jrcart

I don't have a problem with Porsche selling SUV or crossovers, so long as they don't come out with a model the call the Macan GT3 RS....that would be a sellout move. I never had a problem with AMG selling the CLA45, there is a place for it and a demographic for it and it is a truly amazing engine. Fact, the CLA45 had highest output per liter(177 hp per liter) than any previous AMG ever built at the time of its release. My SLS Black Series is the highest HP AMG ever built and in stock form it only made about 103hp per liter. So by all means the CLA45 is a true AMG. With all the new EPA mpg mandates coming we are going to see engine displacement get smaller so companies like AMG need to do their R&D on these smaller engines. The problem with the C450 is there is no need to have that vehicle in any AMG line up. MB offers a C250, C300, C400 and C63, every niche is filled. If they feel the need to bump up the output on the C400 and call it a C450, then call it a C450 not a C450 AMG Sport.

dtc100

Macan to me looked like a Cayenne having the rear 1/3 sliced off at the top, another off the shelf design style wise, and a sign of cost cutting.

GLA45 can be as offensive looking as it may be to you, but you can't say it is a copycat.

K-A

Lol. I hate to hear what you think about the CLA vs CLS then, or nearly identical C vs S designs then, or incoming E vs C and S then, or BMW, or Audi, or nearly every other car company that's doing same-sausage/different lengths. Porsche have always had a strong and obsessively evolutionary family tie. The Macan looks like a Cayenne no more or less than any other family resemblance automobile. See them together and the Cayenne is like a box and more bland/nondescript actually. At least there are only 2 of them and not dozens upon dozens that all share a design language. To me, the Macan looks more like a 911 on stilts, steroids and a fat suit.... in fact, all Porsche's follow that design approach and bring it into whatever architectural genre they go into.

It's impressive, indeed, but I for one don't find the "most HP per liter" thing a good thing ASIDE from it being impressive from an engineering perspective. The amount of high-stress a motor has to be to churn out that power efficiency has to be staggering, I'd imagine, especially for long term and durability usage. I always like the idea of having some reserve built into the motor when it comes to HP/Liter.

jrcart

Like it or not that is the direction everything is headed, smaller displacement higher reving engines....smaller displacement and hybrids are the wave of the future. If 15 years ago when the Toyota Prius was introduced someone would have told me that in 2015 the three fastest production cars in the world would be hybrids I would have laughed in their face. The reality is that the three fastest supercars in the world today are the LeFerrari, the P1 and the 918.....all hybrids. I am not going to argue with you, I myself enjoy large displacement NA and FI motors too, but the reality is the governemt EPA mandates are forcing the hand of the manufacturers. In just a coupe short years we have seen AMG's premier powerplants go from 6.2L to 5.5L to 4.0L.

Mr Enigma

An aside: Do you see AMG releasing a Hybrid performance car anytime in the near future? Perhaps future AMGs with come with a hybrid powerplant as standard... Interesting thought.

jrcart

AMG is currently working on an awd, mid engine hyrbid supercar. They already offer the electric drive SLS, which was produced in very limited number last year. It was an all electric version of the SLS and it was FAST!

coladin

One only needs to look at how the F1 program has altered the landscape of Mercedes and AMG cars. Hybrids I think in an AMG platform will absolutely happen.

Mr Enigma

I actually remember watching this episode of Top Gear but clearly forgot about the SLS.

However I was thinking more along the lines of future AMGs, lets say in 10 years time, that have a "drop in" (I use this term loosely because it will never be that easy) hybrid powerplant that will be used across a few model ranges.

===

My thoughts too coladin.

jrcart

In less than 4 years you will see a mid engine, awd hyrbid supercar from AMG, it is currently in development.

Newzchspy

Damn Jim, those lil AMG stickers on the front fenders got your shorts in a twist?? You had me yesterday at funny hashtags, BUT this ^^^^. Come on, we know its not an AMG, BUT I think its a great marketing move.

Fixed that ^^^^ for you >>>>: " In just a coupe short years we have seen AMG's premier powerplants and AMG Sport powerplants go from 6.2L to 5.5L to 4.0L to 3.0 V6 TT."

jrcart

I guess some people just set the bar lower than others.....

Newzchspy

You're too funny. Why doesn't anyone ever pick UP at your office? All I get is VM and I tried to give you a shout out to aggravate you a bit??

Cheers!!

whoLEEoh

i hate that grille on the car...and i bet the seats are like a 5k dollar upgrade lol

Newzchspy

If past history is any indication, figure about $2 K (but of course they will package it with something else).....

as to performance of the C400 v. C450 AMG SPORT v. CLA45 AMG , here's what CD had for the C400 and CLA45 AMG and what I EXPECT the C450 will do:
C400
C/D TEST RESULTS: (actual test results from CD):
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.6 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 20.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 136 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 160 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g


C450 AMG SPORT
Anticipated TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.4
Zero to 100 mph: 10.6
Zero to 130 mph: 18.9
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.0
Standing ¼-mile: 12.8 sec @ 110.00
Top speed (governor limited): 155.00
Braking, 70-0 mph: 150 ft.
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.92 g

CLA45 AMG ( actual test results from CD):
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.6 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 15.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.7 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.8 sec @ 110 mph
Top speed (gear limited): 158 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 152 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.94 g

jrcart

Lol, do you think I actually go into the office? I'm there about three hours a week. If nobody is picking up that's another story, what time did you call, I will crack some skulls if they are not picking up the phones.

Newzchspy

I called about 2:00 PM Wed and it rang and rang. Was hoping to give you some sh$& about the C450!!!

It's all good, the C450 will be out soon and we'll all be happy. I'll debadge mind to make you happy!!

coladin

No way the 450 is chopping .5 in the quarter. I'm thinking 13.1@108

TopGun32

performance wise.. it will dip into the 12's due to the gear box updates and torque split.

I still want to know how much boost they actually increased over standard C400.

We measured 9lbs in stock form.

I'm running just over 14lbs with no issues.

I'm thinking they increased maybe 2lbs over stock.. making it 11lbs full boost.

These cars.. full boost is at mid range power band and tapers off closer to red line.

JB4 by Terry should be available now to order.. i would highly recommend it to C300/C400 owners.
Takes literall 5 or 6 connections and you have yourself a lot more power and easy to remove.

PeterUbers

How much can this engine handle in terms of power?

dtc100

Don't change the subject, I was very specific about responding to your comment about the GLA45 being hideous looking.

You can have concern about a small engine with too much boost, but can't deny the bragging right of having "the most powerful 2.0L production engine IN THE WORLD".

The above perfectly shows the difference in mindset between a Macan driver and a GLA45 driver.

Below is the latest head to head between Macan Turbo and GLA45 by MT which further demonstrates the point.

I'd argue the C450 AMG concept moves away from such unique AMG pursuit.

coladin

What is interesting is the rolling start between the C400 and CLA45...

JYO

I'd agree the C450 dilutes the AMG brand further and this has been slowly brewing for sometime starting with MB putting AMG body styling and wheels on non-AMG cars. Not sure is this all started after MB bought all of AMG or before.

At least in this instance (C450) they are backing it up with some performance increase.......but still.

Newzchspy

I don't want to derail this glorious thread, BUT @topgun32 , what kind of gains did you get on your C400 from the tune alone?? I am fully expecting in the 400s with the C450 a good tune and some turbo work as well.

TopGun32

just like 5.5 or 4.7 TT engines.. its just a tune that makes the difference between normal output and higher output. the PP option also includes brakes, suspension and cosmetic options which are worth while IMHO.

The 3L is just the same with C400 and C450.. both will top out at same pont. I have checked the C400 in detail.. having owned a C32 and E55.. i usually go to the type of exhaust, intercooler, intake, and see where there are potential for improvements.

I have scanned through the C450 material and even to the compare the exhuast from C400 to C450.. Exact same set up... both are NOT true dual exhaust. The C450 might use different center mufflers or rear mulfflers to allow less restriction.. but a set up POV they are same.

From intake and intercooler, down to charge pipe.. The same. We know that they use the same turbos. no change there.

At this point I estimate the C400 come with 320 AWHP and 340AWTQ.

adding 50% more boost.. should put this thing in 360AWHP+ and 380AWTQ quite easily. Very conservative.

C400 in stock for.. is faster than my stock C32 and in tune mod is faster than my tuned C32.

Others have already tuned the C400 and claim over 400 hp crank with just a tune.

K-A

Yes, that review deminstrates how the Macan and GLA couldn't be any different. And even he can't help admit through trying to be PC that the GLA looks like a bad joke. The Macan is up for the benchmark WorldCar "Best Car Design Of The Year" against..... The W205!

HP/L means very little to me. And the torque curve and real world low end linearity isn't as smooth on the AMG 4 cylinder engines from what I've heard (similar comment on the S3 which I loved and drove, but still has a 4 cylinder element to takeoff and attempted smooth city driving that it can't shake).