea (although not as bad and not what I was referring to). Most cameras will specifically tell you NOT to pull power from the reverse light. You really haven no clue what you're saying with regard to this, sorry. Everyone else reading or having problems with cameras, search the forum, this problem has occurred before. Obviously it doesn't necessarily mean your problem is due to this. Finally, what does the fact that your VIM and camera have been working for years have to do with this? VIM is a separate device unrelated to a reverse camera. I was never referring to any specific camera, just automotive reverse cameras in general. 99% of them work the same way. Incorrectly wiring the camera doesn't always result in problems. Hell, it probably works most of the time. It's still wrong.
Even if you want to delude yourself and insist that my argument is completely wrong (which it isn't), why the heck would you splice into a wiring harness when you can do a nice professional and clean install using an add-a-fuse? Your method is dirty, mine is clean.
This is the best advice. Always make sure you have good grounds too. Best thing to do is use one of the grounding bolts in the trunk near the SAM. You'll note a bunch of brown wires under it.
Last edited by acr2001; 07-02-2012 at 06:04 PM.
07-02-2012, 09:33 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Sorry, but you're wrong - you don't know what you're talking about. The "lamp out module" (an interesting made up term) does not work like that at all. It is much more complicated in how it detects issues with a bulb. Answer this - what happens if you were to draw too much amperage from a bulb connector in a modern MB? Is there a fuse that blows? I'd like to know what you think happens. Why do you think LEDs are such a problem (if they don't have proper load resistors)? They draw power, just less than a bulb. If the system were as dumb as you make it out to be, LEDs would work fine.
The wire that they provide that connects to the reverse light is the sense wire as I had said. I was specifying that people not connect to POWER from the reverse light. The voltage has nothing to do with it. It's pretty obvious that the delay is the SAM!!! It's taking a moment to process the reverse signal coming over on the CAN bus This is what often causes a problem with the COMAND unit detecting the camera - the delay resulting from this power source, a power source only meant for a bulb. There are many issues that crop up with this INCORRECT method of wiring the camera. It depends on who makes the camera.
No camera (except maybe some really bad ebay junk) will specify that you draw power from the reverse light, only the sense wire, and even doing that is a poor idea (although not as bad and not what I was referring to). Most cameras will specifically tell you NOT to pull power from the reverse light. You really haven no clue what you're saying with regard to this, sorry. Everyone else reading or having problems with cameras, search the forum, this problem has occurred before. Obviously it doesn't necessarily mean your problem is due to this. Finally, what does the fact that your VIM and camera have been working for years have to do with this? VIM is a separate device unrelated to a reverse camera. I was never referring to any specific camera, just automotive reverse cameras in general. 99% of them work the same way. Incorrectly wiring the camera doesn't always result in problems. Hell, it probably works most of the time. It's still wrong.
Even if you want to delude yourself and insist that my argument is completely wrong (which it isn't), why the heck would you splice into a wiring harness when you can do a nice professional and clean install using an add-a-fuse? Your method is dirty, mine is clean.
This is the best advice. Always make sure you have good grounds too. Best thing to do is use one of the grounding bolts in the trunk near the SAM. You'll note a bunch of brown wires under it.
The wire that they provide that connects to the reverse light is the sense wire as I had said. I was specifying that people not connect to POWER from the reverse light. The voltage has nothing to do with it. It's pretty obvious that the delay is the SAM!!! It's taking a moment to process the reverse signal coming over on the CAN bus This is what often causes a problem with the COMAND unit detecting the camera - the delay resulting from this power source, a power source only meant for a bulb. There are many issues that crop up with this INCORRECT method of wiring the camera. It depends on who makes the camera.
No camera (except maybe some really bad ebay junk) will specify that you draw power from the reverse light, only the sense wire, and even doing that is a poor idea (although not as bad and not what I was referring to). Most cameras will specifically tell you NOT to pull power from the reverse light. You really haven no clue what you're saying with regard to this, sorry. Everyone else reading or having problems with cameras, search the forum, this problem has occurred before. Obviously it doesn't necessarily mean your problem is due to this. Finally, what does the fact that your VIM and camera have been working for years have to do with this? VIM is a separate device unrelated to a reverse camera. I was never referring to any specific camera, just automotive reverse cameras in general. 99% of them work the same way. Incorrectly wiring the camera doesn't always result in problems. Hell, it probably works most of the time. It's still wrong.
Even if you want to delude yourself and insist that my argument is completely wrong (which it isn't), why the heck would you splice into a wiring harness when you can do a nice professional and clean install using an add-a-fuse? Your method is dirty, mine is clean.
This is the best advice. Always make sure you have good grounds too. Best thing to do is use one of the grounding bolts in the trunk near the SAM. You'll note a bunch of brown wires under it.
07-03-2012, 11:15 AM
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Do you notice that it happens after opening/closing the trunk?
I have the factory cam on my 2012. About a month after I picked it up, I noticed that if I opened/closed the trunk I would get a black screen; but after driving to my destination it would work when it came time to back up.
It did this for a month or so sporadically, but has been behaving for the last month or so. I had it in last week to get a couple of minor things tweaked and had them check it, but like I figured they did not find anything wrong.
I have the factory cam on my 2012. About a month after I picked it up, I noticed that if I opened/closed the trunk I would get a black screen; but after driving to my destination it would work when it came time to back up.
It did this for a month or so sporadically, but has been behaving for the last month or so. I had it in last week to get a couple of minor things tweaked and had them check it, but like I figured they did not find anything wrong.
07-04-2012, 12:02 AM
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Thread Starter
I've noticed now that the screen is not actually black, the cam is on but I can barely see what's on the screen since it's really dark. This happens either day or night.
07-04-2012, 12:19 AM
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Sorry, but you're wrong - you don't know what you're talking about. The "lamp out module" (an interesting made up term) does not work like that at all. It is much more complicated in how it detects issues with a bulb. Answer this - what happens if you were to draw too much amperage from a bulb connector in a modern MB? Is there a fuse that blows? I'd like to know what you think happens. Why do you think LEDs are such a problem (if they don't have proper load resistors)? They draw power, just less than a bulb. If the system were as dumb as you make it out to be, LEDs would work fine.
I can see that you are new to MB ownership.
Lamp out modules (hardly a made up term) have been used In MBs since at least the 1994 model W202. They monitor most but not all exterior lights but since the lamp substitution feature was added for the W204 things have changed a little. Adding lamps to a circuit does NOT illuminate the lamp out light but then you have never done this so you wouldn't know what happens. This has nothing to do with fuse sizes, BTW which is a separate issue.
What DOES illuminate the bulb out light, once again, is reduced current flow below a predetermined threshold, either by an open (failed bulb) or installing headlight relays for standard headlights (relay amperage is far below two light bulbs) or substituting LEDs without a compensating load.
I will give you two examples to prove my words. In every MB I've owned prior to the C300 I have converted the rear fog light positions to additional brake lights, thereby doubling the amperage but never illuminating the bulb out light. That's one. I have also added headlight relays so that I could install the highest wattage available headlight bulbs. Since the amperage required by the relay coils was far below the bulbs (160w high beams), the car with a lamp out indicator came on. That's two.
...BIG SNIP...
Finally, what does the fact that your VIM and camera have been working for years have to do with this? VIM is a separate device unrelated to a reverse camera. I was never referring to any specific camera, just automotive reverse cameras in general. 99% of them work the same way.
Even if you want to delude yourself and insist that my argument is completely wrong (which it isn't), why the heck would you splice into a wiring harness when you can do a nice professional and clean install using an add-a-fuse? Your method is dirty, mine is clean.
Back before you showed up here, a Michigan company advertised their VIM with backup camera here, likely in 2007, and their instructions included connecting a lead to the reverse light with a pinch-on wire connecter, whatever they are called which is not "splicing into" a harness which means connecting something in series with the lead. That was never posted.
Always make sure you have good grounds too. Best thing to do is use one of the grounding bolts in the trunk near the SAM. You'll note a bunch of brown wires under it.
I agree completely.
BTW, I have had decades of German automotive wiring experience including creating wiring harnesses out of thin air using original wiring diagrams while doing restoration work. So please don't think I am some kid who does not know an amp from a volt.
I can see that you are new to MB ownership.
Lamp out modules (hardly a made up term) have been used In MBs since at least the 1994 model W202. They monitor most but not all exterior lights but since the lamp substitution feature was added for the W204 things have changed a little. Adding lamps to a circuit does NOT illuminate the lamp out light but then you have never done this so you wouldn't know what happens. This has nothing to do with fuse sizes, BTW which is a separate issue.
What DOES illuminate the bulb out light, once again, is reduced current flow below a predetermined threshold, either by an open (failed bulb) or installing headlight relays for standard headlights (relay amperage is far below two light bulbs) or substituting LEDs without a compensating load.
I will give you two examples to prove my words. In every MB I've owned prior to the C300 I have converted the rear fog light positions to additional brake lights, thereby doubling the amperage but never illuminating the bulb out light. That's one. I have also added headlight relays so that I could install the highest wattage available headlight bulbs. Since the amperage required by the relay coils was far below the bulbs (160w high beams), the car with a lamp out indicator came on. That's two.
...BIG SNIP...
Finally, what does the fact that your VIM and camera have been working for years have to do with this? VIM is a separate device unrelated to a reverse camera. I was never referring to any specific camera, just automotive reverse cameras in general. 99% of them work the same way.
Even if you want to delude yourself and insist that my argument is completely wrong (which it isn't), why the heck would you splice into a wiring harness when you can do a nice professional and clean install using an add-a-fuse? Your method is dirty, mine is clean.
Back before you showed up here, a Michigan company advertised their VIM with backup camera here, likely in 2007, and their instructions included connecting a lead to the reverse light with a pinch-on wire connecter, whatever they are called which is not "splicing into" a harness which means connecting something in series with the lead. That was never posted.
Always make sure you have good grounds too. Best thing to do is use one of the grounding bolts in the trunk near the SAM. You'll note a bunch of brown wires under it.
I agree completely.
BTW, I have had decades of German automotive wiring experience including creating wiring harnesses out of thin air using original wiring diagrams while doing restoration work. So please don't think I am some kid who does not know an amp from a volt.
07-04-2012, 01:40 AM
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I understand that you have experience, and I appreciate and respect that.
I have been here since well before 2007 and this is my third Mercedes. You really do seem to make a lot of assumptions, so far 0 for 4.
I think this "bulb module" discussion is probably off topic as far as arguing against connecting the reverse camera to the reverse light. Unless I'm confused the bulbs monitored by the SAM (theres no specific module) don't even have accessible fuses. This is because the computer cuts power if it detects too many amps being pulled. As a matter of fact, whenever the system detects a problem with a bulb it actually cuts power to it. It doesn't simply pop up a warning. It's an active system, not passive.
Anyway, ignoring the whole 'bulb module' thing: the point, quite simply, is that you do not want to power your reverse camera off of the reverse light - I promise. Your kit probably does not take power from that line, it probably only uses it as a sense line (like a relay). Drawing power from the reverse light CAN result in issues as outlined. I too have a pretty strong electrical engineering background. I've installed more than one reverse camera, COMAND unit, MHI unit, etc. Naturally if we were talking about some 1995 Chevy or such, connecting a reverse camera to a reverse light bulb source would most likely be just fine.
I have been here since well before 2007 and this is my third Mercedes. You really do seem to make a lot of assumptions, so far 0 for 4.
I think this "bulb module" discussion is probably off topic as far as arguing against connecting the reverse camera to the reverse light. Unless I'm confused the bulbs monitored by the SAM (theres no specific module) don't even have accessible fuses. This is because the computer cuts power if it detects too many amps being pulled. As a matter of fact, whenever the system detects a problem with a bulb it actually cuts power to it. It doesn't simply pop up a warning. It's an active system, not passive.
Anyway, ignoring the whole 'bulb module' thing: the point, quite simply, is that you do not want to power your reverse camera off of the reverse light - I promise. Your kit probably does not take power from that line, it probably only uses it as a sense line (like a relay). Drawing power from the reverse light CAN result in issues as outlined. I too have a pretty strong electrical engineering background. I've installed more than one reverse camera, COMAND unit, MHI unit, etc. Naturally if we were talking about some 1995 Chevy or such, connecting a reverse camera to a reverse light bulb source would most likely be just fine.
Last edited by acr2001; 07-04-2012 at 12:59 PM.
08-31-2014, 02:33 PM
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ACR is correct. I have a 2011 e350 and have a camera powered via the "add a fuse" method and it worked with no problems. the only thing was that at night the camera image was very grainy, so i decided to buy another camera but this one had 4 led's for lighting the area.
To avoid these LED's being on all the time I connected the camera so the power was coming from the reverse light instead. While the car was stationary and placed in reverse the image was nice and clear but as soon as I started to back up in reverse, the image was all distorted.
in the end I reversed back to the original camera using the permanent power.
To avoid these LED's being on all the time I connected the camera so the power was coming from the reverse light instead. While the car was stationary and placed in reverse the image was nice and clear but as soon as I started to back up in reverse, the image was all distorted.
in the end I reversed back to the original camera using the permanent power.
12-03-2014, 09:52 PM
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Help
My gl 2007 had a flat battery after charge, the backup camera ( reverse camera) doesn't come on command anymore. IDEAS please I ve changed fuses , relays but I can't find the module and I can't get any one to help
