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I am a bit surprised they are unable to narrow the issue down to certain batches of seat covers. They say any car produced before January 5 could be affected.
I would also be concerned that they will not replace the seat covers if the seats are not exhibiting signs of the issue. Since they cannot narrow down which cars are affected what if you move to a colder climate or sell the car to a colder climate years down the road? The issue would have been there all along but may not exhibit itself till later.
Wow, great information. I notice in question 1, that leather may also exhibit the defect.
Apparently it's not the plasticizer we all thought it was, but a sealant used on MB-Tex and leather. It also covers the entire production range through January 5, 2015. Between the cost of the parts and the 1-2 days needed for the repairs, this sounds like it's going to be a very costly program for MB.
I question the translation/diagnosis of this issue. But time will tell.
Has anybody experienced this happen with leather?
Leather treatments "sealants" are very different in nature & composition to those used on plastics. Something sounds strange.
If it is truly a sealant then why do we have seats that show the problem everywhere but the centre armrest?
Based on the discussions here, no car with leather has been affected. Also, no surfaces other than the seats and headrests are affected even though MB-Tex is used throughout the interior. The official explanation raises as many questions as it answers.
Based on the discussions here, no car with leather has been affected. Also, no surfaces other than the seats and headrests are affected even though MB-Tex is used throughout the interior. The official explanation raises as many questions as it answers.
Wow, good info Stan. Least they could have done was used your photos though!!
Anyways, couple of interesting points to make about the bulletin.
1) Your first post about this issue was Jan 4th. Photos also went up Jan 4th.
2) The bulletin identifies cars produced "before Jan 5th" as being affected.
3) The problem went viral on Jan 7th via the Autoblog report.
Hmmm. Not too bad of a reaction time - 1 day - in stopping the presses and changing a line or supplier process if your original post and your photos were Mercedes' "uh oh" moment. Maybe they knew about it beforehand, maybe not. I tend to think Jan 4th was the trigger, much too coincidental otherwise, and if it was your info...good for MB for reading it and acting so quickly. Unless they're fibbing and just pulled the Jan 5th date out of thin air lol.
-Does anybody know what the purpose of the sealant was?
-Anybody know exactly what the kit looks like? Are we not getting new seat covers?
-I wonder if somehow the life of the MB-Tex has been shortened. When it was plasticizer that we suspected I wondered if our seats would become more brittle faster? Does the sealant in fact do something similar and the life has been shortened?
I've literally had the car for 1.5 weeks. This was supposed to be a 10-year car purchase for me (my last was 12 years). Now, I suppose I'm going to have to sell this in a few years (which sucks because in my mind I'll lose out on the deal). This is my thought process on a new luxury car during the honeymoon period (entry level I get, but still luxury). It's basically ruined the whole experience.
Does anybody know if I have any options here other than just waiting for the fix (given i've had it for 1.5 weeks)? Just as an example, I ordered take out from a restaurant tonight and upon getting home realized they forgot one item. They profusely apologized and said what other meal would I want free of charge to make up for having to drive back (I just asked them to throw in a dessert). I'm not looking to profit off this purchase of the car, but in the case of the restaurant they were able to diffuse the situation and ensure I come back again. I suppose an exchange with my dealership with a car w/ leather is (where I pay the difference) is off the table. This will only be the 3rd car I've purchased in my life and so I'm just not sure what my rights are, my options, and how dealerships try (or don't) to make customers feel whole.
-Does anybody know what the purpose of the sealant was?
-Anybody know exactly what the kit looks like? Are we not getting new seat covers?
-I wonder if somehow the life of the MB-Tex has been shortened. When it was plasticizer that we suspected I wondered if our seats would become more brittle faster? Does the sealant in fact do something similar and the life has been shortened?
I've literally had the car for 1.5 weeks. This was supposed to be a 10-year car purchase for me (my last was 12 years). Now, I suppose I'm going to have to sell this in a few years (which sucks because in my mind I'll lose out on the deal). This is my thought process on a new luxury car during the honeymoon period (entry level I get, but still luxury). It's basically ruined the whole experience.
Does anybody know if I have any options here other than just waiting for the fix (given i've had it for 1.5 weeks)? Just as an example, I ordered take out from a restaurant tonight and upon getting home realized they forgot one item. They profusely apologized and said what other meal would I want free of charge to make up for having to drive back (I just asked them to throw in a dessert). I'm not looking to profit off this purchase of the car, but in the case of the restaurant they were able to diffuse the situation and ensure I come back again. I suppose an exchange with my dealership with a car w/ leather is (where I pay the difference) is off the table. This will only be the 3rd car I've purchased in my life and so I'm just not sure what my rights are, my options, and how dealerships try (or don't) to make customers feel whole.
I don't think MB has the answers to be truthful yet.
And you have a good point IMO. There's not another product or consumable that we would deal with such an issue and just 'take it with a smile' as cars. Even on this board, people (not me) say you're making a mountain out of a mole hill, just use warranty, and be thankful they give a loaner. If this is your only unfortunate evidence of poor construction, maybe can have it fixed an move on....the culture is such that with cars you like, it is par for the course. I have no idea why. As I mentioned on another post, if this was a new tv, or anything else you bought, nobody would suck it up...it would go back.
If there's several items up front, I would expect a new car or buy back personally. It would have to be at your adamance, and expect dealer to think even if you've had half a dozen issues from poor build/QC in a matter of months, that you're unreasonable in your demand. You'll get nothing for your time usually, but money for dealer accessories, a free routine maintenance service, or even extended warranty can be doable in some circumstances...depending on the individual case and how wimpy the consumer is. As far as protections, it's only up to your states' lemon laws which usually have a number of days out of service or 3 strike, same issue rule. Dealers know this and by third time, even if your seats looked like a lion mauled them, they'll might report it as normal, or from something YOU did or didn't do. It will often require an attorney unfortunately for lemon laws or if there's been any damage to person.
All said, if you're very uneasy one week out and would take another product from your dealer and be content, talk with them. The car loses $$$$$$ the second you drive off their lot, but they might work something for you.
Last edited by floridadriver; 01-10-2015 at 04:56 AM.
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Originally Posted by floridadriver
I don't think MB has the answers to be truthful yet.
+1^ and even if they do. A pattern has emerged on this board over a number of years that MBUSA & their dealer staff treat customers as though they are idiots.
We are lucky on MBWorld to have many members that are highly competent technically & frequently know more about the cars than the Benz people that deal with the public & their dealer techs & service managers.
Just a few that come to mind, Johnand, Splinter, Diesel Benz, Rudeney, etc. etc. etc.
I am a bit surprised they are unable to narrow the issue down to certain batches of seat covers. They say any car produced before January 5 could be affected.
I would also be concerned that they will not replace the seat covers if the seats are not exhibiting signs of the issue. Since they cannot narrow down which cars are affected what if you move to a colder climate or sell the car to a colder climate years down the road? The issue would have been there all along but may not exhibit itself till later.
How is MBUSA's response to this problem acceptable to any owner who lives outside the Northeast and Midwest? Are the rest of us supposed to drive to the snow so we can test our seats for MBUSA? As you point out, sometimes people move to or vacation in cold climates. Sometimes this event happens after the car is out of warranty.
So far, MBUSA has done nothing but attempt to cover their rear ends by addressing the obvious situations as seen on this forum. But, in reality they have thousands of defective seats out there that they are betting will never see the type of weather to cause them to reveal this defect. How cynical can one company be?
This is my first MB. I had hoped for a long relationship with the C300 and the brand. I don't see that happening now. I really hope this issue stays alive in the media and grows to the point where MB pays for their cavalier response to selling defective merchandise to unsuspecting customers. A class-action suit would be ideal. Any company with integrity would either replace all MBTex interiors for the affected build period or allow customers to trade back their defective cars.
If you think I'm being overly dramatic, think about it. If this is how MBUSA is going to respond to defective seats, how much confidence should we have in them to deal appropriately with any other defect that may be lurking in the new C300? I sure hope the Alabama plant didn't install any defective airbags. Because, using MBUSA's response as a model, you would need to crash your car to prove you are one of the unlucky ones with a defective airbag.
It's amazing that anyone can view MB's response as appropriate. I don't think this thing is over for Mercedes Benz. Once some of the bigger media outlets get hold of this story and the sorry remedy MBUSA has cooked up, who knows how bad this will reflect on them. Not to mention how word-of-mouth dissatisfaction from affected owners can impact C300 sales and MB's overall reputation.
MB ruined this purchase for me and many others. They had the opportunity to rectify the situation by offering all current owners new seat covers. Instead they are going cheap and dirty. Well MBUSA, you reap what you sow.
I can hardly wait to see how this mickey mouse company responds to the bumper/taillight mass misalignments. I'm sure there will be a bulletin explaining that this obvious lack of quality control is actually within MB tolerances and that no C300 owner has been injured operating one of these vehicles, so too bad for you sucker!
I can hardly wait to see how this mickey mouse company responds to the bumper/taillight mass misalignments. I'm sure there will be a bulletin explaining that this obvious lack of quality control is actually within MB tolerances and that no C300 owner has been injured operating one of these vehicles, so too bad for you sucker!
I too am concerned about how the misaligned bumper/tail light issue will be handled. It probably effects all C Class vehicles. I haven't seen one yet without the defect, albeit I've only checked one dealers lot. My appointment to have this checked is January 19th. Hopefully the automotive press will pick up this issue before then. It seems as if it will take massive public pressure to get MB to take action.
Wow, good info Stan. Least they could have done was used your photos though!!
Anyways, couple of interesting points to make about the bulletin.
1) Your first post about this issue was Jan 4th. Photos also went up Jan 4th.
2) The bulletin identifies cars produced "before Jan 5th" as being affected.
3) The problem went viral on Jan 7th via the Autoblog report.
Hmmm. Not too bad of a reaction time - 1 day - in stopping the presses and changing a line or supplier process if your original post and your photos were Mercedes' "uh oh" moment. Maybe they knew about it beforehand, maybe not. I tend to think Jan 4th was the trigger, much too coincidental otherwise, and if it was your info...good for MB for reading it and acting so quickly. Unless they're fibbing and just pulled the Jan 5th date out of thin air lol.
Actually, Mark, the TSB was issued 12/19/2014, so they must have known about this problem for quite some time. Since not a word was even mentioned about this on any online forum before that 1/4 post, I'd bet the first reports of a problem were from dealers seeing it on cars in their lots. Cold nights, warm days, bleeding seats. Some very puzzled customers must have also brought their cars in, wondering what was happening to the seats in their new cars. On my car, an August build, the seats were normal until December, even though we have had below freezing temperatures since I picked up the car on 9/22.
I think my post on 1/4 was the first online report, and I got a call from MB-USA almost immediately after posting that ... and the rep specifically referred to that post. I was also asked about damage to clothing several times, and that's one of the issues addressed by this newest MB letter. The current response is a reaction to the seat issue now being publicly exposed by online media, and is a much needed attempt to calm owners who are seeing this disfigurement of their interiors. It's my understanding that new supplies of MB-Tex are being imported from Germany and will be retrofitted to all affected vehicles.
One question I have is about the MBWorld claim that this is caused by the glue that attaches the cover to the foam. On the main page article, this claim is made ... and it goes against everything we've postulated here, as well as the MB explanation of a bad sealant. Where did that come from? Also, if the covers are glued, how will they be replaced without damaging the foam underneath?
Regarding compensation from MB ... that's a question that remains open. Even after pressing the issue, I have received no specific responses other than "we want you to have a good experience with your new car." That means MB is still dealing with that issue and has reached no decision yet. I'm sure many of the phone calls they must be getting from irate owners are raising that question and want some commitment from them. They're not going to be handing out new cars for a fixable problem ... if that's the only issue with the car. My guess is that they'll offer free service coupons or extended warranties, but no vehicle replacements except in extraordinary circumstances that reach or border on Lemon Law status.
My guy at Customer Service promised me an update this coming week, so I should have more information as MB formulates a plan; and I will share that information here as soon as it becomes available.
And many thanks to amaycg for finding that MB statement and posting it here.
How is MBUSA's response to this problem acceptable to any owner who lives outside the Northeast and Midwest? Are the rest of us supposed to drive to the snow so we can test our seats for MBUSA? As you point out, sometimes people move to or vacation in cold climates. Sometimes this event happens after the car is out of warranty.
There is a chance that they are only offering fixes for people showing the issue in the immediate term while they get their arms around exactly which cars / batches of MB Tex are affected. It's hard for me to believe that they can't eventually pinpoint the defective cars and fix and/or issue a recall for these specific cars.
Actually, Mark, the TSB was issued 12/19/2014, so they must have known about this problem for quite some time. Since not a word was even mentioned about this on any online forum before that 1/4 post, I'd bet the first reports of a problem were from dealers seeing it on cars in their lots. Cold nights, warm days, bleeding seats. Some very puzzled customers must have also brought their cars in, wondering what was happening to the seats in their new cars. On my car, an August build, the seats were normal until December, even though we have had below freezing temperatures since I picked up the car on 9/22.
I think my post on 1/4 was the first online report, and I got a call from MB-USA almost immediately after posting that ... and the rep specifically referred to that post. I was also asked about damage to clothing several times, and that's one of the issues addressed by this newest MB letter. The current response is a reaction to the seat issue now being publicly exposed by online media, and is a much needed attempt to calm owners who are seeing this disfigurement of their interiors. It's my understanding that new supplies of MB-Tex are being imported from Germany and will be retrofitted to all affected vehicles.
One question I have is about the MBWorld claim that this is caused by the glue that attaches the cover to the foam. On the main page article, this claim is made ... and it goes against everything we've postulated here, as well as the MB explanation of a bad sealant. Where did that come from? Also, if the covers are glued, how will they be replaced without damaging the foam underneath?
My apologies, I totally forgot the December TSB when I was thinking about this last night. So I take back my comment on the 1 day response and amend it to 14 days. Which I guess implies that they only became proactive about the issue when your seat photos made it to the forum. Wonder at what point between those two dates did they make their decisions - and how?
At the end of the day after reading the follow-up posts since the Q&A bulletin, I'm more confused than I was before it came out. And 1 to 2 days for the fix x whatever the numbers are?? And is it glue or sealant? Will the seat foam be compromised during the fix? Unfortunately more questions than answers. My heart goes out to you guys affected by this right now 'cause I've still got about 4 or 5 months left before I pull the trigger...or not.
More info. from MBUSA regarding the conditions that may lead to the "sweating" would be helpful. I have a July '14 Alabama build, have had the car out overnight in <10 F, then into warm garage. No problems yet. Now, where is that "knock on wood" emoticon?
Actually, Mark, the TSB was issued 12/19/2014, so they must have known about this problem for quite some time. Since not a word was even mentioned about this on any online forum before that 1/4 post, I'd bet the first reports of a problem were from dealers seeing it on cars in their lots. Cold nights, warm days, bleeding seats. Some very puzzled customers must have also brought their cars in, wondering what was happening to the seats in their new cars. On my car, an August build, the seats were normal until December, even though we have had below freezing temperatures since I picked up the car on 9/22.
I think my post on 1/4 was the first online report, and I got a call from MB-USA almost immediately after posting that ... and the rep specifically referred to that post. I was also asked about damage to clothing several times, and that's one of the issues addressed by this newest MB letter. The current response is a reaction to the seat issue now being publicly exposed by online media, and is a much needed attempt to calm owners who are seeing this disfigurement of their interiors. It's my understanding that new supplies of MB-Tex are being imported from Germany and will be retrofitted to all affected vehicles.
One question I have is about the MBWorld claim that this is caused by the glue that attaches the cover to the foam. On the main page article, this claim is made ... and it goes against everything we've postulated here, as well as the MB explanation of a bad sealant. Where did that come from? Also, if the covers are glued, how will they be replaced without damaging the foam underneath?
Regarding compensation from MB ... that's a question that remains open. Even after pressing the issue, I have received no specific responses other than "we want you to have a good experience with your new car." That means MB is still dealing with that issue and has reached no decision yet. I'm sure many of the phone calls they must be getting from irate owners are raising that question and want some commitment from them. They're not going to be handing out new cars for a fixable problem ... if that's the only issue with the car. My guess is that they'll offer free service coupons or extended warranties, but no vehicle replacements except in extraordinary circumstances that reach or border on Lemon Law status.
My guy at Customer Service promised me an update this coming week, so I should have more information as MB formulates a plan; and I will share that information here as soon as it becomes available.
And many thanks to amaycg for finding that MB statement and posting it here.
Thanks StanNH. One thing is really disappointing though - vehicles in the dealer's lot will not be fixed, which I think is ridiculous since it will only harm customer satisfaction for those who waited to get into their new C's. The LI clearly states that dealers should NOT order parts for cars in dealer inventory since supply is very low.
I suppose an exchange with my dealership with a car w/ leather is (where I pay the difference) is off the table. This will only be the 3rd car I've purchased in my life and so I'm just not sure what my rights are, my options, and how dealerships try (or don't) to make customers feel whole.
The Q&A states leather is also affected so it would be futile to ask for a vehicle with leather as a replacement......
Even though no one with leather has mentioned being affected, they may have put that in there just to make sure people don't demand (or even pay for as you mentioned) a vehicle on the dealer's lot with leather as a replacement.
Thanks StanNH. One thing is really disappointing though - vehicles in the dealer's lot will not be fixed, which I think is ridiculous since it will only harm customer satisfaction for those who waited to get into their new C's. The LI clearly states that dealers should NOT order parts for cars in dealer inventory since supply is very low.
And if that's the case, if I as a customer picked out an inventory car and was then told by an honest CA that they're going to have to replace the seat covers before delivery...I'd walk. Or order if I get assurance that ALL of the known issues have been addressed.
Thanks StanNH. One thing is really disappointing though - vehicles in the dealer's lot will not be fixed, which I think is ridiculous since it will only harm customer satisfaction for those who waited to get into their new C's. The LI clearly states that dealers should NOT order parts for cars in dealer inventory since supply is very low.
I think that the December TSB was nothing more than an acknowledgement of the problem. It gave dealers a way to answer customer complaints ... yes, there is a problem and a solution is on the way ... as well as a quick fix for affected inventory.
MB has admitted that all production of C-Class cars with the MB-Tex interior are at risk ... right through January 5th, 2015. Based on all the first hand accounts that are now available to them, they must also now know that a simple washing of the material is not a fix. They may not have known that when the TSB was written. That limits their options. Either they have to develop a mix that will neutralize the sealant/plasticizer/glue that is oozing out, or re-cover every seat and replace every headrest that has ever been produced in Alabama. That's a rather daunting task and, quite frankly, one I would not want to personally have to deal with on a corporate level.
Maybe they'll send out warning labels ... DO NOT SUBJECT CAR TO TEMPERATURES BELOW 32F.
The Q&A states leather is also affected so it would be futile to ask for a vehicle with leather as a replacement......
Even though no one with leather has mentioned being affected, they may have put that in there just to make sure people don't demand (or even pay for as you mentioned) a vehicle on the dealer's lot with leather as a replacement.
Yes, I think you have nailed the precise reason for MBUSA mentioning leather in the Q & A.
They don't want W205 owners with MBTex asking for replacement cars with leather !
How is MBUSA's response to this problem acceptable to any owner who lives outside the Northeast and Midwest? Are the rest of us supposed to drive to the snow so we can test our seats for MBUSA? As you point out, sometimes people move to or vacation in cold climates. Sometimes this event happens after the car is out of warranty.
So far, MBUSA has done nothing but attempt to cover their rear ends by addressing the obvious situations as seen on this forum. But, in reality they have thousands of defective seats out there that they are betting will never see the type of weather to cause them to reveal this defect. How cynical can one company be?
This is my first MB. I had hoped for a long relationship with the C300 and the brand. I don't see that happening now. I really hope this issue stays alive in the media and grows to the point where MB pays for their cavalier response to selling defective merchandise to unsuspecting customers. A class-action suit would be ideal. Any company with integrity would either replace all MBTex interiors for the affected build period or allow customers to trade back their defective cars.
If you think I'm being overly dramatic, think about it. If this is how MBUSA is going to respond to defective seats, how much confidence should we have in them to deal appropriately with any other defect that may be lurking in the new C300? I sure hope the Alabama plant didn't install any defective airbags. Because, using MBUSA's response as a model, you would need to crash your car to prove you are one of the unlucky ones with a defective airbag.
It's amazing that anyone can view MB's response as appropriate. I don't think this thing is over for Mercedes Benz. Once some of the bigger media outlets get hold of this story and the sorry remedy MBUSA has cooked up, who knows how bad this will reflect on them. Not to mention how word-of-mouth dissatisfaction from affected owners can impact C300 sales and MB's overall reputation.
MB ruined this purchase for me and many others. They had the opportunity to rectify the situation by offering all current owners new seat covers. Instead they are going cheap and dirty. Well MBUSA, you reap what you sow.
I can hardly wait to see how this mickey mouse company responds to the bumper/taillight mass misalignments. I'm sure there will be a bulletin explaining that this obvious lack of quality control is actually within MB tolerances and that no C300 owner has been injured operating one of these vehicles, so too bad for you sucker!
2002 C240 wagon
2005 E320 wagon
2006 C280 sedan
2009 E350 sedan
2012 C300 sedan
and finally for almost exactly 24 hrs - a 2015 C300 W205 sedan.
Now I'm driving a 2015 BMW 335xi and loving it.
My first 4 Mercedes had zero problems. Zero.
The 2012 C300 (fully tricked out with 18" AMG wheels, sport package, pano roof, Command, lighting package, spoiler etc) had continual problems with Keyless Go (Keyless maybe we go maybe we don't) that I posted about on this forum and that 2 dealers and MBUSA were never able to fix. Would work fine in warm weather but not in the winter. At one point MB had put more miles on my car driving it back and forth to service appointments than I had. They had it in their shop for 3 weeks out of the month of Jan, 2013. They had a factory tech rep come out and he couldn't fix. They finally threw up their hands in defeat and refunded me the cost of the KG system and several lease payments. Other than that it was a great car with great fit and finish etc and very attractive looking IMHO. But driving base model loaners and paying for a tricked out car gets old fairly quickly.
In September I leased a 2015 C300 with a bunch of extras including heads up display, sport package, COMMAND etc - a $59k car.
My real problems started as soon as I picked it up. Even though I instructed the dealer to NOT put a front plate on the car (required in my state but the cops dont seem to care) they went ahead and did so - now I had a new car with holes in the bumper. They said they would repair the holes like they were never there (or replace bumper) so I concluded the deal. Got car home and noticed that dealer did not prep car correctly - left yellow transport wax all over the door bottoms on the inside. Taillights were uneven and didn't fit into quarter panels correctly. Got into car and got the "Key Not Detected" message. There went the blood pressure!
Called dealer and got hohum response, called MBUSA and got the same. Turns out dealer didn't synch the keys correctly.
Following day drove the car on an 70 mile round trip and during that trip the NAV system froze several times - I had my wife take a video.
Drove it to the dealer and consistently reproduced the NAV problems. Tried another car on the lot and it did the same thing! (3D or birds-eye mode and switch scale quickly - processor can't keep up and redraw the screen fast enough so the screen freezes for up to a minute or more - making it effectively useless). To their credit they killed the deal at my request and gave me a ride home (they had already "grounded" my 2012 C300 as trade-in). I think they made a killing on my car - it had only 6000 miles after 2 years and was in showroom condition!
I went out and bought a new 2015 335xi BMW with an M-Sport package, leather interior that has more interior room, all the features of the Benz and EVERYTHING WORKS without ANY ISSUES! Keyless start works first time every time in all weather, bluetooth works flawlessly, it handles like it's on rails and has 300HP and 300ft lbs of torque. Put it in sport mode and hold on! The only feature I couldn't get on the BMW is pano roof - they don't offer it. And did I mention it was less expensive than my problem riddled Benz?
So how did MB take a loyal owner/driver and turn him into someone who will probably never buy another Benz? In short they did it by dialing it in in every way they could. Dealer didn't seem to care - lots of lip service but little action. MBUSA didn't seem to care - same thing.
So now that I see recalls for the steering column and the horror show of the bleeding seats I can only thank my lucky stars that I got out of my car as quickly and easily as I did.
01-09-2015, 07:37 PM
