Car and Driver: C450 AMG 4MATIC First Drive
03-05-2015, 11:28 PM
#101
just like 5.5 or 4.7 TT engines.. its just a tune that makes the difference between normal output and higher output. the PP option also includes brakes, suspension and cosmetic options which are worth while IMHO.
The 3L is just the same with C400 and C450.. both will top out at same pont. I have checked the C400 in detail.. having owned a C32 and E55.. i usually go to the type of exhaust, intercooler, intake, and see where there are potential for improvements.
I have scanned through the C450 material and even to the compare the exhuast from C400 to C450.. Exact same set up... both are NOT true dual exhaust. The C450 might use different center mufflers or rear mulfflers to allow less restriction.. but a set up POV they are same.
From intake and intercooler, down to charge pipe.. The same. We know that they use the same turbos. no change there.
At this point I estimate the C400 come with 320 AWHP and 340AWTQ.
adding 50% more boost.. should put this thing in 360AWHP+ and 380AWTQ quite easily. Very conservative.
C400 in stock for.. is faster than my stock C32 and in tune mod is faster than my tuned C32.
Others have already tuned the C400 and claim over 400 hp crank with just a tune.
The 3L is just the same with C400 and C450.. both will top out at same pont. I have checked the C400 in detail.. having owned a C32 and E55.. i usually go to the type of exhaust, intercooler, intake, and see where there are potential for improvements.
I have scanned through the C450 material and even to the compare the exhuast from C400 to C450.. Exact same set up... both are NOT true dual exhaust. The C450 might use different center mufflers or rear mulfflers to allow less restriction.. but a set up POV they are same.
From intake and intercooler, down to charge pipe.. The same. We know that they use the same turbos. no change there.
At this point I estimate the C400 come with 320 AWHP and 340AWTQ.
adding 50% more boost.. should put this thing in 360AWHP+ and 380AWTQ quite easily. Very conservative.
C400 in stock for.. is faster than my stock C32 and in tune mod is faster than my tuned C32.
Others have already tuned the C400 and claim over 400 hp crank with just a tune.
This is all good news for me as a former owner of a pretty quick C32....
Knowing what I know, I can't imagine the C450 NOT doing at least a 12.8 qtr stock at 109-110. Add a tune and you're in the low 12s at 115. Some shorties and turbo mods, your in the 11s on a comfortable, nice riding street car. I can surely see Weistec getting a hold of this too and doing some major mods. The 3.0 is a solid 6 and it's got more potential than the 4 ,
03-05-2015, 11:50 PM
#102
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
This is all good news for me as a former owner of a pretty quick C32....
Knowing what I know, I can't imagine the C450 NOT doing at least a 12.8 qtr stock at 109-110. Add a tune and you're in the low 12s at 115. Some shorties and turbo mods, your in the 11s on a comfortable, nice riding street car. I can surely see Weistec getting a hold of this too and doing some major mods. The 3.0 is a solid 6 and it's got more potential than the 4 ,
Knowing what I know, I can't imagine the C450 NOT doing at least a 12.8 qtr stock at 109-110. Add a tune and you're in the low 12s at 115. Some shorties and turbo mods, your in the 11s on a comfortable, nice riding street car. I can surely see Weistec getting a hold of this too and doing some major mods. The 3.0 is a solid 6 and it's got more potential than the 4 ,
It'd be fun, and I get your point, don't get me wrong, but wouldn't a C63 be the choice if one considers going through those lengths?
I predict the C450 might cramp the C63's style enough to where they'll eventually get more massive discounts than we've already seen from MB. Nevermind the crazy inevitable discounts that the C450 will probably get since the MSRP will surely go past $60's easily which is still a tough pill for the market to validate (hence the record rapid discount rate on W205's immediately already). Unless they build them in relatively small numbers (either the 63 or 450).
I think the C450 is gonna be the perfect choice for someone who finds the C300/C400 way too soft and the C63 too intensely hyper and sport focused therefore too much money for a C for what they want from it (even factoring in said discounts). Taking the vertical limitations to my situation out of the equation; the C450 sounds like that down the middle balance that should make it the most enticing Benz for me, were I in its market.
03-06-2015, 01:01 AM
#103
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLA45 AMG
Yes, that review deminstrates how the Macan and GLA couldn't be any different. And even he can't help admit through trying to be PC that the GLA looks like a bad joke. 
The Macan is up for the benchmark WorldCar "Best Car Design Of The Year" against..... The W205!
HP/L means very little to me. And the torque curve and real world low end linearity isn't as smooth on the AMG 4 cylinder engines from what I've heard (similar comment on the S3 which I loved and drove, but still has a 4 cylinder element to takeoff and attempted smooth city driving that it can't shake).
The Macan is up for the benchmark WorldCar "Best Car Design Of The Year" against..... The W205!HP/L means very little to me. And the torque curve and real world low end linearity isn't as smooth on the AMG 4 cylinder engines from what I've heard (similar comment on the S3 which I loved and drove, but still has a 4 cylinder element to takeoff and attempted smooth city driving that it can't shake).
Of course what we discussed are all subjective.
One thing cannot be denied, the GLA45 at $20K less, matches a Porsche equivalent with the all mighty "turbo" badge on the back in all performance measures, is embarrassing for Porsche.
If Porsche can simply shrug off such outcome, which they apparently do, judging by the Macan sales numbers, it only underscores what many Porsche buyers have become-very different than the traditional Porsche drivers.
And that alone, supports the earlier notion that Macan is diluting the traditional Porsche name. Maybe all for good, just like the C450. Here again the opinions are subjective.
03-06-2015, 01:16 AM
#104
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I drove an S3 also. It was refined and boring. Can't wait to get back in the CLA45 after the S3 drive, and fill up my senses again.
Of course what we discussed are all subjective.
One thing cannot be denied, the GLA45 at $20K less, matches a Porsche equivalent with the all mighty "turbo" badge on the back in all performance measures, is embarrassing for Porsche.
If Porsche can simply shrug off such outcome, which they apparently do, judging by the Macan sales numbers, it only underscores what many Porsche buyers have become-very different than the traditional Porsche drivers.
And that alone, supports the earlier notion that Macan is diluting the traditional Porsche name. Maybe all for good, just like the C450. Here again the opinions are subjective.
Of course what we discussed are all subjective.
One thing cannot be denied, the GLA45 at $20K less, matches a Porsche equivalent with the all mighty "turbo" badge on the back in all performance measures, is embarrassing for Porsche.
If Porsche can simply shrug off such outcome, which they apparently do, judging by the Macan sales numbers, it only underscores what many Porsche buyers have become-very different than the traditional Porsche drivers.
And that alone, supports the earlier notion that Macan is diluting the traditional Porsche name. Maybe all for good, just like the C450. Here again the opinions are subjective.
The test also makes no sense as to how they're opposite style cars. Just like it makes weird sense how he loathed the CLA45 and said he'd rather have the Subaru, but loves the GLA.
That test would probably pick a Go Kart. If you want performance for the dollar, then a Mustang GT wins. But that's only one small metric of a car.
Porsche's aren't about simply straight line speed or doing just one or two things well. Though I do agree the Macan Turbo should have a much bigger HP advantage over the S. They're not far apart at all really. But the Macan is said to be too precise and capable yet refined for what it is, a'la "driving simulator". 911's and Cayman's get the same "criticism" from reviewers looking for juvenile jaunts. That's simply the Porsche way and how they earn price premiums. It's a mistake to think any Porsche is meant to be only one thing. The Macan doesn't want to feel like what he liked the GLA for, at all.
Last edited by K-A; 03-06-2015 at 01:28 AM.
03-06-2015, 01:43 AM
#105
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLA45 AMG
I know you enjoy sugar coating your Macan, but please read carefully.
The GLA45 matched Macan Turbo in straight lines and beat it at the corners. It is mind boggling the Macan Turbo is 900 lbs heavier.
That is the result of cost cutting. Weight reduction is not easy, lightweight materials cost more. That's embarrassing.
I drove a first production GLA45, the ride was compliant and the interior is upscale as long as you don't take the base trim. Yes it is a bit boy racer, those who gravitate to Macan will not give the GLA45 a second look.
But make no mistake the Macan is not the glorious masterpiece you try to convince everyone.
The GLA45 matched Macan Turbo in straight lines and beat it at the corners. It is mind boggling the Macan Turbo is 900 lbs heavier.
That is the result of cost cutting. Weight reduction is not easy, lightweight materials cost more. That's embarrassing.
I drove a first production GLA45, the ride was compliant and the interior is upscale as long as you don't take the base trim. Yes it is a bit boy racer, those who gravitate to Macan will not give the GLA45 a second look.
But make no mistake the Macan is not the glorious masterpiece you try to convince everyone.
03-06-2015, 02:49 AM
#106
Member
Thread Starter
Back on topic, the most impressive aspect of the C450 AMG will be the handeling. Imo
From the C&D article:
"Equally impressive is the C450 AMG’s chassis, which received quite a workout on the lumpy, twisting ribbons of asphalt that snake through southern Portugal’s Algarve region. The car rides on a uniquely developed multilink suspension with three-stage electronically adjustable dampers that come straight out of the C63. Whether bombing down smooth, high-speed straights or making quick left-right-left transitions on broken asphalt, the chassis loyally transmits the road’s texture at all four contact patches. Steering response is immediate, with satisfyingly linear buildup of effort and copious feedback tickling the driver’s fingertips. Even on long, winding descents, the brakes (with rotors measuring a robust 14.2 inches up front and 12.5 inches out back) always seemed to have enough power in reserve, with excellent pedal feedback. If there’s a bone to pick, it’s that the stiffest of the three-stage adjustable shock settings can be too brittle.
Almost All the AMG, All the Time
The C450 AMG looks almost exactly like the C63 and has a nearly identical interior, including the must-have optional one-piece racing-style seats. Indeed, from aesthetic and driving-comfort perspectives, at no point did we wish we were in the C63. Plus, as the C450 weighs some 200 pounds less than the C63, it drives smaller and feels nimbler, lending the midlevel car its own charm. One might see it as the spiritual successor to the 2002–2004 C32 AMG, which, when we last tested one, started at $52,120, or roughly where the C450 AMG 4MATIC is likely to fall without considering inflation. And the 349-hp C32 was slower, too.
So the eminently satisfying C450 AMG packs enough performance to be a full-blooded AMG model just a decade ago, and today it offers something like 75 to 80 percent of an Affalterbach special. Which is to say that it’s damn good."
From the C&D article:
"Equally impressive is the C450 AMG’s chassis, which received quite a workout on the lumpy, twisting ribbons of asphalt that snake through southern Portugal’s Algarve region. The car rides on a uniquely developed multilink suspension with three-stage electronically adjustable dampers that come straight out of the C63. Whether bombing down smooth, high-speed straights or making quick left-right-left transitions on broken asphalt, the chassis loyally transmits the road’s texture at all four contact patches. Steering response is immediate, with satisfyingly linear buildup of effort and copious feedback tickling the driver’s fingertips. Even on long, winding descents, the brakes (with rotors measuring a robust 14.2 inches up front and 12.5 inches out back) always seemed to have enough power in reserve, with excellent pedal feedback. If there’s a bone to pick, it’s that the stiffest of the three-stage adjustable shock settings can be too brittle.
Almost All the AMG, All the Time
The C450 AMG looks almost exactly like the C63 and has a nearly identical interior, including the must-have optional one-piece racing-style seats. Indeed, from aesthetic and driving-comfort perspectives, at no point did we wish we were in the C63. Plus, as the C450 weighs some 200 pounds less than the C63, it drives smaller and feels nimbler, lending the midlevel car its own charm. One might see it as the spiritual successor to the 2002–2004 C32 AMG, which, when we last tested one, started at $52,120, or roughly where the C450 AMG 4MATIC is likely to fall without considering inflation. And the 349-hp C32 was slower, too.
So the eminently satisfying C450 AMG packs enough performance to be a full-blooded AMG model just a decade ago, and today it offers something like 75 to 80 percent of an Affalterbach special. Which is to say that it’s damn good."
03-06-2015, 03:46 AM
#107
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I know you enjoy sugar coating your Macan, but please read carefully.
The GLA45 matched Macan Turbo in straight lines and beat it at the corners. It is mind boggling the Macan Turbo is 900 lbs heavier.
That is the result of cost cutting. Weight reduction is not easy, lightweight materials cost more. That's embarrassing.
I drove a first production GLA45, the ride was compliant and the interior is upscale as long as you don't take the base trim. Yes it is a bit boy racer, those who gravitate to Macan will not give the GLA45 a second look.
But make no mistake the Macan is not the glorious masterpiece you try to convince everyone.
The GLA45 matched Macan Turbo in straight lines and beat it at the corners. It is mind boggling the Macan Turbo is 900 lbs heavier.
That is the result of cost cutting. Weight reduction is not easy, lightweight materials cost more. That's embarrassing.
I drove a first production GLA45, the ride was compliant and the interior is upscale as long as you don't take the base trim. Yes it is a bit boy racer, those who gravitate to Macan will not give the GLA45 a second look.
But make no mistake the Macan is not the glorious masterpiece you try to convince everyone.
It weighs as much more than the GLA in the same context as how it is more high quality, substantial, coddling, luxurious, and premium over the GLA. It's bigger, higher, etc. The GLA is a lifted economy car at its core, it should be significantly lighter.
Read this carefully as well: The Macan is not supposed to be anything near a GLA in any trim. The fact that a Turbo can hang neck and neck with a genuine boy racer seeking GLA45 and not convey nearly any of the compromises that the GLA does, is impressive to Macan buyers. This is a total difference in perception.
"Cost cutting"? Every car is "cost cut" to some degrees, the Macan is pretty sans cost cutting if you ask me, considering how many things it does so well and how it drives like a bonafide tried and true Porsche at a bargain price. I don't think anyone who digs a GLA or CLA want to bring up "cost cutting" as they are sole creators of bean counters. AMG made them bonafide performance cars.
That review was the most subjective nonsense. How can he hate a CLA with such a passion yet love the GLA so much? Aren't they supposed to be almost identical? I'd imagine the CLA is even sportier.
Put it this way: The C450 will be a better competitor to a Macan than a GLA is. And even then, two TOTALLY different cars with different strengths.
The "faster and less money means it's better" is an argument for Mustang/Camaro or "Club si" forums, certainly not pertaining to any Mercedes. The GLA/CLA come close because of all the quality and luxury sacrifices they employ. Cars cost more for many reasons. You can get a Stingray for less and wipe the floor with the GLA45 in every performance metric or visceral engagement. Or a CTS Vsport and get more luxury and comparable straight line performance.
Last edited by K-A; 03-06-2015 at 03:59 AM.
03-06-2015, 03:56 AM
#108
Member
Thread Starter
Lol. You clearly have no idea about the Macan. It comes in at 4,112 lbs in base trim. That is very light for its segment and size. It's lighter than an A7, lighter than an M5, lighter than a Maserati GT, and not much heavier than some loaded small sedans, etc. I don't know what you expect from a small "SUV", which the GLA is NOT (it's a lifted up Economy Taxi Hot Hatch in ROW, i.e A Class). Loaded to the gills, yes it'll pack on more lbs, as will any car
It weighs as much more than the GLA in the same context as how it is more high quality, substantial, coddling, luxurious, and premium over the GLA. It's bigger, higher, etc. The GLA is a lifted economy car at its core, it should be significantly lighter.
Read this carefully as well: The Macan is not supposed to be anything near a GLA in any trim. The fact that a Turbo can hang neck and neck with a genuine boy racer seeking GLA45 and not convey nearly any of the compromises that the GLA does, is impressive to Macan buyers. This is a total difference in perception.
"Cost cutting"? Every car is "cost cut" to some degrees, the Macan is pretty sans cost cutting if you ask me, considering how many things it does so well and how it drives like a bonafide tried and true Porsche at a bargain price. I don't think anyone who digs a GLA or CLA want to bring up "cost cutting" as they are sole creators of bean counters. AMG made them bonafide performance cars.
That review was the most subjective nonsense. How can he hate a CLA with such a passion yet love the GLA so much? Aren't they supposed to be almost identical? I'd imagine the CLA is even sportier.
Put it this way: The C450 will be a better competitor to a Macan than a GLA is. And even then, two TOTALLY different cars with different strengths.
It weighs as much more than the GLA in the same context as how it is more high quality, substantial, coddling, luxurious, and premium over the GLA. It's bigger, higher, etc. The GLA is a lifted economy car at its core, it should be significantly lighter.
Read this carefully as well: The Macan is not supposed to be anything near a GLA in any trim. The fact that a Turbo can hang neck and neck with a genuine boy racer seeking GLA45 and not convey nearly any of the compromises that the GLA does, is impressive to Macan buyers. This is a total difference in perception.
"Cost cutting"? Every car is "cost cut" to some degrees, the Macan is pretty sans cost cutting if you ask me, considering how many things it does so well and how it drives like a bonafide tried and true Porsche at a bargain price. I don't think anyone who digs a GLA or CLA want to bring up "cost cutting" as they are sole creators of bean counters. AMG made them bonafide performance cars.
That review was the most subjective nonsense. How can he hate a CLA with such a passion yet love the GLA so much? Aren't they supposed to be almost identical? I'd imagine the CLA is even sportier.
Put it this way: The C450 will be a better competitor to a Macan than a GLA is. And even then, two TOTALLY different cars with different strengths.
Take it to the GLA forum or the Macan Forum
03-06-2015, 04:04 AM
#109
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Back on topic, the most impressive aspect of the C450 AMG will be the handeling. Imo
From the C&D article:
"Equally impressive is the C450 AMG’s chassis, which received quite a workout on the lumpy, twisting ribbons of asphalt that snake through southern Portugal’s Algarve region. The car rides on a uniquely developed multilink suspension with three-stage electronically adjustable dampers that come straight out of the C63. Whether bombing down smooth, high-speed straights or making quick left-right-left transitions on broken asphalt, the chassis loyally transmits the road’s texture at all four contact patches. Steering response is immediate, with satisfyingly linear buildup of effort and copious feedback tickling the driver’s fingertips. Even on long, winding descents, the brakes (with rotors measuring a robust 14.2 inches up front and 12.5 inches out back) always seemed to have enough power in reserve, with excellent pedal feedback. If there’s a bone to pick, it’s that the stiffest of the three-stage adjustable shock settings can be too brittle.
Almost All the AMG, All the Time
The C450 AMG looks almost exactly like the C63 and has a nearly identical interior, including the must-have optional one-piece racing-style seats. Indeed, from aesthetic and driving-comfort perspectives, at no point did we wish we were in the C63. Plus, as the C450 weighs some 200 pounds less than the C63, it drives smaller and feels nimbler, lending the midlevel car its own charm. One might see it as the spiritual successor to the 2002–2004 C32 AMG, which, when we last tested one, started at $52,120, or roughly where the C450 AMG 4MATIC is likely to fall without considering inflation. And the 349-hp C32 was slower, too.
So the eminently satisfying C450 AMG packs enough performance to be a full-blooded AMG model just a decade ago, and today it offers something like 75 to 80 percent of an Affalterbach special. Which is to say that it’s damn good."
From the C&D article:
"Equally impressive is the C450 AMG’s chassis, which received quite a workout on the lumpy, twisting ribbons of asphalt that snake through southern Portugal’s Algarve region. The car rides on a uniquely developed multilink suspension with three-stage electronically adjustable dampers that come straight out of the C63. Whether bombing down smooth, high-speed straights or making quick left-right-left transitions on broken asphalt, the chassis loyally transmits the road’s texture at all four contact patches. Steering response is immediate, with satisfyingly linear buildup of effort and copious feedback tickling the driver’s fingertips. Even on long, winding descents, the brakes (with rotors measuring a robust 14.2 inches up front and 12.5 inches out back) always seemed to have enough power in reserve, with excellent pedal feedback. If there’s a bone to pick, it’s that the stiffest of the three-stage adjustable shock settings can be too brittle.
Almost All the AMG, All the Time
The C450 AMG looks almost exactly like the C63 and has a nearly identical interior, including the must-have optional one-piece racing-style seats. Indeed, from aesthetic and driving-comfort perspectives, at no point did we wish we were in the C63. Plus, as the C450 weighs some 200 pounds less than the C63, it drives smaller and feels nimbler, lending the midlevel car its own charm. One might see it as the spiritual successor to the 2002–2004 C32 AMG, which, when we last tested one, started at $52,120, or roughly where the C450 AMG 4MATIC is likely to fall without considering inflation. And the 349-hp C32 was slower, too.
So the eminently satisfying C450 AMG packs enough performance to be a full-blooded AMG model just a decade ago, and today it offers something like 75 to 80 percent of an Affalterbach special. Which is to say that it’s damn good."
BMW has gotten so soft and now with M-B employing AMG to go where they previously wouldn't or couldn't on their "regular" i.e not "full AMG" cars, they've put themselves at risk of a C Class having a sporty edge over their halo "normal" (i.e non M) 3 Series. That would be a disaster for the current 3 as the C has such a drastic luxury advantage over the POS 3 Series interior, the only thing the 3 has held is a dynamic driving advantage since the W205 is so soft (in them with its luxury edge). If the C450 can now one up the 3 in sport while still maintaining a comfort/luxury edge, then BMW really slept on the F30.
Hey, more than happy. Tell the dude/s who irrelevantly drag up the car simply because it's in my sig. Nothing I've said about the C450 pertains to it.
03-06-2015, 04:36 AM
#110
Member
Thread Starter
What I can't wait to see is how it'll compare to the F30 335i M Sport with all the suspension options ticked, in handling. Though more fairly, the upcoming supposed 340i with the same setup.
BMW has gotten so soft and now with M-B employing AMG to go where they previously wouldn't or couldn't on their "regular" i.e not "full AMG" cars, they've put themselves at risk of a C Class having a sporty edge over their halo "normal" (i.e non M) 3 Series. That would be a disaster for the current 3 as the C has such a drastic luxury advantage over the POS 3 Series interior, the only thing the 3 has held is a dynamic driving advantage since the W205 is so soft (in them with its luxury edge). If the C450 can now one up the 3 in sport while still maintaining a comfort/luxury edge, then BMW really slept on the F30.
Hey, more than happy. Tell the dude/s who irrelevantly drag up the car simply because it's in my sig. Nothing I've said about the C450 pertains to it.
BMW has gotten so soft and now with M-B employing AMG to go where they previously wouldn't or couldn't on their "regular" i.e not "full AMG" cars, they've put themselves at risk of a C Class having a sporty edge over their halo "normal" (i.e non M) 3 Series. That would be a disaster for the current 3 as the C has such a drastic luxury advantage over the POS 3 Series interior, the only thing the 3 has held is a dynamic driving advantage since the W205 is so soft (in them with its luxury edge). If the C450 can now one up the 3 in sport while still maintaining a comfort/luxury edge, then BMW really slept on the F30.
Hey, more than happy. Tell the dude/s who irrelevantly drag up the car simply because it's in my sig. Nothing I've said about the C450 pertains to it.
I live in the Seattle area, lots of wet roads, AWD is a must here (if you really want to put the power down) once you get over 300 hp, especially with high torque turbo motors. BMW's AWD 3 and 4 series have increased ride height (higher CG) and really soft suspension, so I don't see them as a competitor to the C450 AMG. Plus the BMW dealer near me has a crap reputation. Now the all new Audi S4 that should be announced this summer, that could be an interesting competitor.
03-06-2015, 04:40 AM
#111
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
I live in the Seattle area, lots of wet roads, AWD is a must here (if you really want to put the power down) once you get over 300 hp, especially with high torque turbo motors. BMW's AWD 3 and 4 series have increased ride height (higher CG) and really soft suspension, so I don't see them as a competitor to the C450 AMG. Plus the BMW dealer near me has a crap reputation. Now the all new Audi S4 that should be announced this summer, that could be an interesting competitor.
I expect the next S4 to be pretty brilliant, it's pretty much benchmarked this particular area of the segment.
03-06-2015, 04:53 AM
#112
Member
Thread Starter
BMW's "XDrive" is crap in regards to performance. Indeed, it adds weight (which is normal for an AWD), and for some dumb reason doesn't get you the "M" suspension, so indeed it's soft and not very dynamic. M-B's 4Matic is also not a performance AWD and I'm not a fan of its feel, but AMG purportedly doing the "4Matic" for the C450 (is that confirmed?) makes things super interesting.
I expect the next S4 to be pretty brilliant, it's pretty much benchmarked this particular area of the segment.
I expect the next S4 to be pretty brilliant, it's pretty much benchmarked this particular area of the segment.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/future...C450_AMG_SPORT
03-06-2015, 10:38 AM
#113
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLA45 AMG
Lol. You clearly have no idea about the Macan. It comes in at 4,112 lbs in base trim. That is very light for its segment and size. It's lighter than an A7, lighter than an M5, lighter than a Maserati GT, and not much heavier than some loaded small sedans, etc. I don't know what you expect from a small "SUV", which the GLA is NOT (it's a lifted up Economy Taxi Hot Hatch in ROW, i.e A Class). Loaded to the gills, yes it'll pack on more lbs, as will any car, but it'll ride about as quiet, smooth and serene as an S Class if you want it too, and handle bumps better due to its more "rugged" nature to boot.
It weighs as much more than the GLA in the same context as how it is more high quality, substantial, coddling, luxurious, and premium over the GLA. It's bigger, higher, etc. The GLA is a lifted economy car at its core, it should be significantly lighter.
Read this carefully as well: The Macan is not supposed to be anything near a GLA in any trim. The fact that a Turbo can hang neck and neck with a genuine boy racer seeking GLA45 and not convey nearly any of the compromises that the GLA does, is impressive to Macan buyers. This is a total difference in perception.
"Cost cutting"? Every car is "cost cut" to some degrees, the Macan is pretty sans cost cutting if you ask me, considering how many things it does so well and how it drives like a bonafide tried and true Porsche at a bargain price. I don't think anyone who digs a GLA or CLA want to bring up "cost cutting" as they are sole creators of bean counters. AMG made them bonafide performance cars.
That review was the most subjective nonsense. How can he hate a CLA with such a passion yet love the GLA so much? Aren't they supposed to be almost identical? I'd imagine the CLA is even sportier.
Put it this way: The C450 will be a better competitor to a Macan than a GLA is. And even then, two TOTALLY different cars with different strengths.
The "faster and less money means it's better" is an argument for Mustang/Camaro or "Club si" forums, certainly not pertaining to any Mercedes. The GLA/CLA come close because of all the quality and luxury sacrifices they employ. Cars cost more for many reasons. You can get a Stingray for less and wipe the floor with the GLA45 in every performance metric or visceral engagement. Or a CTS Vsport and get more luxury and comparable straight line performance.
It weighs as much more than the GLA in the same context as how it is more high quality, substantial, coddling, luxurious, and premium over the GLA. It's bigger, higher, etc. The GLA is a lifted economy car at its core, it should be significantly lighter.
Read this carefully as well: The Macan is not supposed to be anything near a GLA in any trim. The fact that a Turbo can hang neck and neck with a genuine boy racer seeking GLA45 and not convey nearly any of the compromises that the GLA does, is impressive to Macan buyers. This is a total difference in perception.
"Cost cutting"? Every car is "cost cut" to some degrees, the Macan is pretty sans cost cutting if you ask me, considering how many things it does so well and how it drives like a bonafide tried and true Porsche at a bargain price. I don't think anyone who digs a GLA or CLA want to bring up "cost cutting" as they are sole creators of bean counters. AMG made them bonafide performance cars.
That review was the most subjective nonsense. How can he hate a CLA with such a passion yet love the GLA so much? Aren't they supposed to be almost identical? I'd imagine the CLA is even sportier.
Put it this way: The C450 will be a better competitor to a Macan than a GLA is. And even then, two TOTALLY different cars with different strengths.
The "faster and less money means it's better" is an argument for Mustang/Camaro or "Club si" forums, certainly not pertaining to any Mercedes. The GLA/CLA come close because of all the quality and luxury sacrifices they employ. Cars cost more for many reasons. You can get a Stingray for less and wipe the floor with the GLA45 in every performance metric or visceral engagement. Or a CTS Vsport and get more luxury and comparable straight line performance.
In today's environment, weight reduction is one of the most important, if not the most important measures of design and engineering achievement.
CLA/GLA are not compromising on the interior and ride either, stop your nonsense.
C450 a better competitor to the Macan than GLA45? Any more nonsense to add to your usual blah blah?
I know we need to stay on topic, but come on, there are better ways to include C450 in the conversation.
Last edited by dtc100; 03-06-2015 at 10:43 AM.
03-06-2015, 11:02 AM
#114
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
900 pounds heavier between the equivalent models, there are no excuses, it is embarassing, no way around it and sugar coating it, end of story.
In today's environment, weight reduction is one of the most important, if not the most important measures of design and engineering achievement.
CLA/GLA are not compromising on the interior and ride either, stop your nonsense.
C450 a better competitor to the Macan than GLA45? Any more nonsense to add to your usual blah blah?
I know we need to stay on topic, but come on, there are better ways to include C450 in the conversation.
In today's environment, weight reduction is one of the most important, if not the most important measures of design and engineering achievement.
CLA/GLA are not compromising on the interior and ride either, stop your nonsense.
C450 a better competitor to the Macan than GLA45? Any more nonsense to add to your usual blah blah?
I know we need to stay on topic, but come on, there are better ways to include C450 in the conversation.
Just stop man and quit baiting the O/T. There are no "equivalent models" here. The Macan isn't meant to compete with a lifted A Class, it's a totally different kind of car. You're missing the entire point of the car. Not everyone wants a compact, jacked up, high strung 4 banger. Macan buyers don't want something as brittle and light as a GLA if it comes with all its compromises. Road and Track did a much better Macan vs GLA comparo and they broke it down much better. Educate yourself more by reading that one. The added refinement, solidity and luxury comes at a cost, and that's weight. And the Macan is one of the lightest amongst actual direct rivals.
Yes, a C450 is a much better comparison. The GLA45 is a cheap mess inside, too loud, harsh and looks way too juvenile and goofy to someone looking specifically for a Macan. The C has a much closer interior and overall refinement to be comparable. The 450 now brings in a sporty essence now as well.
03-06-2015, 11:28 AM
#115
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2015 C400
Me and my dad own both the Macan and the C400. Both are amazing cars and much better and privileged than probably 90 percent of the population of the world. It is actually heart breaking for me to see people here so obsessed with having the 0.5 seconds faster car and how much better a Porsche or a Mercedes, or a Mercedes vs another Mercedes is. Come on guys, we are blessed and the privileged few in this world to even own such a vehicle. Stop picking on little things and being ungrateful. Every vehicle will have something or the other, its just seeing what your needs are and being happy/grateful about it. Just take a stroll passed the less privileged areas of your neighborhood and be thankful.
And secondly, I must say this. YOU DONT HAVE TO CONVINCE OTHERS ABOUT YOUR OPINION. If you feel something is good or bad, OK. That is your opinion. Just state it and move on. Others will have theirs. Don't let that affect you. Be happy with what decision you have made and what you think and smile.
As per my religious book the Quran, "If god was to give the son of Adam a valley of Gold, he will ask for another one". We wont ever be satisfied
.
And secondly, I must say this. YOU DONT HAVE TO CONVINCE OTHERS ABOUT YOUR OPINION. If you feel something is good or bad, OK. That is your opinion. Just state it and move on. Others will have theirs. Don't let that affect you. Be happy with what decision you have made and what you think and smile.
As per my religious book the Quran, "If god was to give the son of Adam a valley of Gold, he will ask for another one". We wont ever be satisfied
.
03-06-2015, 11:33 AM
#116
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLA45 AMG
Macan caters to more mature drivers, so is C450, that is no point though to belittle GLA45 since it caters to someone who is not so old.
The C Class in general will not bring in younger buyers for MB, now the upscale interior is a big step above the last gen C, I think it will attract even more mature drivers.
Yet all luxury brands have one most pressing issue, how to get the younger buyers in the door.
The job is now left for CLA/GLA to fill. I don't see an equivalent version in the Porsche line up yet.
Who knows, C450 with added AMG bits and badge may serve that function. The AMG name recognition seems to break all age barriers.
The C Class in general will not bring in younger buyers for MB, now the upscale interior is a big step above the last gen C, I think it will attract even more mature drivers.
Yet all luxury brands have one most pressing issue, how to get the younger buyers in the door.
The job is now left for CLA/GLA to fill. I don't see an equivalent version in the Porsche line up yet.
Who knows, C450 with added AMG bits and badge may serve that function. The AMG name recognition seems to break all age barriers.
Last edited by dtc100; 03-06-2015 at 11:39 AM.
03-06-2015, 01:08 PM
#117
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2015 C300 Luxury
Macan caters to more mature drivers, so is C450, that is no point though to belittle GLA45 since it caters to someone who is not so old.
The C Class in general will not bring in younger buyers for MB, now the upscale interior is a big step above the last gen C, I think it will attract even more mature drivers.
Yet all luxury brands have one most pressing issue, how to get the younger buyers in the door.
The job is now left for CLA/GLA to fill. I don't see an equivalent version in the Porsche line up yet.
Who knows, C450 with added AMG bits and badge may serve that function. The AMG name recognition seems to break all age barriers.
The C Class in general will not bring in younger buyers for MB, now the upscale interior is a big step above the last gen C, I think it will attract even more mature drivers.
Yet all luxury brands have one most pressing issue, how to get the younger buyers in the door.
The job is now left for CLA/GLA to fill. I don't see an equivalent version in the Porsche line up yet.
Who knows, C450 with added AMG bits and badge may serve that function. The AMG name recognition seems to break all age barriers.
I don't see older people in C-Classes around here...
03-06-2015, 02:31 PM
#119
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CLA45 AMG
There are always exceptions to the rule.
I know quite a few grandpas and empty nesters who have abandoned their E classes or Porsches, now drive CLA45 or GLA45 and having the time of their lives.
I didn't want to mention them for fear of freaking K-A out.
I know quite a few grandpas and empty nesters who have abandoned their E classes or Porsches, now drive CLA45 or GLA45 and having the time of their lives.
I didn't want to mention them for fear of freaking K-A out.
03-06-2015, 04:25 PM
#120
MBWorld Fanatic!
The new W205 C Class just felt too "old" for me, being a mini-S Class, so I moved on. Don't see coming back. But, my wife is two years younger and yearns for a new E or S. Car choice is about psychographics, not demographics.
03-06-2015, 05:11 PM
#121
Here's the thing. I'd ONLY get a C class because I want to have a car I can throw around. An S Class does NOT appeal to me. The C and E class are so close (anymore anyway) in size that I dont see the advantage of the E class, Plus Ive got a minivan if I need something larger anyway for family trips. This is why the C450 is so appealing. Its "like" a C63 with AWD, just a lil less power!!
03-06-2015, 07:06 PM
#122
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Me and my dad own both the Macan and the C400. Both are amazing cars and much better and privileged than probably 90 percent of the population of the world. It is actually heart breaking for me to see people here so obsessed with having the 0.5 seconds faster car and how much better a Porsche or a Mercedes, or a Mercedes vs another Mercedes is. Come on guys, we are blessed and the privileged few in this world to even own such a vehicle. Stop picking on little things and being ungrateful. Every vehicle will have something or the other, its just seeing what your needs are and being happy/grateful about it. Just take a stroll passed the less privileged areas of your neighborhood and be thankful.
Macan caters to more mature drivers, so is C450, that is no point though to belittle GLA45 since it caters to someone who is not so old.
The C Class in general will not bring in younger buyers for MB, now the upscale interior is a big step above the last gen C, I think it will attract even more mature drivers.
Yet all luxury brands have one most pressing issue, how to get the younger buyers in the door.
The job is now left for CLA/GLA to fill. I don't see an equivalent version in the Porsche line up yet.
Who knows, C450 with added AMG bits and badge may serve that function. The AMG name recognition seems to break all age barriers.
The C Class in general will not bring in younger buyers for MB, now the upscale interior is a big step above the last gen C, I think it will attract even more mature drivers.
Yet all luxury brands have one most pressing issue, how to get the younger buyers in the door.
The job is now left for CLA/GLA to fill. I don't see an equivalent version in the Porsche line up yet.
Who knows, C450 with added AMG bits and badge may serve that function. The AMG name recognition seems to break all age barriers.
I had a C300 (rear wheel drive, 6MT) from age 54-60 (Is that "older"?) and sold it for the new car shown in my signature.
The new W205 C Class just felt too "old" for me, being a mini-S Class, so I moved on. Don't see coming back. But, my wife is two years younger and yearns for a new E or S. Car choice is about psychographics, not demographics.
The new W205 C Class just felt too "old" for me, being a mini-S Class, so I moved on. Don't see coming back. But, my wife is two years younger and yearns for a new E or S. Car choice is about psychographics, not demographics.
Therefore, the C450 with AMG suspension tuning and a bit of livening up is exactly what those who want an M-B but also want a sport sedan and might find themselves in a predicament, will look at.
Last edited by K-A; 03-06-2015 at 07:10 PM.
03-06-2015, 09:15 PM
#123
Senior Member
I got a brand new 944s back when I was 20 in 1988. Nice cars, but now I see more older folks driving them. IMO, no appeal for anyone who is not old and single or single, not family friendly (aside from the Panamera). As for SUV, my previous Escalade ESV Platinum did a great job with air ride and most everything an S class had (400hp engine to boot, granted the thing was a pig @ 15 mgp). Anyway, we all have opinions don't we.
Last edited by bartola; 03-06-2015 at 09:20 PM.
03-06-2015, 09:21 PM
#124
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2010 BMW X5
K-A, now that you've gotten the Macan and has no interest in buying the C class, may I ask why you're still here constantly shoehorning the Macan into every comparison? I'm sure there are better outlets online for you to talk about your new car. You even mentioned the need to stay on topic yourself, so let's do just that.
Anyway, the C class seem to be a great success so far in sales:
C-Class and SUVs bring Mercedes-Benz record sales in February
Anyway, the C class seem to be a great success so far in sales:
C-Class and SUVs bring Mercedes-Benz record sales in February
As in January, the C-Class Sedan and Estate posted particular high sales growth in February at 66.6%. The C-Class Sedan was the segment leader in both January and February. In the first two months, a total of 63,878 customers took over their new C-Class Sedan or Estate (+59.1%). Customer deliveries of these model series have never been so high in the first two months of the year.
03-06-2015, 09:36 PM
#125
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,557
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
18 Posts
Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
K-A, now that you've gotten the Macan and has no interest in buying the C class, may I ask why you're still here constantly shoehorning the Macan into every comparison? I'm sure there are better outlets online for you to talk about your new car. You even mentioned the need to stay on topic yourself, so let's do just that.
Anyway, the C class seem to be a great success so far in sales:
C-Class and SUVs bring Mercedes-Benz record sales in February
Anyway, the C class seem to be a great success so far in sales:
C-Class and SUVs bring Mercedes-Benz record sales in February
Nowhere did I bring it up, until no less than 2 or 4 people brought it up and dragged it out, simply because it's what I drive. I have no intention of talking about a Porsche in this context in a C Class forum, and my original post didn't bait that at all.
And yes, the C will of course be a sales success, M-B will make sure of it no matter how much incentivizing and discounting they will have to employ. This is also a boon for the existence of the C450 for someone who likes the C but wants it to stand out a bit from the pack, yet can't or doesn't want to go full AMG.
