I don't think people "get" the new C class yet. Are they really selling?
10-27-2014, 12:45 PM
#51
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We use the same expression here. 
I expect the W205 to do very well in the US, but it did roll out with not much fanfare. In the last two weeks. I'm just starting to see ads on TV, but still not very much in printed media.
Part of the problem is that the MB sales network here is spread fairly thin, and the closest dealer is often quite a distance away. In my case, the ONLY dealer in my state is nearly a two hour drive each way so it's anything but convenient to buy and service any MB product. The dealer networks are clustered in major metropolitan areas, then seem to disappear.
The W205 online inventory of my MB dealer hasn't changed much since I bought my C300 in September.
I expect the W205 to do very well in the US, but it did roll out with not much fanfare. In the last two weeks. I'm just starting to see ads on TV, but still not very much in printed media.
Part of the problem is that the MB sales network here is spread fairly thin, and the closest dealer is often quite a distance away. In my case, the ONLY dealer in my state is nearly a two hour drive each way so it's anything but convenient to buy and service any MB product. The dealer networks are clustered in major metropolitan areas, then seem to disappear.
The W205 online inventory of my MB dealer hasn't changed much since I bought my C300 in September.
10-27-2014, 01:27 PM
#52
Super Member
Yesterday in traffic at a stop light, a guy in a newer Audi sedan pulled up next to me in my C400 and was yelling at me. I couldn't hear him due to the quiet interior and the sound system. I figured I cut him off or something. I turned the sound off and realized all he was saying was "nice looking car" and he gave a thumbs up (not the finger I originally expected).
12-03-2014, 09:13 AM
#53
Just wanted to point out MB moved 9,259 C-class's in the US this month. Pretty much all of the W204 C-class sedans should be gone by now, so this a good number (since the coupe doesn't contribute much).
Uh...I think you're really going out on a limb with the speculation here.
Uh...I think you're really going out on a limb with the speculation here.
12-03-2014, 02:40 PM
#54
Super Member
Based on my observations:
-Initial response seems tepid to nonexistent even. The W204 seemed to really have a "pop" effect when it came out. I also feel like the exterior design just doesn't look right, which is subjective, but I haven't really witnessed much enthusiasm about that aspect. The beauty lies on the inside, and if the exterior isn't all that enticing for some people, it might take them a while to even get past it into the interior to realize where the cars strong suit truly is.
-It's still new, so I'd say inventory can be a factor, but the dealer I went to over 1.5 months ago had a ton of them come in, and it seems like they're in full running supply with plentifully huge numbers sitting on dealer lots now.
-By and large it's the type of car that people lease rather than buy, and M-B further perpetuates that with their artificially high residuals and incentives. Lease rates don't have heavy support yet, especially after W204's were getting leased in the $200's seemingly commonly enough.
-THE PRICE. With the nicer interior, comes a nicer price tag. The market might not be ready to pay what they deem much closer to E Class pricing for a C Class. Either M-B are going to stick to their plans and stay firm, sacrificing some volume sales, or you're gonna see MASSIVE discounts in the years to come on this car (if recent history is anything to go by, it'll be the latter).
-The CLA kind of changes the dynamic. The C Class is still a C Class, looks like one, and not everybody wants the uncharacteristically bean-bag FWD proportioned/skinny legged/cruder interior/IMO awkward looking and very compact (especially roofline) CLA (I'm not even gonna get into that GLA). But they want a small, RWD (or AWD) Sedan. So the C wants to move up in price, but many people still see it as a C Class, and consider the CLA too subpar to take seriously, therefore it's a lose/lose for those people, as the C goes up in price, but the cheaper semi "alternative" isn't one they will consider.
-I feel that some people who have been sold on the "powersliding sporty 4 door M-B" commercials will drive it and think it's way too soft and luxury oriented, more than before (a return to the pre-modern M-B approach of accepting luxury as its forefront specialty and relinquishing the sport race). But I also think that lots of especially mature types (who can afford the price increase easier, generally) will "get it" and there might be a little shift in demographic as people reevaluate what a C Class "means" with this new model.
All that said. I can almost guarantee that these cars will be as common as lamp posts in the coming years, just like every other C Class. It's still too early. It'll be everywhere.
It'll probably be the highest selling C Class. It'll have to be and Daimler will make sure of that. Just like the W206 will be after that, then the W207, then W208, etc. etc....
-Initial response seems tepid to nonexistent even. The W204 seemed to really have a "pop" effect when it came out. I also feel like the exterior design just doesn't look right, which is subjective, but I haven't really witnessed much enthusiasm about that aspect. The beauty lies on the inside, and if the exterior isn't all that enticing for some people, it might take them a while to even get past it into the interior to realize where the cars strong suit truly is.
-It's still new, so I'd say inventory can be a factor, but the dealer I went to over 1.5 months ago had a ton of them come in, and it seems like they're in full running supply with plentifully huge numbers sitting on dealer lots now.
-By and large it's the type of car that people lease rather than buy, and M-B further perpetuates that with their artificially high residuals and incentives. Lease rates don't have heavy support yet, especially after W204's were getting leased in the $200's seemingly commonly enough.
-THE PRICE. With the nicer interior, comes a nicer price tag. The market might not be ready to pay what they deem much closer to E Class pricing for a C Class. Either M-B are going to stick to their plans and stay firm, sacrificing some volume sales, or you're gonna see MASSIVE discounts in the years to come on this car (if recent history is anything to go by, it'll be the latter).
-The CLA kind of changes the dynamic. The C Class is still a C Class, looks like one, and not everybody wants the uncharacteristically bean-bag FWD proportioned/skinny legged/cruder interior/IMO awkward looking and very compact (especially roofline) CLA (I'm not even gonna get into that GLA). But they want a small, RWD (or AWD) Sedan. So the C wants to move up in price, but many people still see it as a C Class, and consider the CLA too subpar to take seriously, therefore it's a lose/lose for those people, as the C goes up in price, but the cheaper semi "alternative" isn't one they will consider.
-I feel that some people who have been sold on the "powersliding sporty 4 door M-B" commercials will drive it and think it's way too soft and luxury oriented, more than before (a return to the pre-modern M-B approach of accepting luxury as its forefront specialty and relinquishing the sport race). But I also think that lots of especially mature types (who can afford the price increase easier, generally) will "get it" and there might be a little shift in demographic as people reevaluate what a C Class "means" with this new model.
All that said. I can almost guarantee that these cars will be as common as lamp posts in the coming years, just like every other C Class. It's still too early. It'll be everywhere.
It'll probably be the highest selling C Class. It'll have to be and Daimler will make sure of that. Just like the W206 will be after that, then the W207, then W208, etc. etc....
You have a peculiar writing style.
12-03-2014, 03:57 PM
#55
Senior Member
I doubt this will become as common as the previous "C"...that distinction will now belong to the CLA....folks are looking to get into an MB at a price point their wallets can handle. It's the CLA that "still" has a 6 month wait to get...and we're talking a year since it's been released. It seems apparent that MB wants a distinguishable line between models...consumers (who buy) also want that same distinction. For those folks who look at the C as an the entry level MB just don't know any better and will be sadly disappointed when they go into a dealership and realize it's not at an entry level price. It's going to take time for folks to get used this...
12-03-2014, 04:29 PM
#56
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In Canada MB sold 671 units in November. The is significantly fewer units than November 2012 and 2013 with the w204 where they sold in the low 800s in each year. Also I figure that Canada sells roughly one tenth of the US sales figures (roughly one tenth the population) which as TangoRed pointed out were over 9200 for Nov. I think the lower numbers for Canada is directly related to lower discounts on this side of the border.
12-04-2014, 12:59 AM
#57
Senior Member
There are quite a few on the roads here in Nagoya, Japan. They seem to be selling them faster than they can get 'em. I went in to order one and was given a 6 month delivery date.
12-04-2014, 01:00 AM
#58
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Nothing
Still haven't seen one in the western suburbs of Boston. And in the wealthy suburb in which I live, Mercedes has the second highest number of registrations, behind only Toyota! The town crawls with Mercedes. In our tiny downtown (just a handful of stores), it is not unusual to see 3-4 or more parked. On the roads, I have more than once seen three in a row, one behind the other (not counting me, passing in the opposite direction). Still, no 2015 C300s or C400s.
12-04-2014, 08:12 AM
#59
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2015 C450; 2008 RX400h
In Canada MB sold 671 units in November. The is significantly fewer units than November 2012 and 2013 with the w204 where they sold in the low 800s in each year. Also I figure that Canada sells roughly one tenth of the US sales figures (roughly one tenth the population) which as TangoRed pointed out were over 9200 for Nov. I think the lower numbers for Canada is directly related to lower discounts on this side of the border.
The heads up display for $1500 but only $990 in US, a 59% markup. For the C400, partial LED is standard (a $900 option in C300). The active LED option in the C300 is $1200 more. In the C400, it active LED is a $1200 option! What happened to the $900 partial LED that didn't need to be installed? If you want a C400 should you have to pay more for the same parts than if you ordered a C300? Moreover, in the US, active LED in the C400 is also $800 more for the C300 and C400, but I believe partial LED is standard on both models (Canada C300 has halogen standard). As well, the US $800 package includes adaptive highbeam assist which is another $250 in Canada. So, it costs $1450 in Canada for the US $800 package (not counting the $900 you paid for the standard partial LED lights in the C400).
And what about a heated steering wheel for Canada? I know it exists, but I guess since they are built in Alabama, it was not worth having an option only for Canada and some northern US states? MB needs to rethink that business case.
I appreciate we pay more than the US, but the packaging and pricing differences between the US and Canada is more than just dollar and market difference, and I do not mind paying a premium for a MB in Canada. However, with this packaging, it feels like MB Canada is being disrespectful of their customer (is sucker written on my forehead?).
Thanks for letting me rant. I had to get that off my chest.
12-04-2014, 12:56 PM
#60
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
I think they are selling now. They moved over 9K units last month. I don't remember a number that high before. I see commercials now for $419 a month leases and there are adds everywhere now. There are 2 in my parking garage now. One a stripper and the other loaded with the bigger wheels and everything. Such a gorgeous car.
M
M
12-04-2014, 01:26 PM
#61
Super Member
I think they are selling now. They moved over 9K units last month. I don't remember a number that high before. I see commercials now for $419 a month leases and there are adds everywhere now. There are 2 in my parking garage now. One a stripper and the other loaded with the bigger wheels and everything. Such a gorgeous car.
M
M
edit: tried to paste the table here, but the format was all messed up so I deleted it.
12-04-2014, 01:28 PM
#62
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
Yep, 9259 this past month. The next biggest month since 2010 was Nov of 2012 with 8565 (from good car bad car). Now there are still w204s being sold (both in 2014 and 2015 vintages) so that confuses things, but still it was a good month.
edit: tried to paste the table here, but the format was all messed up so I deleted it.
edit: tried to paste the table here, but the format was all messed up so I deleted it.
M
12-04-2014, 01:56 PM
#63
Super Member
Oh, and if the w205 coupe looks anything like the S-Class coupe, they'll sell a bazillion of em.
12-04-2014, 02:14 PM
#64
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Agreed. IMO the 2014's should be going for much less than many dealers are asking. Also, they are still making 2015 w204s - coupes and C63s. A local dealer has 2 2015 C350s and a C63 (MSRPs $51k, $54k and $89k). Frankly I am surprised that people are buying them.
Oh, and if the w205 coupe looks anything like the S-Class coupe, they'll sell a bazillion of em.
Oh, and if the w205 coupe looks anything like the S-Class coupe, they'll sell a bazillion of em.
M
12-05-2014, 07:46 AM
#65
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Why? I had an MBUSA rep tell me on the "advisors" board that the reason why they gave the W212 the sport package for free was to try and spur sales in the last years of the W211, and it went over well enough to carry into the W212 which with its massive discounts and fleet-presence approach of "every car with the same package" has clearly been a volume-agenda for Mercedes. It seems they're trying to go back to their roots of a more premium optioning structure of variety and individuality (thus charging for sports package again). If it doesn't work due to their culturing oppositely of the past 7 or so years, then them going back to a fleet-car "one look for all" model IMO would be a certain tell.
Regardless, as I said before, the W205 will be everywhere. Regardless of market perception, it's a C Class, which means they need for it to be a volume model. So if they have to totally make no sense of the MSRP price-hike attempt by way of blowing them out the doors at $299 a month, they'll do it sooner than I think even any of us think.
Don't be surprised if you see C300's and CLA's crossing leasing price paths closer, again, than the MSRP's would suggest (M-B and BMW MSRP's have become pretty much pointless by now anyway). The C is still M-B's most important mass-volume model. The CLA is too new, unproven, FWD, and downmarket in experience I think for the brand to let it truly cannibalize the C, yet.
Regardless, as I said before, the W205 will be everywhere. Regardless of market perception, it's a C Class, which means they need for it to be a volume model. So if they have to totally make no sense of the MSRP price-hike attempt by way of blowing them out the doors at $299 a month, they'll do it sooner than I think even any of us think.
Don't be surprised if you see C300's and CLA's crossing leasing price paths closer, again, than the MSRP's would suggest (M-B and BMW MSRP's have become pretty much pointless by now anyway). The C is still M-B's most important mass-volume model. The CLA is too new, unproven, FWD, and downmarket in experience I think for the brand to let it truly cannibalize the C, yet.
12-05-2014, 05:18 PM
#66
Super Member
Why? I had an MBUSA rep tell me on the "advisors" board that the reason why they gave the W212 the sport package for free was to try and spur sales in the last years of the W211, and it went over well enough to carry into the W212 which with its massive discounts and fleet-presence approach of "every car with the same package" has clearly been a volume-agenda for Mercedes. It seems they're trying to go back to their roots of a more premium optioning structure of variety and individuality (thus charging for sports package again). If it doesn't work due to their culturing oppositely of the past 7 or so years, then them going back to a fleet-car "one look for all" model IMO would be a certain tell.
Regardless, as I said before, the W205 will be everywhere. Regardless of market perception, it's a C Class, which means they need for it to be a volume model. So if they have to totally make no sense of the MSRP price-hike attempt by way of blowing them out the doors at $299 a month, they'll do it sooner than I think even any of us think.
Don't be surprised if you see C300's and CLA's crossing leasing price paths closer, again, than the MSRP's would suggest (M-B and BMW MSRP's have become pretty much pointless by now anyway). The C is still M-B's most important mass-volume model. The CLA is too new, unproven, FWD, and downmarket in experience I think for the brand to let it truly cannibalize the C, yet.
Regardless, as I said before, the W205 will be everywhere. Regardless of market perception, it's a C Class, which means they need for it to be a volume model. So if they have to totally make no sense of the MSRP price-hike attempt by way of blowing them out the doors at $299 a month, they'll do it sooner than I think even any of us think.
Don't be surprised if you see C300's and CLA's crossing leasing price paths closer, again, than the MSRP's would suggest (M-B and BMW MSRP's have become pretty much pointless by now anyway). The C is still M-B's most important mass-volume model. The CLA is too new, unproven, FWD, and downmarket in experience I think for the brand to let it truly cannibalize the C, yet.
I think all automakers are into a "volume agenda", not sure why you invest so much hand wringing over MB's sales strategy.
They sell a lot of cars, make all kinds of money, win F1 championships, etc...I think you are speculating again, rampantly, about a 299/month Class. Really.
I think the C class will be "everywhere" because it is, right now, a better package than all the others and at the end of the day will be priced competitively. They always are. The C400 in Canada is 2000$ less than a 335xi. Full jam they are roughly $1800 apart, the Benz being more. You think these automakers don't know their market? Audi S4, equipped full loaded is, 68340, right between the 66800 of he Bimmer and 68450 of the Benz. And yes, it is just a C Class that blows the other away right now at their price point, the BMW interior looks Hertz compared to the Benz and the Audi is always excellent inside, but still a notch below.
That is why this segment is tough, in a good way, on consumers. BMW, Mercedes make you choose the car you want because at the end of the day they cost the same, not to say that MB absolutely owns BMW in the leasing game. So all this to say that they aren't going to be 299/mo any time soon!
12-05-2014, 07:43 PM
#67
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
You're in Canada? Maybe not there, but I'm pretty certain we'll start seeing people getting the W205 for $299 a month in the states with minimal down at some point, before the facelift, regardless of original MSRP. Unless the car has so much demand and has so much market traction that dealers and corporate find no reason to pump it up with huge incentives, but again, it's a balancing act they're walking with the sticker shock "for a C Class" that people will undoubtedly be getting. The W204 practically started getting given away at some point.
12-05-2014, 08:16 PM
#68
Super Moderator
KA ~ A pattern is forming here. This is not the OT. Remember that.
To your point. Benz USA is trying to prevent exactly what happened with the W204. Because it was at the time the entry level USA model, margins were wafer thin from day one & features had to be trimmed to meet sticker price ~ many under the skin. That is not the Benz model. In future the US will pay pricing more in line with global norms.
As for the E Class. Although vastly improved at the facelift it is an unpopular car globally. The next E Class will likely be a winner or heads will roll.
To your point. Benz USA is trying to prevent exactly what happened with the W204. Because it was at the time the entry level USA model, margins were wafer thin from day one & features had to be trimmed to meet sticker price ~ many under the skin. That is not the Benz model. In future the US will pay pricing more in line with global norms.
As for the E Class. Although vastly improved at the facelift it is an unpopular car globally. The next E Class will likely be a winner or heads will roll.
12-05-2014, 09:04 PM
#69
Super Member
You're in Canada? Maybe not there, but I'm pretty certain we'll start seeing people getting the W205 for $299 a month in the states with minimal down at some point, before the facelift, regardless of original MSRP. Unless the car has so much demand and has so much market traction that dealers and corporate find no reason to pump it up with huge incentives, but again, it's a balancing act they're walking with the sticker shock "for a C Class" that people will undoubtedly be getting. The W204 practically started getting given away at some point.
For argument's sake, a loaded 335xi in the States, full jam as the C400 is 2 grand more...tell me where is the sticker shock going to happen relative to its competition?
The A3, CLA, 1 or 2 series are all now what the 3, C and A4 used to be. We have a Q5, GLK, X3 and now a GLA, Q3 and X1...the automakers are all in the same game yet you choose to single out the C Class when it is only priced in unison with its competitors.
12-06-2014, 12:57 PM
#70
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2015 C400 4matic W205
I'm seeing a lot more of them on the roads of Toronto.... But personally I would prefer it if the roads weren't saturated with them like they were with the w204. I've also had a few random people stop me in parking lots to ask me questions about the car. I think there is still an awareness issue, as some people are puzzled to discover it is a c class and that there is now a c400 version (they thought it topped out at c350)
12-06-2014, 01:04 PM
#71
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2015 C400 4matic W205
You're in Canada? Maybe not there, but I'm pretty certain we'll start seeing people getting the W205 for $299 a month in the states with minimal down at some point, before the facelift, regardless of original MSRP. Unless the car has so much demand and has so much market traction that dealers and corporate find no reason to pump it up with huge incentives, but again, it's a balancing act they're walking with the sticker shock "for a C Class" that people will undoubtedly be getting. The W204 practically started getting given away at some point.
Last edited by jbbeauso; 12-06-2014 at 01:09 PM.
12-06-2014, 01:16 PM
#72
Super Member
The MBUSA adds running now are for $419/mo with $3 - $4k down. You can do better than this, but by how much I am not sure.
12-06-2014, 03:50 PM
#74
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Debadging a C300
Causing that confusion is not the reason that I am doing it. I first noticed it in Germany. Most cars there (of all makes) are debadged. It just makes a cleaner appearance.
12-06-2014, 06:07 PM
#75
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2015 E250 BT 4M
For 2014 calendar year, it would seem likely that E Class sales will exceed 250,000 !!! Hardly what I would call "unpopular" !
By the way, MB sales world wide are up by 12.4% for 11 months, largely due to the huge increase in sales of C Class (+53.3% in November). Source for MB sales figures: www.media.daimler.com
Last edited by DerekACS; 12-06-2014 at 06:16 PM.
