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-   -   Kleeman ECU tune, 3.5L C300 (https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/511244-kleeman-ecu-tune-3-5l-c300.html)

Shradok 07-28-2017 06:20 PM

Double post

Shradok 07-28-2017 06:26 PM


Originally Posted by jlp187 (Post 7223777)
I'll pitch in a few bucks to like a "gofundme" if we get this last person that claims to have a successful tune done to go get a dyno run done.

I could schedule a local dyno run, but me being in Denver, not sure how useful it will be to the community without a baseline. N/A engines supposedly lose about 3% power per 1000 feet. It would put me st 16.5% power loss at least if formula is any accurate. What I'm trying to say, not sure if my Denver numbers will be useful without baseline. Will still leave a lot of room for wondering.

FFM 07-30-2017 05:35 PM

Would have to be a before and after dyno. Delta is what matters. Especially since we can assume a pretty substantial drivetrain loss from the 4matic compared to RWD of the 350.

1BigDaddy1 08-22-2017 08:02 AM

W204 M276
 
Reading through all these posts re: ECU tune on M276, I just purchased a 2014 C300 4matic with 4,800 miles.

It truly was a little old lady car, which causes me to wonder about one person's post regarding a reflash of the TCU (transmission control). If the TCU does not continually learn and re-learn, (or does it?), would it need to be reflashed to stock?

But regarding the ECU tune, I commiserate with those complaining of the throttle lag, I hate it. For just that reason alone I want the Kleeman ECU tune. I did call Eurocharged, but the guy on the phone seemed a little behind in knowledge related to the tune. I think Renntech is another player that offers something. But again, regardless of who does it, would I need the TCU reflashed to stock? Is that really a thing?

And to counter the tin foil hat conspiracy theorists, even though I'm a new user, I'm not a Kleeman shill. So when I come back after the tune and state my perceived level of happiness, you will know it's legit. And I think a more plausible explanation for lack of hard data is that MB would not be all too happy to have proof in hand that they dumbed down their engine to maximize profits at different price points. As some users pointed out, why would someone buy a 350 if they could just buy a 300 and tune it? MB might come down hard on someone who was bent on exposing that. Just a theory, but a better one than fake users.

One more thing, the car has more body roll than my previous Civic, which I had stiffened with an aftermarket rear sway bar. Does the C300 4matic benefit from any upgrades in sway bars?

gg22 08-22-2017 11:24 AM


Originally Posted by 1BigDaddy1 (Post 7245126)
Reading through all these posts re: ECU tune on M276, I just purchased a 2014 C300 4matic with 4,800 miles.

It truly was a little old lady car, which causes me to wonder about one person's post regarding a reflash of the TCU (transmission control). If the TCU does not continually learn and re-learn, (or does it?), would it need to be reflashed to stock?

But regarding the ECU tune, I commiserate with those complaining of the throttle lag, I hate it. For just that reason alone I want the Kleeman ECU tune. I did call Eurocharged, but the guy on the phone seemed a little behind in knowledge related to the tune. I think Renntech is another player that offers something. But again, regardless of who does it, would I need the TCU reflashed to stock? Is that really a thing?

And to counter the tin foil hat conspiracy theorists, even though I'm a new user, I'm not a Kleeman shill. So when I come back after the tune and state my perceived level of happiness, you will know it's legit. And I think a more plausible explanation for lack of hard data is that MB would not be all too happy to have proof in hand that they dumbed down their engine to maximize profits at different price points. As some users pointed out, why would someone buy a 350 if they could just buy a 300 and tune it? MB might come down hard on someone who was bent on exposing that. Just a theory, but a better one than fake users.

One more thing, the car has more body roll than my previous Civic, which I had stiffened with an aftermarket rear sway bar. Does the C300 4matic benefit from any upgrades in sway bars?

Yeah, I so hate this acceleration lag, I'm thinking of selling this car. My old 4 cylinder Honda Accord drove better.
Regarding TCU reset - it's easy to do. You will notice some improvements while it relearns, but then the lag will be back.

1. Turn the ignition key to the "on" position which is just before you crank the engine to start.
2. Press the accelerator to the floor and hold for 5 seconds.
3. Then turn the key to the off position but do not remove the key, then release the accelerator.
4. Wait at least two minutes for TCU to reset. (key in).

edgalang 08-22-2017 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by 1BigDaddy1 (Post 7245126)
...
As some users pointed out, why would someone buy a 350 if they could just buy a 300 and tune it?
...

Because 300s come in AWD while 350s come in RWD.

1BigDaddy1 08-22-2017 12:49 PM

Thank you for that. I reset the TCU and what a difference! I mentioned before that this 3 year old car had only 4,800 miles on it and apparently the TCU learned her old-lady ways. It seemed the car was shifting early in Sport mode but I thought that was just the car. Nope. Resetting the TCU raised the shift points much higher and appropriately. The car is even better now. Thank you again for that procedure. I would have thought the dealer would've known that, but......

Alfadude 08-22-2017 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by edgalang (Post 7245314)
Because 300s come in AWD while 350s come in RWD.

Starting in 2012 you could get the C350 in a 4Matic as well.

edgalang 08-22-2017 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Alfadude (Post 7245346)
Starting in 2012 you could get the C350 in a 4Matic as well.

...only applies to coupes.

plawer 10-28-2017 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by plawer (Post 6939155)
I started reading this thread some months ago to get more info on the tuning. I thought I'd share my experience.

Getting the ECU out is easy once you know how. When the two cables have been removed from the top, the easiest way to get it out is to reach below the ECU and force it up.

Kleemann was the choice. The tuning was done in about 75 minutes. Depending on the actual model of the ECU, they drill a hole in it to reach the circuit board. They put a small rubber plug into the hole afterwards. They also have a more permanent plug, but the rubber plug makes it easier for Kleemann to retune if the software is updated by Mercedes during regular service. The reflash fee is 100 euro, or about 120 dollars if it is needed. Mine was done in their main office in Denmark since I was there for other reasons.

I have driven some longer trips both before and after having the tuning done so I had some data to see if the mpg suffered. All of it done in E mode and not much change in elevation in general.

Before tuning:
300 miles trip Chicago-Cincinnati, where most of the trip was done at 80 mph with cruise control: 31.5 mpg
300 miles (return) trip, where most of the trip was done at 65 mph with cruise control: 34.0 mpg

After tuning:
450 miles trip Pittsburgh-Chicago, where most of the trip was done at 80 mph with cruise control: 28.0 mpg

It is definitely using more gas in general. During 12 miles of rush hour stop-and-go traffic, I can barely make it hit 20 mpg, where it was not that difficult before the tuning. Secondly, the ECO mode seems to be less available after the upgrade than before. All in all, it seems to be more in the 16-28 mpg range now, where it was 20-31 mpg before the tune.

The RPM goes higher to 7000 now, and it does have more power. Does it have the fabled 315 bhp? I don't know. But I do know that the throttle response combined with the added power made it worth the upgrade for me. The car is definitely more fun to drive now.

Here's my update a year later.

After I had my car serviced in spring, it seems to be back to it's boring self. The throttle response is missing, and the car is not as snappy as it was. I brought my ECU to Kleemann again. He says the tuning file is still on the ECU, and the way they install the file prevents them from reading or modifying the file. This is done so you can't just copy the file from one ECU to another, and you cannot see what parameters are changed.

I have tried to do some unscientific 0-60mph tests, and it doesn't seem to have the tuned power.

I have done the TCU reset, and in the long run it didn't bring back anything.

My suspicion is in the wake of the VW chip scandal, MB flashed the ECU routinely during service to ensure they don't get a similar scandal. And that affects how the tuning file operates, thus not affecting the intended parameters.

It was fun while it lasted, but I probably wouldn't do it again.

theoilzone 03-18-2018 11:58 AM

NOT KLEMMANN OR RENNTECH TUNED
 

Originally Posted by JaredP (Post 6526644)
Genesis drove 13 times longer than you and averaged 4 mph faster. Anyone could get 35mpg on a mountain road or with good wind by resetting the trip at an advantageous time. If you increased your sample, an drove for another 5 hours, you would likely encounter some not so favourable conditions that would lower your mpg.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d55cbb6f3f.jpg
Ok, here is 8 more miles per hour and 5 more hours. :) +4.7 More MPGs, nearly 16% better MPGs.

There is NO TUNE for a M276 Engine (3.5 Litre) in 2012-2014 C300 & C350s from RENNTECH. It does not currently exist. It is a misprint on their site when they moved and webmaster made an editing error. The web image is for the M156 & M272 & M273 engines. I made a trip to their offices and they could not produce a tune. The staff stated they would check when the tuning engineer returned from lunch.

I waited there with witnesses, and this tuning engineer is still on his lunch. The "tune" Renntech offers is for an engine, the Mercedes M272 V6, the engine with the Class Action Lawsuit against it with the $4,000 Repair for the infamous Balance Shaft Design Issue, that makes 268 HP. Mercedes was eventually ordered, in Court Proceedings, to pay out 70% of this costs for the repair even when out of warranty for those poor consumers who had a known design issue essentially hidden from them.
No factory delivered M276 equipped C300 or C350 comes with 268 HP during the 2012 to 2014 W204 Model Years. 248 HP yes, 302 HP supposedly, with a few models with separate firmware that delivers 306 HP.
RENNTECH has NO M276.xxx Engine Tuning DATA.RENNTECH is a great and highly reputable company, but they have no data to share from their DYNO runs with ANY M276 Engine, only the M272.
JUST LIKE KLEEMANN. ZERO M276.xxx Tuning DATA.


Take a moment to think about that from a marketing perspective (marketing being a logical repeatable process - versus sales...... i.e. pseudo randomly occurring cash exchanges. "Here is your data sir, that you requested yes we have the dyno runs for going from 248 HP to 330 HP (+ 82 HP). Thank you for your interest in our tuning products! But no. There is no data, sorry...and.....you will just feel a difference. In a court room this is known as Hearsay Evidence. A Competent Judge would throw you out. No measurement, stop wasting his time. Those of you in that have visited Judges in traffic courts understand you were up against trained and certified operators of scientifically calibrated instruments. You entered the court room with your opinion. We know who the judge leans on there, those with measurement. What a travesty this is with KLEEMANN & RENNTECH. Monkeyland of Zero Measurement Data to share.

NO Measurements to offer, other than a telephone conversation to tell you that you will feel a difference. The only difference you can visibly measure is your online checking or VISA account being reduced/increased when being charged $995 or $1300 for a "tune". An absolute joke. When at RENNTECH, the lead AMG Engineering Director was on-site helping Harmut Fehyl prep a SEMA bound AMG GT-S for the show. He could produce no data for the M276.
The "M276 Tune RENNTECH offers is actually a tune designed & intended for the M272 Variant in the E350 Class with the 3.5 Litre E35 Engine fitted during the 2005-2011 timeframe/production timeline. Output is 272 PS (268 hp/200 kW) at 6000 rpm with 258 ftlbf (350 Nm) of torque at 3500 rpm. A direct injected variant debuted in 2006 under the name Stratified-Charged Gasoline Injection (CGI). The reason the tune delivers only 22 HP extra is because of the M272's infamous balance shafts that causes excessive parasitic loads/drags within the engine and its 90 degree design. The M276 engine is a 60 degree design WITHOUT the BALANCE SHAFT hindering mechanical efficiency, so it stands to reason that higher gains are possible but not much more. The C350 gains are reported to be 28 more HP, that is 302 to 330 HP according to KLEEMANN, AGAIN, WITH ZERO DATA.

But the reader can call there and they will take your money/currency. Rest assured this will happen. But they have no data for the M276.xxx C300 or C350 engines offered during the mid 2012 to 2014 timeframe in the W204 Chassis, sold through MBUSA, to their dealers, and eventually to consumers, in the USA. If they do, it must be something super special, as usually, in today's world of the IoT (Internet of Things) ANY DATA WORTH HAVING IS SHARED.

Meanwhile, I developed an ironclad, reproducible method to increase mileage, without waiting to hit the reset button going down a hill somewhere. (Humor)

Now this is hard evidence, something KLEEMANN & RENNTECH has not and is not currently willing to produce.
Send me $995 or $1300 and I will send specific instructions anyone can do to achieve these MPG numbers, something commuters should love. Stage 1 Performance costs $995 and is shown in the above picture. Stage 2 costs $1300 and mileage above 38 MPGs on the Highway are achievable.
You will get every penny spent in ROI through measurable fuel savings. The automobile mods take about 2 hours and 40 minutes total for a Master Certified Technician on the W204 Chassis to complete.

Hard evidence KLEEMANN or RENNTECH have not been currently willing to and can not produce to date.
Who knows, maybe they will someday.

Hamza Jay 03-19-2018 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by theoilzone (Post 7407284)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d55cbb6f3f.jpg
There is NO TUNE for a M276 Engine (3.5 Litre) in 2012-2014 C300 & C350s from RENNTECH. It does not exist. It is a misprint on their site when they moved and webmaster made an editing error. The web image is for the M156 & M272 & M273 engines. I made a trip to their offices and they could not produce a tune. The staff stated they would check when the tuning engineer returned from lunch.

I waited there with witnesses, and this tuning engineer is still on his lunch. The "tune" Renntech offers is for an engine that makes 268 HP. No factory delivered M276 equipped C300 or C350 comes with 268 HP during the 2012 to 2014 W204 Model Years. 248 HP yes, 306 HP supposedly. RENNTECH has NO DATA. JUST LIKE KLEEMANN. ZERO DATA.

NO Measurements to offer other than you will feel a difference. The only difference you can visibly measure is your online checking or VISA account being reduced/increased when being charged $995 or $1300 for a "tune". An absolute joke. When at RENNTECH, the lead AMG Engineering Director was on-site helping Harmut Fehyl prep a SEMA bound AMG GT-S for the show. He could produce no data for the M276.
The M276 tune they offer is actually a tune designed and intended for the 3.5 Lire E35 Engine fitted in the E350 Class during the 2005-2011 timeframe/production timeline. Output is 272 PS (268 hp/200 kW) at 6000 rpm with 258 ftlbf (350 Nm) of torque at 3500 rpm. A direct injected variant debuted in 2006 under the name Stratified-Charged Gasoline Injection (CGI).

But the reader can call there and they will take your money/currency. Rest assured this will happen. But they have no data for the M276 C300 or C350 engines offered during the mid 2012 to 29014 timeframe in the W204 Chassis, sold through MBUSA to consumers in the USA.

Meanwhile, I developed an ironclad reproducible method to increase mileage, without waiting to hit the reset button going down a hill somewhere. (Humor)

Now this is hard evidence, something KLEEMANN & RENNTECH has not and is not currently willing to produce.
Send me $995 or $1300 and I will send specific instructions anyone can do to achieve these MPG numbers, something commuters should love. Stage 1 Performance costs $995 and is shown in the above picture. Stage 2 costs $1300 and mileage above 38 MPGs on the Highway are achievable.
You will get every penny spent in ROI through measurable fuel savings. The automobile mods take about 2 hours and 40 minutes total for a Master Certified Technician on the W204 Chassis to complete.
Hard evidence KLEEMANN or RENNTECH have not been willing,to and can not produce to date.

Any sufficient updates on the kleeman tune? I live in the calgary Alberta area and if anyone has a kleeman tune done, Im down to meet up and do a couple runs on my 14 C300

StevilKnievel 03-18-2019 06:21 PM

I know this thread is about the Kleeman m276 tune but I did get some solid info from another company that does the same tune. I spoke to Neil at Bren Tech about this tune bc they actually had video of dyno tuning results along with baseline results. There are obviously % fluctuations based on dyno used, calibration, environmental factors and the vehicles operation i.e. AT vs MT rwd vs awd and mods. These high numbers being claimed by Kleeman 300~330hp are probably pretty accurate because these are the flywheel (bhp) numbers not accounting for the obligatory losses once transmitted to rolling resistance (whp)


Here is the video listing the baseline #'s in the description and the tuned dyno results in the heading. Neil confirmed these numbers as actual whp and told me the 300+ claims are definitely bhp (their own company claims those #'s too). Which makes sense as the number to advertise because it is still legitimate but harder to verify. On paper the gains seem very low but the "feel" is much more pronounced due to the changes made in the spark timing and duration, fuel mapping and throttle restrictions. I equate it to the feeling of......V-TEC YO!! Lol, sorry, couldn't resist. The car is still making the same horsepower but the feel is very different. Toyota has done an excellent job of this lately with their fuel mapping and vvti systems. I know I'm getting off topic but I felt the need to explain why so many people are let down when they "feel" the power and then actually "see" the power. So getting back to the topic at hand, it seems these companies dont want to post numbers because such small gains on paper, or monitors, hardly merits such a high cost. But as many have posted here after the tune the feel is there and few have complained it was too much to pay. I'm just glad Neil at Bren Tech was as forthcoming as he was. They offer the same tune package for just under a G. OE tuning has had similar results from what I've gathered in my search but I wasn't able to quantify and verify those claims. As others in the thread have stated a better way to determine USEFUL hp is trap times, 1/4's and 0-60/0-100 times. As they give real-world telemetry as opposed to simulated telemetry.

Laxpower87 03-18-2019 10:40 PM

Im in New york city and have the kleeman tune on my 2014 c300 if anybody wants to race that doesnt have a tune

MoMoney-MoMods 05-05-2019 12:56 PM

Has anyone checked out this dyno video and chart from YouTube
they don't say what year/ engine but its a 4matic and looks like facelift model. Plus pretune hp is 207 so sounds like it could be the 276 detuned engine. They were able to gain 42hp, and actually showed results. Not as much as the other ECU tuners are claiming though.

I have a 2013 c300 4matic that still stock in the Chicago area. If anyone has the tune near by, lets race to see how much better we get with tune. I'm still on the fence for spending $1200


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