Waterless coolants?
I have bought a C250 CDI 2012.Since i live in Cyprus the weather here is very hot. As i know the turbo works better in a cold environment i am searching what can i do to help my Car to cool down more so i can have a more "power". I am thinking to put a intercooler to help the car better. while i was searching i found this. Does anyone used this product or know anything about it?
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/news/...oduct-award/86 |
Originally Posted by Alex_K
(Post 5950337)
I have bought a C250 CDI 2012.Since i live in Cyprus the weather here is very hot. As i know the turbo works better in a cold environment i am searching what can i do to help my Car to cool down more so i can have a more "power". I am thinking to put a intercooler to help the car better. while i was searching i found this. Does anyone used this product or know anything about it?
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/news/...oduct-award/86 The waterless coolant sounds interesting. . I wonder whether MB approve them ? Here is one view from :- http://www.overclock.net/t/1302628/waterless-coolant If you look at MSDS of evans coolant, it is ethylene glycol + propylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors. Nothing special at all about it. Other then the fact it will have ~1/3 heat capacity of water and 1/3 thermal conductance of water, and will have about 1/3 flow from thick viscosity of propylene glycol, and result in huge increase in core temps. Just 50% propylene glycol + water caused 8C worse core temps in skinneelabs testing. Now imagine no water at all, just all propylene gycol and eythylene glycol, so will increase core temps by significantly more than 8C. In our pumps, there is no boiling and no cavitation, so no use at all for glycols. If you want anticorrosion, just get concentrated inhibitors without the glycol. No intelligent reason to put 68% glycol, 30% propylene glycol, 2% inhibitors in one's car....let alone in a computer loop where the boiling/freezing temps are completely irrelevant. The only difference in a water loop you will see is MUCH higher core temps from combination of very poor thermal properties and much reduced flow from the thick viscosity of the glycol mix. marketing hype aside, if the stuff was so great, all car manufactures would eliminate water and run same. You can buy all the ingredients for a few bucks at any chemical plant. |
Perhaps I missed something in chemistry, but how can a liquid be waterless?
|
You missed something , eg alcohol, fuels, oils, etc.
|
I agree with what has been said.
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at. An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it! Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well |
Originally Posted by Carsy
(Post 5950438)
You missed something , eg alcohol, fuels, oils, etc.
|
Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950481)
But isn't it essentially derived from water? One of the 4 basic elements on earth?
It's just that water is so common that is seems synonymous with liquid. |
Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950481)
But isn't it essentially derived from water? One of the 4 basic elements on earth?
Just to clarify, water is not an element. Water is a molecule comprised of elements, specifically, hydrogen and oxygen atoms in a 2:1 ratio, therefore H20 is one molecule of water. There are plenty of liquids without water in them, including another element, mercury. Solids, liquids, and gases can change state among those conditions, depending on temperature. Here is a link to a periodic table of the elements. https://mbworld.org/forums/data:imag...MGBCMGDBgQv//Z |
Originally Posted by Carsy
(Post 5950412)
I am certain that your C 250 CDI already has an intercooler.
The waterless coolant sounds interesting. . I wonder whether MB approve them ? Here is one view from :- http://www.overclock.net/t/1302628/waterless-coolant If you look at MSDS of evans coolant, it is ethylene glycol + propylene glycol + corrosion inhibitors. Nothing special at all about it. Other then the fact it will have ~1/3 heat capacity of water and 1/3 thermal conductance of water, and will have about 1/3 flow from thick viscosity of propylene glycol, and result in huge increase in core temps. Just 50% propylene glycol + water caused 8C worse core temps in skinneelabs testing. Now imagine no water at all, just all propylene gycol and eythylene glycol, so will increase core temps by significantly more than 8C. In our pumps, there is no boiling and no cavitation, so no use at all for glycols. If you want anticorrosion, just get concentrated inhibitors without the glycol. No intelligent reason to put 68% glycol, 30% propylene glycol, 2% inhibitors in one's car....let alone in a computer loop where the boiling/freezing temps are completely irrelevant. The only difference in a water loop you will see is MUCH higher core temps from combination of very poor thermal properties and much reduced flow from the thick viscosity of the glycol mix. marketing hype aside, if the stuff was so great, all car manufactures would eliminate water and run same. You can buy all the ingredients for a few bucks at any chemical plant. |
Originally Posted by paulo744
(Post 5950460)
I agree with what has been said.
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at. An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it! Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well |
Guys what about Water / Methanol Injection Kits?
http://www.aemelectronics.com/water-...on-systems-52/ |
I wasn't referring to it as an element from the periodic table of elements Sportstick, I was referring to it as wind, fire, earth, and water :)
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Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950481)
But isn't it essentially derived from water? One of the 4 basic elements on earth?
|
Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950711)
I wasn't referring to it as an element from the periodic table of elements Sportstick, I was referring to it as wind, fire, earth, and water :)
|
Originally Posted by Sportstick
(Post 5950716)
Other than three of those making up one of the best bands of all time, none of them are elements according to any definition I know, so sorry if I'm a bit confused!!
|
el·e·ment
ˈeləmənt/ noun noun: element; plural noun: elements; noun: chemical element; plural noun: chemical elements 1. a part or aspect of something abstract, esp. one that is essential or characteristic. I am not referring to the elements of the periodic table, but as the definition states, water being a part or aspect of something. H20 itself is not an element, but a substance or a compound. |
Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950748)
el·e·ment
ˈeləmənt/ noun noun: element; plural noun: elements; noun: chemical element; plural noun: chemical elements 1. a part or aspect of something abstract, esp. one that is essential or characteristic. I am not referring to the elements of the periodic table, but as the definition states, water being a part or aspect of something. H20 itself is not an element, but a substance or a compound. |
No worries, still a bit cloudy for me to see something such as coolant to be made absolutely without h2o as a base.
|
Originally Posted by Carsy
(Post 5950412)
I am certain that your C 250 CDI already has an intercooler.
|
Originally Posted by paulo744
(Post 5950460)
I agree with what has been said.
And I'll add, not sure, if our thermostat's are electronically controlled, but a lower temperature opening thermostat might be beneficial, but it depends on how low our thermostats already do open at. An intercooler is definitely the most beneficial to cool down intake air; replacing the stock one with a thicker core, or large area would be beneficial. A nice water/alcohol injection would help when you do want to put the power down. Now sure how easy it is in these cars, but hey, look into it! Lastly, a tune would be beneficial as well |
Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950801)
No worries, still a bit cloudy for me to see something such as coolant to be made absolutely without h2o as a base.
|
But they still used water...
"Coolant The P-51 Maintenance Handbook recommends a 30/70% mixture of ethylene glycol and water for warmer climates and a 70/30% ethylene glycol and water for extremely cold climates." http://www.51-factory.com/cooling_sy...aintenance.pdf |
Originally Posted by xXHotelCrazyXx
(Post 5950711)
I wasn't referring to it as an element from the periodic table of elements Sportstick, I was referring to it as wind, fire, earth, and water :)
|
Originally Posted by Big Daddy
(Post 5950890)
During recent 49 degrees C weather recently I did a 2000km drive. The coolant temp never deviated from the 90 deg c and the power was normal. The only problem was the A/C had a hard job keeping the interior cool
I don't think the MB engineers envisaged keeping the cab cool with that temp!!. Yes, I agree , I am amazed how the engine coolant temp never varies. Says something for the controls & radiator capacity. JC |
Back on topic, waterless coolants are not good for most street cars.
They do not carry heat as well as a properly diluted glycol coolant. Your car will run hotter with more variance in temp throughout the engine. They are good for show cars that are in storage because the chance of corrosion is lower. |
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