skratch77

so you think its fair to compair a car with 450+hp and even more torque to a little 3.2 n/a m3?

oh and i wasnt first compairing the rs6 to anything I was compairing the rs4 to the m3.

did the rs4 come to the states???

oh last i checked the ring is in germany

EKaru

I wasn't the one comparing them... You're the one who said "if your going to use audi's best why not use bmw's as well,the m3 csl did it in 7:52 or somthing like that."
Eric....

skratch77

my mistake someone posted the rs6 beating the m3 around the ring.I was originally compairing the s4/rs4 to the m3.Wich I think is a more fair compairison.

then he brought up the rs6 into the mix and then I said if your going to use audis best why not use bmws.

Jon200

Are you reading this M&M

I believe there is some connection between F1 technology and the new M5 engine too

AMGod

"Originally Posted by skratch77
the 4 year old m3 has done the ring in well under 8 min and audi has still yet to beat it with any of its r/rs line cars and you think the next m will be any different?"

"audi has still yet to beat it with any of its r/rs line cars and you think the next m will be any different?" [skratch 77]

I wonder what the Champion RS6 would do to the CSL, or my old MTM 520HP RS6.

To some, the truth is poison.

AMGod

I believe the M3 CSL did the Ring in 7.50 with a power to weight ratio of Weight / Bhp 3,9 Kg / PS.

The available for Rest of World purchase E46 M3 had a power to weight ratio of Weight / BhP 4,6 Kg / PS.

The available for Rest of World purchase RS6 had a power to weight ratio of
Weight / BhP 4,24 Kg/ PS.

The RS6 weighed 712.8 lbs more than the M3 and still beat it at The Ring.

'The first round of the 2004 SPEED GT World Challenge is held on Friday as part of the Sebring 12 Hour race support programme. Title holder Champion Racing goes to the grid under the new entry of “Audi Certified Champion RS 6 Team”. The outfit of the Audi RS 6 Competition, re-worked technically in many details, is also new: The defending SPEED GT champion Randy Pobst and his team colleague Michael Galati now line up with silver and red cars. '

Maybe the M prepped CSL M3 would like a go at these beasties; maybe NOT.

reggid

can i ask what your point is?

The rs6 has a better power to weight ratio than the M3 and the ring is not a tight track so a heavy fast car will do well especially if it has a 10% better power to weight ratio in the first place. You'll notice that the link you posted shows that at the Ring the m3 corners faster but the rs6 is significantly faster in a striaghtline. So the car with the faster lap time will depend on the type of track at which the time is taken. At hockenheim the cars where the same because the rs6 can't utilise its straightline speed enough to gain any advantage.

M&M

Hey AMGod, can I ask what the point of comparing a racing car (RS6) to a road car? We drive around in road cars. A good racing team can make any car handle well.

skratch77

I wonder what an m3csl gtr 440hp will do to that car.You can't comapair race cars to street cars.

theres also a supercharged m3 csl with well over 500hp running around,im sure he would love to messs around with any audi around a track .

heres a little video of this gutted csl linky

AMGod

My point is to show that Quattro Gmbh engineering does well at delivering highly capable vehicles despite them being porky as hell, as you have pointed out. Personally, I do not like closed mindedness prompted by extreme marque loyalty. My point was to illustrate to scratch that his initial statement was dead wrong. Audi has built an RS vehicle that beats the 4 year old M3 at the Ring. To spin the argument away from the original statement by bringing up the CSL takes the debate into a whole new direction, which is pointless. Now, it appears that there are some here that need to appreciate AMG and Quattro Gmbh for what they can accomplish. Personally, having owned an M3, RS6, and E55 in the recent past; I can appreciate the nuances of all marques. Also, I will be leasing an E90 four door M3 in about a year when my current vehicle is at negative equity if a C63 is not available. I say this being able to get anything out there, including the V10 M5. Now, I believe my point of disproving scratch's original statement is undeniable.

AMGod

It'd be nice to see rather than speculate. Maybe BMW will bring the M3 GTR back instead of competing it illegally at IMSA and having to pull the car rather than make it rule compliant. Personally, I hope a lot of its genetics make it into the E90. Hopefully, you have learned to appreciate Quattro's engineering prowess by having your initial statement disproven.

"audi has still yet to beat it with any of its r/rs line cars and you think the next m will be any different?" [skratch 77]

skratch77

amgod where have you proven me wrong.Show me an audi rs4/rs6/s4 doing the ring in under 8 min????

the csl did it in 7:50 where have you proven me wrong.My brother has an s4 so please dont tell me how well they handle.

nice to see that you have no idea why bmw got kicked out with the gtr.Go do some research buddy.

the original m3 gtr was a 420hp 3.2 inline 6 n/a and was beating the crap out of porsche and they *****ed that it was an illegal engine for its class.

the gtr was beating all the v8s with its inline 6 and was kicked out becaue it didnt use a v8.BMW then built a v8 gtr to compete again.

the e60 m5 beat the csl time on the top gear track where they tested many fast cars.

Maserati MC12 1.18.9
Ferrari F60 Enzo 1.19.0
Ariel Atom 1.19.5
Porsche Carerra GT 1.19.8
Mercedes McLaren SLR 1.20.9
Ford GT 1.21.9
Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
Ferrari F430 coupe 1.22.9
Murcielago 1.23.7
Zonda 1.23.8
Koenigsegg 1.23.9
Noble 1.25.0
Gallardo 1.25.8
BMW M5 E60 1.26.2
Lotus Exige 1.26.4
Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
TVR 350C 1.27.5
BMW M3 CSL 1.28.0
Dodge Viper SRT-10 1.28.5
MG SV 1.28.6
Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1.28.9
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1.28.9
BMW Alpine Z8 1.29.0

wheres the rs6 on that list?

AMGod

Stay focused and slowly review the information at the link.

RS6 vs. M3

"Originally Posted by skratch77
the 4 year old m3 has done the ring in well under 8 min and audi has still yet to beat it with any of its r/rs line cars and you think the next m will be any different?"

"audi has still yet to beat it with any of its r/rs line cars and you think the next m will be any different?" [skratch 77]



Digression is the sign of a weak mind.

skratch77

omg i already told you if your going to use audis best you have to use bmws.

compair that 100k rs6 to an m3csl not a regular m3

and that e46 test is an old one.Im sure the compition m3 with 19's will get a better time

again you pick audis best wich and chose a regular m3.The csl is a production m3 you know

m5vsrs6

cslvsrs6

AMGod

Look carefully at your statement. Review the link. You will see an M3 being beaten by an Audi RS vehicle which directly contradicts your statement. To deny the facts leaves you in a pissing contest alone. Watch your feet for the splash factor. Feel free to dance in circles alone.

Another link.

M3 loses to S4 loses to Acura Speedvision Challenge Series

skratch77

deny what facts this whole time im ofcourse using bmws best track time for the mpower cars.Why in hell would you pic a slower m car and compair it to audis best other than trying to prove your point and think audis are faster than m's around a track.

Dont you think i KNOW WHAT THE REGULAR M3 DOES THE RING IN.

im still waiting for a responce from you about the m3gtr with its little tinny 3.2 beating porschs v8 and them moning and crying telling them that that car is illegal because it dosnt have a v8.

skahung

Looks like this thread is gonna last for a while..Ahahaaha!

GC55

This thread rocks! I love the car battles. The S4 is audis top sport sedan,comparable to the M3(not really). The RS4 is a worked version of that,so why not compare it to the worked version of the M3 the CSL?? Lets get some stats from those 2?? The CSL would eat it up?

05C55

Although they made big power and had AWD, they were very heavy and ate tires all season long last year. I haven't been following the season this year.

EKaru

What you talkin' about Willis??


http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1

First read those two articles... Second... Why does faster always equate to better?
Eric...

scovit

You know what guys.....you miss the point.

3 Cars, 3 Car companies making 3 great cars. First, the M3 as the top dog, then the C55 comes along and puts the heat on and now the RS-4. In a while the E-90 M3. Then the C63 or some variant. And so it goes on and on. Count on it.

What fun!

What is exciting to me is that in this class you have 3 great choices and in the midsize class you have 3 choices!

Pick your ride. They're all great! Mine is the C55 which for the moment out cruises all of them, a strength which in my opinion really makes sense.

Q: Where do you (can you) go fastest?
A: On the highway! (autobahn)

But that's just my opinion. I'm middle-aged so I kind of identify w/ the schzoid civility of the C55. My choice my ride.

They each have strengths or in the case of the RS4 will have strengths. ...And they each have attributes that relates to our subjective interests and tastes.

AMGod

Bravo! Agree 100%. We as the open minded consumer all profit.

Jon200

The new RS4 should be a good car

skratch77

will you ever give up....

that m3 in the link is a e36 m3 and has 240hp stock.Its the american spec please.

do you want me to dig up the m3 winning 4 years in a row articles.

IM not going to I have nothing to prove.

AMGod

RS6s vs. M3 in 2004 (look down the page for the BMW teams)

M3 finished 13 and 16 to RS6 1 and 2. Can't be, IMPOSSIBLE!

McMillin Motorsports (13)
BMW M3
3.2L I6

Stewart Motorsports (16)
BMW M3
3.2L I6


Teehee.