Seems true for the 3 series

 

Yes agreed. The W205 lacked character. To me, it felt like driving a fancy rental car, or a German rental car (at least it felt like you're sitting in a luxury car. The 3 Series while drives better to me, actually feels like you're sitting IN a rental car with that horrible interior). Nice, smooth, but no real distinctive virtues and just forgettable after you leave it. It's a good day to day car, but I find that as an enthusiast it didn't give me much to chew on.

Yes, the E to me suffers in two ways: Driving dynamics, but that's not something that you expect from MB. So it's the harsh suspension that ruined it for me, as with a luxury intended i.e anti sporty ride, the last thing you should accept is harshness, which both my E's had in discomforting spades. Maybe they improved that on newer models.
But if the roads are smooth, then yes, it feels like a Mercedes, like a W126 incarnate, and it brought back a sense of solidity. However, again, that was ruined on both of mine after bad roads had literally rattled them up.

The C felt more like how an Infiniti that's intended to be all comfort and no sport would drive, not really with classic Mercedes "bull strong" like feel. Though again, I'm not faulting it, it drives GOOD, but it does so in the "so does a Camry" aspect.

 

3 and 4, disappointingly.......when I drove both, and then the 2, I immediately recognized the 2 is their "truest" car at this point and can only hope the next gen larger cars arise from the spirit of the 2.

 

Did you use the Agility Select to make the steering heavier? I wonder if that would've done a lot to "correct" the issue.

My experience is w/ the "newer" MBs. My parents had a 300D and a 380SL (neither of which I drove). I drove the 190E (2.6), the 300E, the C280, C320 (god, what a horrible car overall, although at least the steering was properly weighted), the E320 (W211; another horrible car, although at least most of the interior looked appropriately upscale.... aside from the thinly padded and cheap-feeling front seats; the steering in that car felt like joystick and the car would hop sideways disconcerting over bumps at high speed), and we've had 4 W204s btw us (my parents started leasing MBs in the last few yrs).

The C320 and E320 were so bad that I thought I'd probably go w/ another luxury make when the time came for me to get my own car, but fortunately MB now seems to remember what made its cars desirable.... After E320, we tried a 328i. A most fantastic driving car, but BMW doesn't seem to understand ergonomics or how to design a car w/o significant electrical glitches.

 

I did not and it may have. Await your driving the W205 and your impressions.

 

I tried to schedule a test drive at the local dealership (which was a diff dealership than where I bought the car) the first 1-2 wks after it was released. Even though I made an appt, their business was apparently so fantastic that they totally ignored me (I felt so badly about taking a salesperson away from a deal that I gave them my number to schedule a test drive the following day). They never got back to me. =P

 

Took a brief test drive tonight (the local dealer was having some sort of promotional event). They had a C300 Luxury but couldn't find the keys, so I drove a pretty loaded C300 Sport (actual sport).

In some ways, it's an impressive car. The displays are absolutely gorgeous. Seats are very supportive and comfortable. Switchgear (what I could see of it in the evening) was beautiful.

I couldn't figure out how to use the gear selector properly. =P Turn stalk seems to be of higher quality than the later W204s.

Swoopy exterior means the sightlines aren't as good as the W204.

Steering is a disappointment. Not significantly different from the W204 and feels even more remote (but less synthetic). The door slam is still relatively solid but not as reassuring as the W204. The interior door handles (in addition to being oddly angled) feel VERY light. Not quite flimsy but very delicate. Kind of odd.

Power delivery was good (significantly improved from the C250). NVH seemed fairly well controlled. Body motions seemed better controlled vs. my C250. Ride is silent and was fairly comfortable (seemed better than my C250 Sport, sadly enough). But the roads around the dealership are relatively smooth.

Salesperson quote $569/mo for a 7500 mi/yr lease (didn't given duration of lease, oddly enough). Says they're selling 4-5/day.

I like the car a lot. But I can see why some people would prefer an E-class, actually....

 

Four weeks into ownership and I have a few comments I'll add to the dialog about steering and ride/handling.

The steering is very light, lighter than what I've been used to, but it is accurate and fairly quick. It also has very good on-center tracking. In hard turns it actually does seem to firm up. Using Agility, Sport has little effect on the weighting or feel, but Sport+ does have a significant impact. Unfortunately, Sport+ also programs in very hard shift points, so I rarely use it. On the Individual program mode of Agility you do have the option of programming just your steering, but you can only go for Comfort or Sport, not Sport+ ... on my standard non-sport C300 anyway. It is comparable in feel to the current crop of Audi A4's, which I have owned and driven extensively. On my 2012 Volvo S60 R-D, I could select the steering weight from light to heavy, and always kept it on heavy. The electric steering on my Porsche Boxster S is perfectly weighted and has decent feedback through the wheel, but I don't really expect this on a sedan.

Having said that, I am adjusting to the steering on this car and don't find it to be a major issue at this point.

The ride over bad roads is stiffer than I expected, but certainly not punishing. It is more forgiving than the relatively harsh ride of the Volvo, but not as forgiving as the A4. The general comfort level is quite good, and NVH levels are excellent. I live in the mountains and drive on few level or straight roads. The handling, even with the non-sport setup, has been very good. Certainly not as crisp as My Porsche, but comparable to the competition. It feels softer, but is very easy to control through even the sharpest turns at speed.

I've seen other critical points brought up on this forum. The internal door handles are very light to the touch, but they are not at all flimsy and work smoothly. The often maligned "cheap plastic" trim on the vents is actually aluminum and blends in well with the rest of the aluminum trim used throughout the interior. The often confusing COMAND system has a steep learning curve but, once mastered, makes perfect sense and is fairly easy to use and access the car's functions.

I like Keyless Go and find the locking/unlocking very convenient to use. I added the audible lock feature so I don't have to watch the door plungers to make sure the car is locked. I also activated all the external lighting so, when I leave the car, the door handles and side mirrors illuminate the car.

This is my first MB and, I must admit, they do things a bit differently. The car took some getting used to but, at this point, both my wife and I have gotten familiar with how things work and are very comfortable with the car. It is not as aggressive as some of the roadsters and sport sedans I've owned, but it is a totally competent and enjoyable car to be in an. One professional reviewer put it best when he said that this car is not the best in its class at any one thing, but it does everything well and has no weak points.

 

I thought to, too, but there are some counterpoints. Among the 8 or 9 4-series I drove so far there were some excellent steering feel vehicles among them, 2 to be specific. People also say the current M3/M4 is much better and it has electric support but a higher quality steering rack (Thyssen) than the F30s. The f30 variants all drive completely different from each other and it is obvious to me that BMW adjusts the steering support on an individual car basis based on what they think the buyer of that line (luxury, m-sport etc) and body style expects. The convertibles are all terrible, unfortunately. I also checked the tires, the difference doesn't come from different tires.

In the F10 5-series you get hydraulic steering if you buy AWD and electric if you buy RWD. However, generic no-line, no-DHP xdrive F10s still drive terrible. There is no noticeable improvement from the hydraulic system, and other xdrive BMWs drive very nicely so xdrive isn't what ruins it.

I believe the problem is bad steering racks and randomly picked adjustments of the strength of power steering support, which is usually picked for more casual drivers than those who hang out on mbworld or bimmerfest.

 

Not all electric steerings are bad. I find Porsche's to be excellent on all the models I've driven (pretty consistent though formed to live up to each models utmost intention).

With the W205, the entire vibe of the car, from interior styling to its high focus on technology (compared to any M-B before it, really, aside from the new S) to the way it drives, puts forth the message that it's intended to be driven very calmly. Though I find most M-B's these days to be too punishing on rough roads when you factor in how floaty they generally remain through turns or on smooth straights. Where the C started to crack when I drove it is when I started pushing even a little bit harder, whereas the chassis, steering, etc. started to get sloppy. It responds well to sedated driving where you just coast forward and take in the calming interior environment.

 

Lets get this C vs 3 thing over with. Performance-wise, with airmatic, the C can be noticeably more comfortable and noticeably more planted depending on setting. In comfort mode the car has excellent isolation without ever being floaty. Its not quite the magic carpet ride of an S class but a good facsimile. That is to be expected given the huge difference in wheel base and weight. On sportplus+ the car is sportier than any BMW below an M series, shifts are as fast and as crisp as any dual clutch, steering gets heftier and stays as precise as ever. Suspension firmness is excellent, the car says straight an level but not rock hard. Mid corner bump absorption is maintained admirably, cornering is excellent and limits are commendably high, better tires would probably raise the skidpad to the mid .9 G's since the car only comes with all season tires. All this is true with the basic suspension but the airmatic enhances the basic character even more. So as far as sport is concerned, at this time, the C is outsporting the 3 while still maintaining more overall poise and comfort. Its all in the toggle switch! Its not like the 3 is suddenly crap, its just that the benz, for now, has the upper hand. Mercedes benchmarked the 3 very carefully with the aim of beating or matching it in pretty much every parameter, the result was a much nicer car overall. I wouldn't be surprised if BMW did the same thing next time around. The issue BMW is going to have is price. Mercedes has moved assembly of the C to the US and South Africa thus partially insulating it from currency fluctuations and the expensive Euro. It will be difficult for BMW to price match them successfully, but we will see.

 

Lol. The W205 is noted as less sporty than even the W204 by many reviewers and drivers. More sporty than even the F30 3, no way. More sporty "than any BMW below an M Series"? Couldn't be further from (actually apposite from) the truth.

And no, the 9G slushbox doesn't touch a DCT like PDK. Nice and smooth but no dual-clutch, certainly not even as sporty as the ZF8 slushbox, IMO.

 

I think this is the problem which doesn't allow the topic to end, as the premise is questionable. Notwithstanding the press reports to the contrary of your opinion, your comments suggest "sporty" is a good/better thing, more desireable, and the goal of any worthwhile car. It's not. It's just one attribute which a manufacturer may or may not wish to target. "Sporty" is not the "holy grail".

The C is a small luxury car and has relinquished any sporting pretensions it had in the W204 (which I came to know very well) and has improved its stance in the car market by focussing on what MB does best... "Bank vault on wheels" luxury cars in different sizes. One of our more esteemed members and moderator, Glynn Ruck, once said that the "bank vault" experience is fun for him. That appreciation is the target for MB! That is not less desirable than "Sporty" any more than chocolate is a better flavor than strawberry.

BMW knows it has strayed too far toward MB with the F30, and that will be corrected to put them back on their track with the 35UP platform coming next. So, the best way to get this thing over with is to stop comparing! Apples and oranges! MB makes the best luxury sedan in the segment (and others), and, learning from the positive response to the 2 Series, BMW will likely re-establish itself as the best luxury sports sedan for the next 3 and 5. Let them each be who they are and appreciate the differences...neither should have to out-do the other at what the other does best.

 

BINGO! Brilliant post.

M

 

Very well put. What's interesting is how you don't see as many people making broad and inaccurate statements about the 3 Series exceeding the C Class in luxury. Most of them just complain that the F30 feels "too Mercedes at all" for a 3 Series, period.

Though, the W205 has given up a bit of that tank-like solidity while driving down the road, "loosening/softening" their grip on that, literally. The vibe I got was that M-B wanted to be a little friendlier and easier to understand/swallow for the mass consumer this time around. However, the interior which aside from some acceptable little bits here or there which are inconsistent, knocks it out of the park, and it seems that's where most of the cars investment and focus went into. The average buyer will surely perceive the car as more luxurious due to the class-busting interior rather than some loss in solidity-feel, but to me that lost it some distinctiveness, character (relative lack of tank like tracking down the road) and presence.

To true M-B fans, "tank like solidity" truly is fun, it's the M-B culture equivalent of BMW sportiness. It's what the enthusiasts seek, so that's why it bothered me a bit that it wasn't at the forefront of the W205 like it was the W204. Though the W204 launched with a horrid interior, so again, seems like that's the tradeoff (they have to cut back somewhere in order to meet margins).

 

Great post sport stick. I like sporty in a track. And would prefer a Lamborgini or roadster to "sporty coupe or sedan" for the purpose. On regular roads, not for me. MB has my needs pretty darn pegged. To each their own.

 

The 205 less sporty that the 204. I can tell you havent driven it!
Is the 205 more comfortable? Absolutely
Will it run circles around a 3 series when set in sport plus? Most definitely.
will it crack your butt while driving circles around the Bimmer absolutely not.
I always find it ridiculous that comfort and performance should be antagonistic, so does the new C. If you have have a 335, I stronly recommend you leave the C400 alone, it willl embarras you every time. If its a 318 I would watch my butt too since the C 300 might be hungry too, just a tad slower in the straight parts.

 

I get concerned about people who may have 'buyer's remorse', after switching to BMW's from MB's, and won't leave this forum to those who have at least some interest in the W205's.

 

And this, IMHO, is as much a defining characteristic of MB as anything else it does well.

Interesting to read what you wrote about the steering vs. the A4. My understanding is that, of all the luxury makes, Audi probably has done the best job w/ electric steering. I do wonder if my opinion of the steering might've been diff had been able to drive it at highway speed. I had just been hoping that Sport+ would make the steering heavier, and it didn't. I do think the steering is better than the previous gen Infiniti G, which was nicely weighted but felt artificially so.

As far as light vs. flimsy.... I think Honda is (or, at least, USED to be) a good example of how to make controls feellight, accurate, smooth, and high quality. The interior handle, IMO, was CLOSE to this, but not quite there. Didn't feel cheap, though. Just kind of delicate.

Regarding the ride and handling.... Hard for me to say since I was basically driving in straight lines or making a U-turn. However, given that body control seemed significant better controlled to me, I actually think W205 blows away in the W204 in this respect. It felt both more planted AND more comfortable. So while it's more isolated, I wouldn't say it's less sporty. I always felt that the "standard" sport suspension on the W204 only gave the negatives of a truly sporty suspension (harder ride) w/o any associated positives. ::shrug::

I think I'd be quite happy w/ the car. Good thing I'm not in the market, b/c I need some time to save up for it.

 

Actually it's pretty apparent that you're the one who hasn't driven any of these cars if that's where you feel their strengths lie. In a straight line, I assume the C400 should be faster than the getting to 5 year old N55, by a little bit, but straight line speed doesn't equal "sporty" at all. There's absolutely nothing sporty about the fundamental W205 (until AMG get their hands on it), it's toward the bottom of class in that regard. It's not even intended to be so, M-B wanted to make it a smaller S Class now more than ever.

 

I haven't driven the C400. I did drive the C300 extensively both on an autocross and on normal roads. I have driven the 318 and 335 extensively. PLUS I drove the 320 and C300 back to back. The point is simple, the 3 series is not more agile than the W205 which is particularly noticeable in sport+ mode. I would expect the C400 to be slightly more nose heavy than the 300 which, of course, it is, same thing applies to the 320 vs 335. Thrust-wise the 300 is good, the 400 we all know is a monster. The electric steering on the C is spectacular (even if there is little feel which is true of even my s2000 electric rack) as are the brakes. Simply, performance-wise Mercedes has the upper hand for now. Next year is still a year away, by then the C63 with up to 503Hp will be out humiliating M3's too! Of course you will have to pay $$$$$ for that pleasure!

 

By almost every account, the W205 has less emphasis on sportiness than ever before. The C300 I drove was very soft and not chassis-sharp, more like a compact E Class. The 328i is still a much more dynamic car, though increasingly less luxurious, and I haven't heard any especially objective reviewer state otherwise.

The real story is that MB clearly gave up on trying to chase BMW and let the 3 have the sportiness crown with no dispute, while putting their efforts into luxury vibe again. The things that stuck out the most about the 205 were: Wow the interior is a huge improvement. And wow does it drive more soft, clinical and characterless, more than ever before.

Btw you must have a very different definition of "spectacular steering" than many. The steering is far from the cars strong suit and frankly was one of the most underwhelming parts of the drive. Absolutely no character or dynamism to it. A simply good, comfortable and sedate feel, not sporty in even its heaviest setting. Basically an ultimate mass comfort commuter steering feel, again, very much in keeping with MB's intention for the car. The verbage you use to describe the car sounds like you're not even the market MB planned to intend for the car (sounds more stereotypically BMW actually).

 

ENOUGH ???

 

Have you driven it????????
The comparisons with the 204 mainly mean that the ride is less stiff, and of course, in comfort mode, the 205 is a much better ride. That doesn't mean that at the flick of a switch, the personality is completely different though still comfortable. Let me put it simple terms the darned thing handles so well, that after my test drive I took my s2000 on the same track to convince myself that the S2k could drive it better, of course it did ! But to even have to wonder whether if did or not goes a long way to put the C's adeptness to a curvy road. No C has ever come close. As Consumer Reports has stated, the C corners with ALACRITY. Gee the W204 seems primitive to the W205. Maybe they should have named it C 2.0 not even the bones remain from the previous car.

 

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself here. I haven't even seen one person consider the car sporty at all, nonetheless how much you describe it.

Yes, I've driven it and pushed it pretty hard to come away fairly surprised at how soft and clinical it felt even for a Mercedes. I feel like even with its focus on luxury, it is too lazy and bordering on the chassis being sloppy for a C Class when you want to get a little spirited, and while it's a more refined drive than the W204 it lacks that "bomb proof solidity" feeling. I felt like there was a lack of character coming from the suspension and chassis, and came here to find many feel the same way. There's no doubt that the even softened F30 is a more dynamic, immersive and sporty drive, falling short on luxury. Basically the way it should be and the W205 marks MB accepting that role again.

I'm sure it outperforms and outhandles the W204, as it should, but it doesn't push that message while you drive it via its lack of "soul", IMO.

Btw "C 2.0" makes no sense as it's not the second iteration C to come it, lol.