Honest AMG vs M opinions needed...please
 

I posted the following on a BMW M3 site and would be curious as you would all respond as compared to an M3 enthusiast:

OK, first off, let me say that I am a tried and true BMW enthusiast. I own a 73 tii that I will never sell, and have had a few, non-motorsports BMW's in my day. That being said, my wife has had 2 MB's now, and I must say, as down as some people are on them, I find that they are really a good car.

Now that that is out of the way, I am in the market for a daily driver and am considering (what I consider a dream car) e46 M3. In looking for the right car, my friend let me drive a clk55 which led to testing a c55, and I have to be honest I was VERY impressed with the car. I understand this is a BMW board, so enthusiasts will be posting here, but I would like to know what those that have owned them as drivers think, and no, not track drivers. In testing extensively the M3, I have found the 19's a bit "choppy" and the noise a bit "harsh" at times. Understand, this is what I love in a car, but for a "daily driver" can this become too much? Can the car be driven in traffic without too much "raucous"? As I'm getting older, in my 30's now, I find my time limits me from tracking the car as much as I might have at a younger age. I live in L.A., so traffic is of some concern as well.

Contrastingly, I find the benefits and set-backs for each below:

M3:
Aggressive styling
an aggressive 3 series....yum.
Go-Kart driving that rewards itself when you can take advantage of it.
too boy racer?
handling, handling, handing
speed and power, when you can take advantage of it
2 seater, a bit cramped rear. (wife only, no rear window for dog)
better mpg
I-6

c55:
a very good looking car/design
is that nose longer than a standard c? wow!
relaxed (mature?) driving. power when u need it
sleeper?
it handles well, but for the avg joe, good enough. for the track...well...
TORQUE!
4 door family car.
lower mpg
v8

neither car is a successor to my tii, and unfortunately, neither is the new 1ser, a car I was seriously considering, till it put on too many pounds. I am looking for a bit of comfort, some speed when I need it, some modern convenience, neither is a honda, but a bit of reliability in a performance car is nice. I think both of these car offer that. I know neither will be a bargain for brakes, and oil change, etc...

Regarding the slush-box is horrible talk, all said, thats exactly what this is really about. To drive daily, is the M3 comfortable enough, (SMG not an option for me due to my fears of its reliability)forgiving enough to warrant an everyday un-climactic(?) trip to work and back.

Both cars have their merits, so please save the fan-boy talk. If you want to get Rah-Rah, I'll vote BMW everytime. You can telll I want the BMW to win out, but I want the opinion of someone who has owned the car, and has credibility, that can actually offer me some good advice.

I would really appreciate an honest and mature answer.

thanks

This has been discussed many times on this board.. Try to serach it...
I went with C55 cuz it was a lot more comfty and powerful.

I went from a 99 M3 to an 02 M3 to an 06 C55, and I havent looked back. I made a similar post here when I was considering my C55 a few months ago, do a search for it.

Bottom line, the C55 does everything better than the M3 (comfort, speed, driveability, refinement, luxury features, build quality, etc) EXCEPT delivering the feel of the road. Both cars provide FAR more "handling" than I need, but the M3 just feels tighter on the road. Nothing feels like an M3 around a turn, it just empowers the driver, whereas the C55, you feel a bit less in control.

Nevertheless, for a daily driver, 9.9 times out of 10, I would recommend the C55.

Agree with everything Rory posted.

I use the C55 as my daily driver, and I can transport my family with 2 car seats in the back. I also use it as my occasional track car.

From a handling point of view, all the numbers indicate that the M3 and C55 are actually VERY CLOSE, with the M3 having a slight edge (both cars have the same laptime (8:22 minutes) around the Nuburgring as tested by Sport Auto; and the C55 is only 0.3 seconds behind the M3 CS in a head to head test on the 1.8 mile Bedford autodrome track when tested by Evo magazine). You can look up skidpad grip and slalom speeds on R&T, C&D, MT, etc, and you'll also see that the E46 M3 and C55 numbers are again VERY close. Objectively, there is no data to support that the M3 blows the C55 away in terms of handling. It's really all a myth many car enthusiasts just assume.

Where the M3 clearly wins is the SUBJECTIVE feel for the driver when pushing the car in a turn. The C55 has a bit more body roll than the M3 (which does not inspire as much confidence) with heavy cornering, but it doesn't really lose that much in absolute grip. Also, magazines often criticize 2 other things about the C55 when compared to the E46 M3: the automatic gearbox that doesn't shift as quickly as you want in manual mode, and the ESP system that cannot be completely defeated, which means you can only slide the rear out so far before the system interferes. But that amount of oversteer angle that is allowed when you press ESP Off is quite generous, from my own experiences on a track.

I can tell you from personal experience that the C55 can hang with a stock E46 M3 on a twisty track. I've passed some M3's while some M3's have passed me. In other words, it's really a driver's race, NOT that the M3 is so much faster around the turns on a track.

Another fact that many people don't realize: The fuel consumption on a E46 M3 is not much better than the C55. Don't automatically assume that the 5.4L V8 consumes a lot more gas than the high reving 3.2L I6 in everyday driving. Look up the fuel consumption numbers if you don't believe me.

Great point. I get about the same mileage as I did with the M3. MAYBE 1-2mpg less, but its not really that noticeable.

The M3 IS comfortable enough for daily driving, but a few things the C55 has over it:

- better acceleration
- smoother acceleration - you have to rev the m3 sky high to go anywhere, whereas with the c55, you just hit the gas and go. much more convenient for changing lanes, passing people, cutting over quickly after a green light, etc.
- smoother ride
- everything on the interior is better - nav has more options and is quicker, heated seats better, seats are way better (in terms of comfort and hold, the c55 seats are SICK), auto climate control, 4doors, better stereo (sound and features)...the list keeps going
- more resistance to dings and chips in the front bumper - in my experience the mbz paint is much more durable
- headlights - NO comparison, the M3's lights sucked

I mean really, everything I can think of, the C55 does better. This is coming from a guy that owned 2 M3's and was ALWAYS the "m3's are the perfect car for me" type dude. Nothing else could ever come close to an M3, until I drove the C55.

I really think the differentiators with the m3 are:

- full maintenance included
- 1/2 mpg better
- better loaner car program (although this depends on your dealer)
- driver/road connection
- "M3 styling" - this can be good or bad. The M3 stands out on the road, even though there are a million out there (vs the c55 which you never see and is much rarer), it has a mean look to it that people recognize. This also gets you some negative attn, it has a very "racerboy" look to it. I do wish the C55 had a couple vents, or just a bit more that would distinguish it from a regular c-class, but at the end of the day, its certainly not a big deal.

Everything else goes to the C55 really.

go with the C55 you'll love it:y.

I'd guess that almost all of the C55 owners in the forum went through the same debate before buying. The things that swayed me included:
tourque
handling - not as precise as M3 but not far off the mark
seats - great grip and surprising comfort
not quite as edgy and peaky as M3 - a better good daily driver
tourque
interior design and layout
did I mention instant tourque?
appearance - far more elegant, less boy-racer, real sleeper
4 doors and liveable back seats
V8 rumble

True confessions - there's a M Roadster in the garage for those days when I need something edgy and peaky. I might have made a different decision if I wanted a car for both daily use and autocross. The C55 has done well at autocross - it's no slacker - but isn't QUITE as much fun as the BMW.

etowns - what sort of feedback are you getting on the BMW forum? Would you hsare a link?

I'll chime in. When I bought my c55 I didn't even consider the e46 because by comparison it is a dog, much like the s4 due to the HUGE lack of torque.You know it's true.

Further, if you look at lap times they're really close handling wise, although they do it in quite a different feel and fashion. ON a tighter course the better m3 turn in wins likely due to the c55's smaller front rims and tires and wierd geometry.

That said, I didn't want a stick after having a 996 at the same time and have heard horror stories about the smg freaking out. Additionally, with all of the HUGE problems the m3's and BMW's in general have service wise, it was a no brainer. All BMW's I have owned M series have had problems and have been a HUGE fight with the dealers to have them honor thier warranties. I'm just not into that BS.

buy what makes you happy.. or what you need.

If you need the razor sharp handling and brakes.. M

if you need a 4 door car with torque C55...

its really up to what you need .. regardless of our opinions.

Wow, thanks all...
 

I am so glad this didn't turn into the flame war I thought it would. Both fourms turned out very informative posts (link here) I am appreciative to all those that gave their opinions.

Once I remove the lust factor that I have for the M3, ultimately, I think the c55 is the more sensible purchase of the two for me...and not really a compromise, as it is just as able as the M3 for my uses. The c55 actually makes me think more of the original e28 M5, a personal favorite, not much difference in looks from other e28's thus a GREAT sleeper and commuter. The subtleties of the c55 are awesome. PC Valkyrie and rory breaker made me research a bit more and come to find out the mileage from the v8 doesn't fall as short as i though it would have. Interesting, as I thought the c55 would burn alot more fuel. (must have been those c63 10/12mpg numbers I was thinking about).

A bit of research before posting would have been prudent, but the tailored answers to my questions I found helpful from both forums. Thank you for your time and patience. The search for the right c55 starts today.

best,
etowns

M3 = more fun when driven HARD, tons of mods available
AMG = more sedate & comfy fast sedan, mods are stupidly priced & there's not much selection

Steering feel is non-existent in the AMG, but straight line stability is excellent (at least til the front end bushings start to wear, then it slowly deteriorates, and mine started showing signs of wear at about 20k miles). Many little practical items are nicer for day to day use on the AMG & some details are better designed. Paint can be brittle, and chip easily, and spoilers fall off. Some paint can be spotty on cars I've seen (and thin & orange peeled). They have a fair share of electrical problems too, but many software updates fixed most of the ones I experienced.

Both have similar perf, but the AMG wins the power race & a good driver in an M3 wins the handling one without having to "manhandle" the car like the AMG sometimes requires. Overall I'm talking more driver style & use here that make the diff. The AMG's do have a problem putting down their power due to lack of a limited slip diff & narrow rear tires for the level of torque.

Another item to consider is if either car still has a warranty, which dealer is better in your area (mechanics, not sales). My local MBZ dealer (South Bay MBZ in Manhattan beach & Torrance, CA) is horrible. They can't seem to find or fix problems half the time, they almost always add new scratches to the car and tell you "NPF" half the time. Also, some will void your warranty if you mod _anything_ on your car & a problem arises later (even if they conveniently ignored the mods when nothing was wrong). MBZ dealers have also been noted to search forums for mods owners talk about to use as evidence to deny warranty claims. Overall, pretty sleazy...

My local BMW dealer wasn't much better, so I left 'em both and bought a different 3rd car now. Pick your poison. Just don't believe the BS the sales guys tell you about what they'll do for you later, unless you get it in writing. My sales guy promised me a new C55 after my 3rd shop visit in the first week of ownership since mine was a lemon... ask me if that ever happened. Mine was the biggest POS I've ever owned.

Just for the record, everyone says that the M is more of a drivers car that's more involving but I'm not sure about you all but here when I drive my car it's in traffic and don't carve up twisties on the way to work.

Since I bought a dedicated track car this past Fall (1988 944), I have actually grown more fond of my C32. It's all about matching the tool to the mission. For my daily driver, I need a comfortable, reliable, safe car, that looks good and projects a professional image. I commute to and from work, and run errands. I sit in traffic, drive on interstates, and on a rare occasion get to drive on nice, open roads.

I like my daily driver to handle better than average, but in truth, I'll NEVER use the car's handling limits on the street, so handling is a "feel good" concept that does not matter much (like an SUV's ability to go off road).

I don't need high HP, but the C32's power is probably the frivolity that I enjoy the most. Nothing beats squirting out of traffic or jumping into fast traffic at ridiculous closing rates.

Everything that the M3 does better than the C32/C55 has to do with tactile feel and handling/braking limits, none of which matter much to me. Back when I was using the car on-track, it might have mattered, but not now. In some ways, it's a waste to own an M3 and NOT use it on track; whereas a C55 is really optimized for street use.

This whole line of analysis has given me a greater appreciation for the AMG image. It's not necessarily a no-holds-barred track machine; but for the ultimate performance under civilian conditions, it's hard to beat.

Couldn't have said better myself Fifth:

The ONLY thing I miss about my M was its tracking capability, PERIOD.

Its lack of bottom end punch, ANYTHING below 4000 rpm was VERY dispointing on the street. It was a fun DRIVERS car, but for daily usage, I will GLADLY take my C32 over it anyday. IF it was my only car, I could have lived with the M, but thats another story.

I like the AMG's power, ride, and creature comforts WAY better then my M's, which REALLY did make you work to enjoy it.

As you siad, its all about what you wont out of the car. For me, I will NEVER go back to BMW's knowing what AMG has to offer, for about the same amount of money. I can truely say, that the AMG IS the finest ALL around performing car that I have ever driven and there will always be atleast one in my driveway.

See yeah:zoom:

We should note, however, that AMGs seem to depreciate more quickly than BMW "M" class cars. There just isn't as much of an AMG following as you have with the Ms. So buy used.

Having owned many BMW cars and then a C32, I modded the crap out of my C32 in the hunt for happiness. I came away from the experience at a run-not-walk pace back to BMW. Handling and road feel are way more important to me than torque and straight-line stability, and I found suspension mods to be ineffective at closing the gap between the two. By the time I sold my C32, it could easily take an E46 M3 both on the street and the track - but that great overall performance did not make up for the loss of that feeling of wielding a scalpel you get in a BMW. A fast W203 feels more like a velvet-covered sledgehammer.

Your situation sounds more suited to the C55 than the E46 M3. However, it will never "feel" as good as an M3 (purely subjective). Don't let Nurburgring lap times sway you if handling is a priority, because you will feel it every day at a normal 6/10th - 7/10th "spirited" pace on the street.

Fifth secretly works for AMG. :)

Worded perfectly!

Okay m3_eater, explain a little please:nix:

Your own words "my C32, it could easily take an E46 M3 both on the street and the track" What do you miss?

Is it the lack of interior design/space? The harsher ride? The BORING dash? Or simply could you not live without the pathetic clutch that wears out after a hard days abuse at the track? You have me VERY confused, as I to owned both a M3 and a M roadster with the E46 with a VERY different feeling about them.

Yes, driving the M on a VERY twisty road was rewarding, if you have no passengers like wife or kids. And yes the M makes a MUCH more appealing exhaust sound at 8000 rpm, but them reality sets in and you are only under those conditions for about 1% of the time, at least in PA.

I agree with you about the feel, but for a daily driver, or as I said the other 99% of the time, I AM GLAD I WENT WITH THE AMG.

Oh well, you say potatoe, I say POTATO

See yeah:zoom:

I've posted my story on this board (search for my username if you want more detail).

In short... I went from an 03 M3 (SMG) to an 02 C32 and have not regretted the decision one bit. They are two different cars though and a tough comparison, 4 door automatic sedan vs 2 door coupe manual. Honestly, if I was in a different position and didn't have a family of 5, I might go for one of the new model M3s.

My opinion, you can't go wrong with either one. I find the C55 more family friendly (4dr and auto), very comfortable, smooth around town, and an overall better bargain for the money. You'll have fun running against M3s and M5s often as there are more of them on the road and once they see you they'll want to play. The sound of the V8 is totally awesome at high speeds, downshifting etc...

I have to agree with you in spirit, because I think we are both speaking the truth, i.e. facts and honest opinions. However, it really comes down to two sides of the same coin. The BMW is a sports car with some luxury. The MB is a luxury car with some sport. I've decided that the rawness of the Bimmer appeals to me more than the refinement of the Benz. Furthermore, I absolutely loved the utilitarian, cockpit-like dash of the E46 M3, which you call boring. I really grew to dislike the dash and HVAC/nav controls in the C32. I think the C55 is a huge step up in interior from the C32, though.

However, I have to admit that perhaps my comparison was unfair on a significant level: I've always owned BMWs with manual transmissions. If you are accustomed to heel-and-toe and then go to a s..l...o....w shifting C32 auto-manual (that also refuses to upshift on demand when at WOT), you get really annoyed at the lack of control. I guess I'm just a control freak. I want to do it myself, even if the car is faster when using its automatic capabilities.

I do miss the Benz sometimes. I especially miss 100mph-165mph pulls:v:

Actually thats a good point.

I would equate the M3's dash to the C32...and maybe even put the M3 a notch higher. Im not a fan of the C32 interior at all....I first test drove a C32 and C55 back to back, first the 55, then I stepped in the 32 (which I thought I would like more since I enjoy FI cars) and immediately upon getting in the 32, I knew right away, no way would I buy this car unless it was a smokin deal. The cluster and look to the dash was out of the early 90's.

The C55 interior on the other hand...WAY better than both the M or the C32.

I had both the C32 and E46M3 in mind when purchasing but due to needing auto the choice was obvious but I think the M3 has a better more exotic look to it while the Benz smaller siblings pretty much look like it but I would stick to Benz now. Only the bigger Ms impress me now. I say like others have already buy what you need in a daily driver especially keep in mind if you really need the 4dr then the choice is obvious. In our roads straight line performance works better since there are not alot of twisty roads. The C55 won't dissapoint!

Okay, you got me on this one, I DO MISS HAVING A CLUCTH:mercy:

And I do agree, that we really do agree, but I have to ask, you actually liked the M's dash? It was just TOO BORING for me. I guess I like my little tokyo NAV and steering wheel buttons to play with, its the kid in me.

See yeah, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS:zoom: