BoBcanada

new Z06 > c55, 997s ETC

reggid

The following says otherwise. Just look at the hockenheim time which is a better comparison than the highspeed nurburgring. It may be closer on highspeed turns but in the real twisties its not as fast.

http://www.track-challenge.com

reggid

if it is faster in a straightline how can it handle aswell as the m3 if it gets the same track time

PC Valkyrie

You know, I didn't want to start another M3 vs C55 type of argument. All I wanted to say was that the C55 holds up pretty well against its competitors (like the M3 and S4) despite the fact it doesn't have a mechanical LSD. Of course, the M3 lovers have to jump in to defend the their beloved car because there is just no way a Mercedes 4 door sedan can EVER approach the king of the hill M3, especially in the handling department, right??

Yes, the old E46 M3 STILL is king when it comes to subjective driving experience for the enthusiast. Better feedback, better steering, slightly less body roll through the curves. Overall, a more engaging driving experience compared to the C55. No one disputes that.

Straightline acceleration. From the mainstream North American magazines testing North American spec 333HP M3's, the acceleration numbers are very similar to the C55, with a slight edge to the C55. In those magazines which have tested Euro spec 343HP M3's, its the other way around, with the M3 usually edging out the C55 slightly. Bottom line: there is very little separating these cars in acceleration. It would be a driver's race, although the M3 driver must launch and shift skillfully to keep up with the automatic C55.

In fact, if you look at that website above, the straightline acceleration of the M3 is FASTER than the C55 in every category. Despite that, the C55 manages to hang with the M3 on the Nurburgring. On the shorter and slower Hockenheim ring, the M3 time is 1:17.6, while the C55 is slightly slower at 1:18.6. This is a pretty small difference for track times done on different days.

The fact that the lap times are so close tells me that there is not a huge difference in the performance (straightline and handling) between the two cars. Sure, on another day, maybe the C55 will be faster than the M3, or vice versa because of temperature, etc, etc, but it WON'T be that much different.

Hats off to BMW for producing and marketing the "ultimate driving experience". There are 3 series everywhere. reggid, you can go on being a brainwashed BMW zombie that thinks that the E46 M3 can't ever be matched in terms of objective performance.

reggid

i'm not here to float BMW's boat i am just after facts and truth, not biased opinions of owners.

The m3's standing start/elasticity times are quicker, but these aren't applicable to the track performance, at the nurburgring timing points the c55 is faster in a straightline and the m3 faster in the curves. Bear in mind the faster corner speed will allow better speed through the traps but the m3 still trapped slower on the straights and yet had the same time of 8:22 it must handle better and faster. You may not think 1 second is pretty big in a 70-80 second lap but it is, I aslo have tests that show the m3 being more than 2sec per lap faster in a lap time of 1:40.

you can try that good old line whenever some presents facts that don't agree with yours, but the tests show that there is a difference. The fact that after 8 mins the two cars are equal on the track says nothing about them handling equally especially on a high speed circuit where it is commonlt believed that one car is superior in straightline acceleration than another. It seems funny that c55 owners are willing to concede that the m3 is almost as fast in straightline but only in an attempt to try to prove that the c55's handling is on par on the track. What happened to the old saying......who needs track performance when i drive on the street, or does it not apply if you think your car is actually faster this time around.

The fact is that the m3 handles better and corners faster than the c55 but the c55 is faster in a straighline!

PC Valkyrie

Show me something that backs that up. I've used the very similar lap times at the "ring" and Hockenheim as my facts to back up my assertion that the C55 can hang with a M3 on a track (the C55 is not better, but it is pretty close).

Where are your "facts" that show that the M3 can blow away a C55 on a curve?

reggid

for starters i never said blow away, but its just plain faster through the curves. It sounds like you don't realise the differnce a few mph make in a corner or how 1 second is not close in a 1:20 lap, neither is 2 seconds in a 1:40 lap (motor magazine)I f you think that it hangs well enough good luck to you.

The actual times say nothing about the handling they only say something about handling and acceleration combined but everyone knows the c55 will pull an m3 slightly with the result more pronounced in highspeed run. I am not argueing that the c55 can't compete with the m3 on the track (which is a function of handling and straightline speed) its just that the track needs to have certain characteristics to do so and tight corners is not one of them.

PC Valkyrie

OK. I think we agree on that point. What you're saying is that the C55 is slightly faster in accelertion and trap speeds, while the M3 is slightly faster around tight curves. The key point here is there is no BIG difference in acceleration and handling between these 2 cars. The end result is they both offer similar track performance, with high speed tracks favouring the C55, while slower and more curvy tracks favouring the M3.

Can we just get along?

AgentQ

This argument is hilarious. I am selling my NSX now that I have my C55. My NSX is a cornering magician with the newly installed NSX-R suspension, and yes that's freakin' great. It's also hands down the slower of the two cars by a big margin. However, in the NSX, I always feel like I'm going faster than in the C55. The noise and the harshness of the ultra-stiff suspension, the thin aluminum body, and the wind noise make high speeds seem surreal. The funny thing is that when I was shopping for a fast sedan I drove an M3 and kept thinking ... geez this feels just like my NSX, and that's a bad thing. I didn't want to spend nearly $60k on a sedan that would rattle and shake the hell out of my passengers. It's rediculous. They wouldn't expect it from a sedan and the sedan's purpose was to carry more people. The M3 is a Jersey-boy go-kart and the C55 is an understated luxury sedan that actually has some ***** (read ***** as torque). Who do you want to be? Michael (C55) or Fredo (M3)

reggid

yes

reggid

it depends on how i feel on any particular day

ash-c32

I like to read thes comments about which car is faster than than that car.....I think my C32 will 'waste' most cars on the road due to the almost instant torque available which gives it an advantage over most others unless the other guy is absolutely in the right gear and speed.
but I think the best feeling is seeing another car with more power simply driving away from your own......I will always remeber my friends 500 bhp Nissan skyline storming away from my 350bhp skyline from 70mph and shooting a foot long flame from the exhaust for good maesure.

I do feel that AMG cars are not track optimised in the same way as an M3 and that is their choice, there is too much sneeze factor in the steering, the damping is optimised for low to medium speeds and the springs are too soft. Makes a good a family car though.

05C55

As the title suggests, the M3 is not going to lose a C55 and vice versa. I like my C55 a lot, but if I had to choose a track car, I would be looking at an M3/911. On the street, the C55 kills the M3. Its just as capable on the street and stays close in the twisties but absolutely kills the M3 in ride comfort amenities, reliability, and an overall user friendly platform. Unlike the M3, manual or SMG with jerky shifts. The C55 is a great car. The M3 is a little to purposeful, not a bad thing, just more compromises for daily life than the C55.

That being said, I may be driving an M3 right now if the window trim hadn't fallen into my lap while I was test driving it.