Mike5215

Wouldn't count on it. You'll find those same exact speakers in a $110k S Class. If you spring for the $6400 3D surround system, you'll find even more of them and more amplification.

Congrats on the build though. That thing sounds awesome.

ManiacGT

It's not crappy, you just don't get better hifi because you pay more for the car itself.

Mike5215

Yeah I should emphasize that for a premium OEM audio system (and one that adds relatively little to the price of the car vs what the base Audio 20 does) it's decent and I think most casual listeners will be perfectly happy with it.

Although (and this is unconfirmed) my bet is the Audio 20 uses the same speakers as the Burmester, just a lot fewer of them (4 of the 4", 1 of the 8" sub vs 7 4", 4 tweets and 2 8" subs in the Burmester)

jmanhas00

Anyone know if audison has a drop in kit for the w216?

Mike5215

Nothing Audison makes is vehicle specific or "drop in" as far as the wiring goes. You'd use either the Prima 8.9, or a Bit One and a separate multichannel amp or amps. You'd still need to run 12v from the battery to the trunk, and then splice into each speaker lead you want to run on the new gear.

123Britt

Is there not a solution which would allow for the JL 82 FIX to be deleted in favor of a different Processor than the Audison. $1200 is a lot for the 2 units.

Mike5215

No kidding. Killed me to come in with another $300 on top of everything else. The only way to find out would be to try a different DSP amp and see if its processing alone would strip out the VNC. My experience is only with the Prima so I can't help you, but if you figure it out post back.

Shadwell

I'd be f'ing ecstatic with mine if i could hear it over the bloody tyres and creaks klaus spent millions of Euro's engineering into my car..


Fair play tho cos he / she did a great job, it has heaps of creaks..





Mike aside from improved speaker reposnse, did the hush mat of the doors make a marked difference? thinking stereo off, highway speed driving..
No point taking cards off if the factory sound proffing is pretty good hear. I see they have coustic fabric sheet a standard..


Cheers

Mike5215

I wasn't there when the cards were pulled but if the 205 has acoustic inner door panel liners it would be unusual. I know the W221 had none...big steel pie plates.

I don't think any one improvement knocks it out of the park, just incremental ones adding up. I did address a major dash creak this weekend that was the last piece of the puzzle. I think it's now as good as it's going to get and I'm happy with it. With the audio at 3/4 volume around town I hear nothing from outside the car normally. At 80+ on the highway I do get some wind noise creeping in.

What's creaking if you've been able to hunt it down. Are you getting it coming at you from the instrument panel/console area?

Shadwell

Not to go too far off topic, but in a you tube video of the cards being removed the matting was there..
Creaks I have PITA around rear RHS seat / Boot cover (its a wagon), activated when the car is under torque, eg cornering or across en even surface (up a driveway...
Its chassis twist moving two adjacent surfaces, rear seats, plastic trim of the cover roller bar are key suspects..
The rest are in every door card around the LED strip ash wood inlay to door card, the center consule similar locations, the dash around the gauge cluster, the rear view mirror (only when adjusted) and the command screen again only when touched...


I have its first service coming up and after that i'm taking it apart and putting it together properly.. thank god 20 years auto manuf engineering i am reasonably confident i will be able to sort it out.. adhesive felt and dynamant at the ready...


I fitted magnaflow straight through (standard system in front) so i don't mind a little of the right sort of noise.. just not te falling apart noise..

Mike5215

Interesting. I know my shop had to use extra long panel clips after the Hushmat and even then there's a little gap, so it's packed in there pretty good. I distinctly remember the door sounded very hollow when closing before. Solid "thunk" now.

KSP1138

I'm transferring in the system from my old car which includes a MS-8, 5 channel amp, and sub in the next few days so I'm hoping the MS-8 will be able to strip out the VNC. Do you know if your installer disabled the fake engine noises that play through the speakers? The wiring diagram shows input connections to the factory amp from an "engine sound control unit", with wire colors that correspond to the front and rear door speakers. I'm wondering if that was causing problems too. If I have similar issues I'll try disconnecting those inputs.

Have you noticed any issues with the center and surrounds through the factory amp being ahead of the rest of the speakers connected to the prima by few ms? I'm planning on running everything through the 8 channels of the MS-8: 2-way front, center, sub, and paralleling the rear sides and surrounds.

Mike5215

It's possible the "engine sound control unit" you discovered actually is the VNC. I'm certain the car does not play engine sounds fake or otherwise through the audio system. In other words, the VNC, which had no mic we could locate, may rely on the engine noise to determine how much compensation to apply. Killing those connections may cure the VNC issue.

The Prima (and JL) has time correction adjustment so after it was set up on each speaker everything sync'd up. The center channel is pretty hot but the two rear surrounds don't put out much.

So the JL has 8 powered channels @ 20 watts. Are you able to use the extra 5 channel amp to take some of the outputs from the JL at line level so you still get the DSP but can add power?

KSP1138

I hope you're right, but BMW (Active Sound) has been doing it for a while and I wouldn't be shocked if Mercedes is too now, even though they don't like to advertise it. Now that I'm looking at the diagram again that module is referenced with U165 & U936 which are codes for "Valid for AMG" and "Valid for increased engine power", so it probably isn't there in the C300. The wires that connect to it are there in my C450, which had me confused for a while since there were two sets of blue, brown, orange, and brown wires at the amp. These wires going to the door speakers are 14awg while the wires coming from this thing are 18awg. I have no idea where that module is located.

What I'm worried about here is your signal path is stock amp to Fix 82 to Prima to your speakers, while your center/surrounds that aren't being processed past the stock amp go directly to the speakers. You can time correct the speakers that are connected to the Prima to each other, but the center/surrounds will always get the signal somewhat ahead of everything else. The Fix82/Prima processing delay could be small enough that you don't notice it, but there has to be some delay there.

Yes, you can mix and match the 8 output channels by either directly connecting speakers to them using the internal amplification or connecting external amps to any of the 8 preamp outputs.

Thanks for posting the link to your build that included the wiring diagram. That was a huge help in figuring things out and saved me a ton of time.

Mike5215

Got it, yeah you're right, the center/surrounds that are direct from the amp would be ahead. I got the tuning where I wanted it, everything blended in okay. The other speakers on the Prima overwhelm the 3 orphaned speakers on signal so that helps. If you want to do a write up on your system when it's where you want it I'll add it to the blog. Get some pics along the way!

KSP1138

I'll do that. Just waiting for a cooler day to do the install.

Jan AMG

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHF7_WrNCnc

Mike5215

Not surprised. At least the S Class get actual woofers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mHF7_WrNCnc

unr1

LOL

gotta gouge the suckers somehow (I'm included in the sucker category).



reposting the link:

runmkm

Great post Mike.

Quite a time re-configuring your audio.

I have a 2018 E400 coupe.

In the options, one is "driving recommendation volume'. Do you have any clue what this does?

The default is set at 48. Can be changed up or down, but doesn't seem to make any difference either way.

Any thoughts ?

mbfan219

Star4life

you are amazing. I didnt spend much time looking but I def wanted a harness so I didnt have to cut factory wires. Very nice find. WIll be buying immediately!!

Camel-

Sorry for digging that old topic. But the history of making HK or Burmester sounds event better is very interesting for me
I used to have W210 with standard audio, then another W210 with BOSE, what showed me how better this system can be. From that time I put OEM Bose system to my every other W210 (I'd got them a lot ). Times changed I've got in my parking CLK 200 with HK, 2010 E 250 CGI with standard upgraded to HK and another E 220 d with standard sound system.
Now I now, that Bose was the best audio I've ever had in my any MB car - but only if I merge it with some Pioneer/Carozzerria headunit.
In fact I noticed that HK/Burmester system is more about effects than about real sound quality.

I am reading all your fight with soundsystems Mike (including fighting with W221) and I am really glad that you are showing all of us what can be better or worse.

But one thing puzzles me. Isn't that true, Burmester is suddenly new brand of car audio for MB and all you are showing is HK-looks speakers, HK-looks amp... maybe, I am saying: maybe... Harman/Becker bought some part of Burmester to make HK still car audio supplier under new brand Burmster that customer can feel a little bit more luxury... but it is still crappy?

Now I am fighting with myself what should I do in my second E 220 d W212: go with aftermarket Pioneer DSP and aftermarket speakers or just buy used parts of HK, put it togheter and forget about the case?
I am not a fan with processors connected to processors because every component makes distorstions.

lucjan

I am trying to find out what does front dash speaker in W205 A20? Can;t hear anything during playing the music, navi or BT calls.

PaulR7

If you have one it will be used for the SOS button (and maybe phone calls?), if you have Audio20 and no SOS button then you have nothing underneath that grille.