Newzchspy

Tune: another 50 HP ( check)
Bigger turbos: 50"HP ( check)

470 HP pretty easily ( check)

470 with AWD in the wet with 33% front bias and nearly 70% rear: check

I'm thinking pending instrumented tests: 12.8 at 110 stock; tune and turbos, 11.8 at 118-120: check ; no muss no fuss launch, check. Handling on par with C63 with minor under steer due to AWD: check

It's a no brainier for most buyers and the potential is surely there. Great minds Jim can beg to differ!!

PeterUbers

And when you blow your motor... The owner of the tuned c450 pays out the a$$ (and most buying this car won't be able to afford those repair dollars)

Stock c63S with full warranty: check

Just sayin

Tjdehya

lol, the cost of those mods will put you past the price of a C63, void your warranty, and probably decrease the life expectancy of the engine/transmission.

dreamerak

Clearly larger rotor and caliper C450 AMG. C400 on top C450 on bottom

dtc100

No one will believe your C450 is an AMG, with or without bigger rotors and calipers, when there is not an AMG badge on the back.

Maybe some of you should petition MB to add that AMG badge, put money where the mouth is.

Otherwise it will make some of you look bad, when you try to tell people you have a real AMG, and people don't see that badge in the right place.

K-A

Interesting! I found the handling almost disjointed or maybe simply "bland" and sedately soft in the W205's I've driven so far (just a lack of balance and gets near sloppy if you start really pushing it.... clearly the car isn't intended for that kind of driving). Great economically slanted luxury cars but the whole chassis just seemed far off of a dynamically sporty drive. This car interests me as I think AMG would be the answer to finding the sporty geometry within said chassis. I'll be driving it for sure. Diluting the AMG element is a sad reality but such is where M-B and BMW are headed. Audi, not so sure as they're still a lot smaller in the States so their hierarchy cars can remain more exotic a lot easier.

Not sure if this is the AMG 7 Speed DCT or the old 7G Tronic, but I REALLY hope the former, the latter doesn't make much sense in that why wouldn't they give it the 9G. And I've never been a fan of M-B's "Tronic" transmissions, starting with the 7 Speed, personally. Though they seemed to like this variation. Seems they liked the steering and power curve which are very important (power curve much more so than peak HP which is really meaningless in comparison in real world driving)

Suspension wise; I'm hesitant as to harshness levels on U.S roads. Newer M-B's in some cases have had very large criticisms of rough rides thus rattles, etc., which are on the soft-handling "normal" versions at that. This one I await to see if they can keep things smooth even with the better handling, as Audi does quite well.

If it was something I drove I'd wish there was a bit more RWD bias to the AWD system (though 33/67 is pretty solid), such as Porsche's which is 20/80, since I'm a fan of a RWD feel with the AWD coming into play as a "icing on the cake" extra protective and/or capability measure. And the article states that the distribution is "fixed" at 33/67, which I assume means it can't readjust torque to wheels as necessary. Porsche's also can distribute torque to any corner that the computer finds necessary, so in various conditions you'll see the AWD distribution chart change if you have it pulled up on the screen.

I'm not big on M-B's 4Matic as it feels simply "4 wheel drive" rather than "performance AWD" and BMW's XDrive I feel the same way about ("4 wheel drive" rather than "performance AWD") so AMG's 4Matic is something I didn't know about and it sounds very interesting, I can't wait to try it.

dreamerak

It's not my AMG, it's Mercedes AMG, Tobias Moers calls it a C450 AMG in the Mercedes press release linked below, C450 AMG is used through out the document. I didn't name it, and have no control over Mercedes AMG. I am simply calling it what they call it. If you have a problem the the name, I suggest you contact MB.

The press Release also details the AMG technology, some of it from the C63s AMG, that goes into the C450 AMG.

Here is a quote for you:

"A host of suspension components were adopted from the top of the line V8 model"

I really wish People would read the press release, and stop blathering on about "it's just a tune and badge on a C400."


http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...ATIC-FINAL.pdf

K-A

As for looks, I personally do not like that front. First thing I thought was CLA, the "bling grill" looks cheap, plasticy and pretty gaudy to me. It's just a rough and cluttered look in my own opinion. That's ultimately what happens when one enters massive dilution.

The sporty aesthetic attempt I find a little awkward with the W205, namely at some angles, such as the rear, as the design being a scaled down S Class is fully a luxury look mated to its more compact proportions. I find it looks most graceful and dynamic in its C400 style trim (with the "AMG Sport" Package yet not too crazy in deviating from the designs original intent).

Blacking out the window trim is an interesting touch as M-B have declined to follow that trend for.... well, up until now. I knew it was just a matter of time. Doesn't work too well on an M-B which feels more at home with aluminum or chrome, as opposed to BMW, etc. who work better with a sporty "blackout trim" imo.

I drove an Audi S3 recently which was an absolute joy. Overall, I'm really eager to see what some AMG tuning will do to this. Though I really dislike how diluted the AMG brand will now get as it gets officially branded to "normal" M-B's (EDIT: Realized per above that it at least won't have the badge on the trunk.... DOUBLE EDIT: Realize that it is on the fender though), or "halfway normal" I guess. Will make the real things seem a little less special, imo.

coladin

You lament about the dilution of the brands...yet you have a Macan

jrcart

Ya, so your're only about 100hp off from a tuned CLA. The Wesitec CLA is putting down 450 at the wheels, not the crank and it weighs nearly 300 pounds less. Furthermore, the mods you just named off will set you back $20,000k (mainly a turbo and downpipe upgrade big bucks), which will put you at more $$ than you would have spent on a real AMG C63 and you will still have less power after all those mods on the C450.

you are not making sense bro

dave-t

[QUOTE=bartola;6344437]The "AMG badge on the fender", ruffles the feathers of "some" AMG purist that paid through the nose for the badge. In the end, AMG technology trickles down to prod vehicles, that has been the case with BMW for years. Point of fact the E36 M3 suspension is close to what you see on E46 prod vehicles. It is evolution technology in cars. Mercedes cars have evolved and will keep doing so and trickle down to production cars.

Not true keep in mind an AMG has a one man hand build engine and suspension. The AMG package coming out is a fender badge with AMG esthetics but not the engine or suspension or transmission which is a upgraded sport version (AMG 4Matic is different, stronger rear bias ). This is a way to compete with the "S" package for Audi (Audi S5 is not a RS5) same thing with the M sport package on a BMW which is not the same as a BMW M3.

Newzchspy

[QUOTE=dave-t;6350762]
But with a tune on the M235 is every bit as quick as the M3/4 ......

# m3ownedbytunedM235 #m3ownerallbutthurt

jrcart

That is pretty funny...isnt that thing like a VW Tiguan with Porsche badges? He did bring up a few good points but then contridicted himself as well.

K-A

That's false. And Porsche on its own probably sells less cars than the C Class line in itself. I don't see any resemblance here. MB is releasing dilution heavy products at a days pace compared to what said Macan would generate in Porsche terms, it seems.

dreamerak

Exactly what i was thinking....

K-A

A car that will be made at 50-60K units a year worldwide and has a waiting list of demand outstripping supply, provided a very concise and purposeful reason within the boutique Porsche lineup, and has set the bar as being the most revolutionarily dynamic and sporty driving, sport sedan esque "SUV" is "dilution"? Dilution is saturating a brand with redundancies, confusing customers. This is the opposite, imo. It's intended and built to a very focused specification. Especially with the right options; It's the sportiest and most 911-esque driving Porsche 4 door out, for one, and most at home on a track compared to its 4 door siblings. And that's before the GTS and Turbo S models come out.

This isn't a car sitting on lots and getting 20% discounts leases like it's free donuts day. That's what dilution is. This is being literally bought at or over MSRP, still.

Dunno why the Macan gets brought up into this, anyway. Nothing I posted about the C450 really was relevant to it.

coladin

Get used to it.

dtc100

Have you taken your Macan to the track?

By putting the Macan in the same sentence with 911, just shows how successfully Porsche has brainwashed people into thinking an SUV can actually drive like a sport car.

K-A

I'm not sure if some here understand what "dilution" within the spectrum of cars means.

Releasing a new car that serves a concerted purpose and niche isn't dilution. A class leading, innovative and/or revolutionary genre creating car that answers many wishes and questions isn't dilution. Unless it falls on its face and then they keep flinging its poo to the wall (hello BMW GT's).

Dilution is releasing do many pointless models namely on the downside that confuse and step all over each other. Or growing simply for the sake of growth rather than purpose is dilution. Renting cars out and over supplying to where they sit on lots until discounts reach 20+% on even new body models then continuing to add to the pot is dilution.

The CLA getting such lousy CR reviews that it dragged MB's overall score down toward the bottom of the entire industry is bad dilution.

I actually think the C450 serves a purpose. But it definitely dilutes AMG and its cachet and special factor and I understand why owners would be pissed.

dtc100

Someone who relies on CR for guidance on what car to drive, should be driving a Camry or Accord.

K-A

Actually it shows just how well Porsche can make it feel like a sports car (with Air Suspension and PASM, namely). It is what it is, no arguing that, but good engineers don't exactly allow traditional metrics to disallow them to try to innovate new capabilities.

I tracked one like mine back to back with a 911 C4S and Cayman GTS, Boxster GTS, and Panamera GTS.

Of course, it's no 911, but it's the best 4 door impersonator out there. Countless reviews have touted its a "large 4 door 911 or Cayman on stilts", that doesn't mean it drive anything like a 911 in specific terms, as they're completely different physical beings, but it does a remarkable job of bringing that DNA to a larger, 4 door vehicle that has "SUV" versatility. Reviews continuously rave of its abilities. It even fared pretty well against an M3 in a sport focused test that didn't take into account all of its inherent otherwise advantages.

It's pretty amazing on a track, considering its inherent basis. Pulls a better lateral G than a 328i M Sport as well (which is the best handling 3 outside of the M). PDK, Porsche's V6 TT, the sound, the AS/PASM ability to allow it a flat and sports-car-esque suspension dynamic, etc. are really firsts and cater to a specific desire, imo.

Several owners who are long time racers and P Car owners have track testimonials in Macan S's that hung with or passed crappy drivers in full blown exotic sports cars. This just goes to show that it carries Porsche's track savvy to where a great driver can hilariously surprise many disgruntled sports car owners. Guys in 996 GT3's saying how those Macan S's were neck and neck with them going ***** out. It's quite a feat.

Here's a video of an S (not even a Turbo) with a 911 CS (RWD).


Agreed. But I think they're spot on about the CLA.

Anyway, I'm not gonna engage in Macan convo anymore. My C450 post had no relevance to it aside from the AWD bias thing. Not sure why it got brought up pertaining to something that doesn't pertain to it at all. It's an exceptional vehicle, and I think the C450 will be too, actually. I haven't been this excited to check out an M-B in a very long time.

jrcart

Enough Macan talk, let's get back on topic and keep slamming the C450 lol

K-A

That's what I already said in closing my post, lol.

But I actually like the idea of the C450. I just dunno how I feel about marketing it as AMG. On one hand, it has all the AMG bits aside from the engine. On the other, AMG touts its "One Man, One Engine" hallmark. It's perplexing.

I find that BMW and now Mercedes are starting to take their halo M and AMG divisions less seriously in terms of protecting the products themselves, and more seriously in terms of using them as tools to push the mass volume models ("halo cars"). Sort of like test beds, as was mentioned above.

My BMW was an "M Sport" and had no less than maybe 11 M badges all over it. 11! Not on the deckled, but at that point, who cares. They use the M brand as a marketing tool. Yes, M cars are still built to the high standards (though arguably more capable yet somehow less exciting and impressive than previous more pure ones) but it's clear that they're there to provide a halo effect to push normal models that can make people feel like they're getting something near the "real thing" for a smaller price. Who this hurts is guys who really want M cars as the cachet isn't there.

Yes, it's about performance. BUT, if you don't think that you're paying a HUGE premium for the cachet of that M or AMG badge, and that moniker, to be a part of that exclusive club, then you're naive. You do, and if they make it more saturated and less special, then you're actually getting less for your money. This goes for diluting any special product. M-B, BMW, AMG, M, Porsche, Apple, whoever, it's all the same concept.

With the C450, for once you actually get some chops with the "AMG moniker". Instead of "AMG Sport Package" which is nothing more than literal aesthetic marketing to entice you. But this time, they actually call it an "AMG", and badge it in a new place. Win for some, lose for others. It's clear which market is more important to the newfound "growth at all costs", more mass consumerism driven, less bespoke enthusiast centric, more boardroom-oriented German car companies.

dtc100

Yeah he is here to **** off all MB owners, whether we agree with the C450 AMG concept or not.

He considers all CLA45s crap, by extension GLA45s too. What he will not tell you is, CLA45 meets or beats Macan S in performance tests, the standard Macan Turbo can't even touch GLA45.

I also don't get what he was saying about C450. It is an excellent new model, even though it will dilute the brand?

C450 itself will not dilute the MB brand, it replaces C400. But when people insist C450 is a true AMG, they are diluting the AMG name, that to me is not even debatable.

K-A

I consider the CLA crap, and the GLA literally visually offensive, but the CLA45 is an excellent performer and performance car and I respect what AMG does with M-B's cars nowadays, a lot. Yet, performance is but just one metric to cars.

M-B has been diluted in many ways, nothing new, but the C450 isn't diluting M-B in itself, rather it's diluting AMG's brand or AMG itself as we see infighting here as to whether it's an actual AMG or not.

I actually haven't said that I think the concept of the C450 is bad. Where did I say that? I'm being pretty easy on it compared to many. I think it's more exciting and necessary than an M-B in recent memory, I love the idea of it, I just am uncertain about how it looks in relation to AMG and the normal models, and how it's badged as an AMG.