2QUIK4U

I have had my C55 for a couple of months now, and inevitably I am starting to explore potential paths of optimising the car through tuning. However, based on past experience, the adage that "you will never get out of it, what you put into it" generally holds true. Consequently I am reluctant sink a lot of money into the car. Especially given, that new c-class is coming out fairly soon.

Is there a way to add value to a car through tuning? For example, if I decide to purchase only AMG Manufaktur parts (e.g. Limited slip, steering wheel nuerburgring suspension, etc.) or parts from another reputable tuner, I would think that this would increase the value to some degree. I know some of you have done Renntech or Kleemann mods, I would be curious to know your thoughts or experiences regarding resale value of your vehicles.

dragonAMG

I think that if done right, sending your car to Kleemann or Renntech will definitely increase the value of your car. I recently put my car on eBay just to see what the market would bear and it bid up to 76k (under my reserve, but still a decent price) whereas a regular C55 will sell on eBay 47-50k. Clearly, eBay is the absolute wrong way to sell a car like this. If I ultimately decide to sell it, will I recoop all of my money? Probably not all of it, but, I definitely think I'll be able to recoop a good portion of it. And, if it gets featured in a magazine or two and I keep the miles low, I'll definitely be able to sell it for a premium.

The Kleemann demo C55 that was featured in Car & Driver sold for 89k.

Vader13

Waste of money YES
Waste of good times NO

Company feature cars don't count.
They pay close to nothing for the parts and labor and make money back off of selling the mods to other people.
They also have a better chance to sell because of high visablity to the niche market and the customer can be confident that it was put together right and also that if it blows up the company will fix it.
In truth after my selling of 2 W203's the value of C Classes and Mercs in general is ****ing crap.
True story buy used.

dragonAMG

That's why I said if done right... I sent my car to Kleemann HQ in Colorado and didn't half *** anything. I have all receipts, documentation, pics of the whole process etc. etc.

If I decide to sell it, when I decide to sell it, I'm sure I'll be able to get a very fair price for the car.

Vader13

Yeah, but you also have to convince the customer.
Everyone is going to claim their car is done right.

dragonAMG

I completely understand your POV and appreciate what you're saying... all I am saying is that I went the extra mile to ensure that it was. Any potential customer of mine can call either Brandon or Cory at Kleemann HQ. And like I said, I have every receipt, picture, dyno, etc. making a complete detailed history "storybook" of my car. And then it all comes down to finding the right buyer and it won't come by way of eBay or any online forum classified.

Kev04C320

It's a waste of money when it comes to trade it or sell time. You're better off selling it as a stock vehicle and part your mods separately, but that would add cost of changing your car back into the original shape. However, you have enjoyed the added benefits of mods and that to me is, well, priceless

carlosrg

I like to comment on this. I have always and will always probably mod my cars. To have the car next to me be the same as mine always bothered me. We are not clones so why a clone of another car.

Remember for some us cars are our hobby and nobody said a hobby was cheap or a good investment.

Cars are one of the worst investments one can ever make. So why do we do it? Because of the love of cars plain and simple.

Some mods may hold their value more because they are more sought after, for example a Renntech Supercharger is more valued than a say a HPS one.

So if you want to mod the car and can afford then go for it. But if you think you are going mod and get your money back out of then maybe not.

Vader13

Thats a plus to have and you paid for that kind of Mod Security, but at the same time after a year or so of hard driving customers can freak out about highly modifed cars that have clearly been driven hard, warranties fade parts break and it can turn to ****. The average tuner is better of just parting it out.
Guys like me just throw keys at the dealer and point to another car.
I don't really give a **** and get my monies worth off the good times.
Haggleing over 3 grand for weeks about an old set of Brabus rims is a nightmare to me.

dragonAMG

lol... point well taken. I definitely agree... there is definitely a window of opporunity to sell a car like mine. If decide to sell it, I can't expect to drive it for 3-4 years and sell it for 80k. My guess is that I would probably have to sell it here in the next year in order to get a good value out of the car. What ever way you look at it, a car is a depreciating asset and you're going to lose money no matter what, just a matter of how much.

Vader13

Dude your car is insane, enjoi the f*&K out of it

diamondblak05

Regardless if a car was properly tuned or not, documented or not, resale value will still suffer if it's not stock. Especially during a trade-in, dealers will actually deduct value from your car since it's not stock and the parts are not factory certified. Only those true car enthusiats will buy a car that is highly modified for the right amount. Other than that, expect to lose alot of money. That's why we see tons of stuff on ebay!

Comment to dragonAMG....though your car may have bids up to $76K, does that really mean the high bidder will actually buy it for that amount? Maybe he was just testing the reserve price or bid just for the heck of it. A tuned car on sale directly from Brabus/Kleeman/Renntech is a different story compared to a tuned car on sale from a private owner.

KompressorKev

mods can be great, but don't expect much Return On Investment. when reselling it, i.e. the parts or the car itself, don't expect that parts will command a premium...if they DO in any way, it's because you have some rare modifications, which in the first place, you probably paid a lot to begin with. if you have a full Brabus catalog spec car, like a full C55 6.1S conversion, sure it will command a premium over other C55's, but you cannot sell it anywhere near what you paid Brabus for it. in addition, if things are so rare to begin with, there probably isn't a market for it later on. if people can afford to pay what you paid, they will get it new themselves. in the mercedes market, it is hard to profit, because eitiher 1) they are dime a dozen, or 2) there is no market for your asking price to break even. things are hard to sell becasue the community is not super active. however, in general you lose less if you "part out" your car when you sell it, i.e.
you pay for your enjoyment in feeling performance gains or having a car customized your way.


BOTTOM LINE: chances are you will not break even financially...you can sell your parts or you can sell a fully customized car, but in the end, you will have lost some money. plan it out, and set a budget for yourself, and don't get carried away. in the end, do whatever is best for your personal enjoyment, and don't look for a monetary ROI. personal enjoyment

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in my case though: EVERY single thing i have done / every part i ever have had on my car has had a problem in some way or form. the ONLY thing on my car that has not had some problem, be it mechanical/physical or just a headache issue, is the w211 turn mirror signals, and i am not exaggerating at all. either being charged wrong, to lag, to install issues, to getting the wrong part, to the littlest of things you think couldn't possibly go wrong, to even the point where my electrical system died and i LOST my electrical warranty. it's not like i went the cheap way, i bought all the best quality parts i could and didn't take shortcuts, but still things can (and unfortunately did) go wrong.

i spent what i think is a lot of money on upgrading/maintaining the car, easily over 10k when you add everything up. i know many people have spent a lot more, some probably $40-50k in mods alone, but i think around $13k is a significant investment for anyone. little things you don't notice will add up very very quickly. but to me, it really doesn't seem like the return reflects the investment. my car doesn't look worth what i've put into it, and at times it's certainly been a headache. when you look at it, nothing indicates that i've spent that much, whether it's the look, the performance, or the pleasure i've gained from having a modified car. it's a poor ROI a lot of times. sometimes i do enjoy my car but was it worth it for the money? no. would i do it again? no.

i'm definitely not gonna stop modding cars in the future but i think i am through with this mercedes. w203 wasn't the best platform to begin with in my case. i like to modify cars with idea of keeping in line with what the manufacturer intended the car to be. c32 being a pretty quick cruiser, and not a race car (being automatic, less than ideal handling, doesn't look the part), i tried to make it a little cleaner, a little more agressive, and a little bit nicer by going a more appearance-oriented theme...my reason was that i thought it was safer (fewer problems) to go this way instead of performance route, but any way you mod it, things CAN go wrong. when i do modify cars later, i will go a different route, i.e. i will go the performance route.

the c55 is an awesome car. if you do modify it, my suggestion is to go with performance mods, do it once and do it right. some headers, exhaust, maybe an ecu tune, suspension setup (done cleanly and right), small painting / color coordination here and there would be nice. a nice simple, quality audio system like Reus would be a nice addition too. and don't mind spending a little bit more for quality stuff, because you want to leave as little room for error as possible, because Murphy's law seems to have been discomfortingly valid in my case.

i don't mean to dissuade you from tuning your car though. i love cars and fixing them up is still my hobby. tuning is a waste if you don't get enjoyment out of it, because ROI is personal, and it's relative, not just financial. but financially, tuning isn't the smartest thing to do. if it is of value to you, however, then go for it. just realize that in the end, do what you will get enjoyment out of, and keep it safe.

dragonAMG

and thanks I plan to!

Of course... I couldn't expect to trade it in and get anything more than wholesale... but I know that I can definitely sell the car pp for 80k if I wanted to.

diamondblak05

I couldn't agree more with what you said. My brother is going thru a similar story. He got his Accord all tuned out...must have spent over $7K on it! But every now and then, things keep popping out creating problems. I assume he must've spent another $2-3K fixing those problems...and they don't stop either. He fix one problem, another one pops out. But in the end, it brings a smile to his face everytime he drives it. That's what counts the most.

2QUIK4U

Great points. Although, it is not about a return on your investment, but much rather how can you tune a car without losing a ton of money at the end of the day. I think Dragonamg made a valid point that by going with a reputable shop (i.e. Kleemann, Brabus, Renntech, MKB, etc.) you can mitigate your losses to some extent, but on the flipside having a Renntech supercharger installed is going to set you back quite a ways.

I also agree with the concept that this is a hobby and like one of you said, hobbies aren't always cheap. However, money is money, and it is always nice when you can recoup your costs when you decide to sell. Hence, I am trying to figure out the best means of achieving this. Maybe it is going the route that Dragon did with Kleemann. Alternatively, I am thinking of only installing AMG Manufaktur parts. Yes, they are ridiculously expensive (LSD costs~$4000), but nobody can argue that these parts could be detrimental to longevity as they potentially could argue with other tuners. My point is, that by installing a part that has the AMG stamp of approval on it, you not only know exactly what you are getting, but you are truly adding something "beneficial" to the vehicle. Consequently, the value of the vehicle should increase. Let me ask you this question, if there are two C55s, both identical in terms of mileage, options, etc. (ceteris paribus). However, one had a number of AMG Manufaktur mods, let's say for the sake of this example it had the safety car wheel, LSD, shift upgrade, nuerburgring suspension. Let's also say that for round numbers the total value of these mods was 10,000. How much more would you be willing to pay for the car with the mods?

KompressorKev

point well taken 2QUIK4U. i'm talking about Return on Investment with respect to several aspects: personal enjoyment (and value), and financial. financially, i do agree that going something reputable will mitigate losses a bit, but naturally there will still be loss. that is why i think it's good to focus on personal enjoyment and the value it provides. AMG Manufaktur i think will provide that value more than other brands. i went with brabus and hre, i would consider those reputable but also i understand that they are really dime a dozen, you see them EVERYWHERE and thus they are not in that much demand because the supply's been flooded. they are not special by any means. also has to do with the type of modifications i did, which were somewhat pointless. in my case, i just find it a little bit frustrating in my case, nothing's special about my car and it doesn't reflect the money spent, and my enjoyment out of it hasn't increased, in fact it's been quite a constant headache. i didn't spend to the point where it was different enough to command a price premium, but spent just enough to where it hurts but just isn't quite good enough... if i were to redo my car, i'd do it something like how you listed a C55 would be done, if such mods existed for my car.

i think part of the trick is to do something nobody's really done. thus i think DragonAMG's car can command a premium, not necessarily just from the fact that it's done by Kleemann, for which i have high regard and do recognize it is a great outfit, but i think more because it's a 550hp C-class. you don't hear about many 550hp C-class in the world. let alone 11-second street tire C-class (or any european entry-level chassis), running on pump gas full street weight! that is an amazing feat DragonAMG btw, i must congratulate you!

i think AMG Manufaktur can command some premium as well, because it's rare and an untapped market, plus it's official and in-house exclusive, but overall, i still think that money will be lost, some brands may lessen that loss. AMG Manufaktur would be a great outfit to go with.

i think if i were looking to buy a used C55, same everything else, for the one with AMG Manufaktur steering wheel, LSD, shift upgrade, and suspension, i'd probably pay about 4-5.5k more personally. out of $10k you hypothetically spent, that's not bad for on your part financially. thus to answer your original question, i don't think tuning is always a waste of money. a waste of money is relative to the value you have ascribed to what you've done to your car. you could spend 50k in mods and be delighted with it, or spend 2k and regret it. i just wanted to warn about the potential pitfalls of getting bit by this "mod bug," cause some mornings you'll wake up and think, **** where's my money gone and see (in my case) the result is less than satisfying and doesn't reflect your monetary investment. i wish you luck with tuning your C55, and i hope you are satisfied with and enjoy the results of your choices

OZC32AMG

Ahh, 1 dollar?

FrankW

agree with all of above.

dragonAMG

Great input and I truly think you hit the nail on the head. Very intelligent and well thought out reply.

BTW -- thanks! I think it's entirely possible that I might have the fastest w203 in the states.

Zeppelin

Buying a Mercedes is a waste of money when you can buy a Honda Civic.

dragonAMG

haha... *** JDM

ash-c32

careful - I love Modded skylines, if done properly they are fantastic driving machines comfortably capable of being tuned to 500bhp without too many problems.

m444

Here is a link to a conversation about the Honda civic vs Mercedes, by a bunch of investers. There are 139 responses, so far.

Several responses about how great the new Honda Civic Si is.


http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...tConvSeq=45569

Here they really start the civic si discussion (around response 81):

http://socialize.morningstar.com/New...eq=81#replyTop

dragonAMG

I was just joking by referencing a post by Vader regarding his new front license plate - https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....4&postcount=13