bobby02c32AMG

How is the C32 on the track(not drag)? How do you guys like the handling, acceleration, braking, etc...? Some people say that these cars are just not track cars, they are just big power overpriced cars that can run a fast 1/4 mile. For those of you who track your cars, how do you like em? How do you like the performance of them compared to either other cars you have tracked, other cars in its class, or just other cars in general? I have not tracked mine yet cause I just got it about two months ago and I dont have all the mods that i want yet. I am used to tracking an E36 M3 (not too much tracking time, just two times), so what do you think I am going to like/dislike about the C32 on the track? I am real exited to take it out to the track just to see if its as good as I think it will be!! So can I get from you guys any feedback, tips, comparisons, results, experiences, or just some opinions about tracking a C32? Any other info about the C32 on the track or info on tracking it would help me out a lot. Also one more thing, what mods(mainly suspensino/brake/tires) would you guys recommend for me(not very experienced with the C32 & not very experienced at the track)?
Sorry to make this so long but I am very curious about how the C32 AMG performs on the track.
Thanks,
see ya

OZAMG

I had mine on the track 3 weeks ago and as a standard setup they are a big unsteerer. I ran with ESP on and off didnt seem to make muck difference. With ESP off I nailed the gas out of a tight left and as it went sideways ESP applied brake to a front wheel. If I were going to any serious track time I would definitely add an LSD and switch to dyno mode. Brakes were ok the peddal started to go long after about 3 laps but it still stopped with confidence.

Since then I have fitted a KMac front camber/castor kit will have to wait till next time on the track to check this out. Hope this helps

MRAMG1

Check out my post on a lap at Beaverun. I think you will be VERY happy with the C's handeling abilities my friend. YES it does suffer from a slight understeer, but this can be corrected with a good alignment and a few washers to add MUCH needed negative camber up front. I have personaly passed MANY M's, and use to own one myself. YES the M is a slightly better track car, aka posi and better weight distribution, but it lacks on power, IMHO. Read my posts and go hit the track, you will NOT be disapointed

See yeah

PS: Stay away from Kmac bushing, in the words of my crew chief running a 540, and a M3 "They are JUNK" The full blown race peices are okay, but they are a SOLID bushing which is NO good for the street, aka TRACK ONLY piece.

Newzchspy

[QUOTE=MRAMG1;2935349]Check out my post on a lap at Beaverun. I think you will be VERY happy with the C's handeling abilities my friend. YES it does suffer from a slight understeer, but this can be corrected with a good alignment and a few washers to add MUCH needed negative camber up front. I have personaly passed MANY M's, and use to own one myself. YES the M is a slightly better track car, aka posi and better weight distribution, but it lacks on power, IMHO. Read my posts and go hit the track, you will NOT be disapointed

I agree with MRam, my C32 is an understeering beast. It has more than enough power BUT the "front end pushes" a LOT. I've had front drivers (Olds SCX) that did not understeer as much. If you can dial in some camber, get the right tires, you'll be OK, but you wont get the handling of the M cars without any mods to the C32. Note that you can get the car to oversteer if you stay on the gas before the apex (power-on oversteer), but as soon as you let off, the car will start to "push."

dkflipse

Can't comment on the track, but for certain not overpriced when you can easily get one for $18K.

PC Valkyrie

The C32 is not supposed to be track star, but that doesn't mean you can't take it to the track and still have a good time. A track is still the only safe place where you can truly take advantage of the performance of your car, whether it is acceleration or handling.

If you stick by the principle of "slow in, fast out", you will be fine. In other words, just make sure your entry speed into a corner is slow in enough to not cause excessive understeer so you can concentrate on hitting the apex. The way to make up for a slower entry speed is to nail it to get as perfect of an exit as possible. The C32 has so much torque that you should be able to pull out of corners very quickly......but the key is hitting that apex so you can go back on the throttle as soon as possible. Just remember that exit speed is actually more important than entry speed into a corner when it comes to laptimes.

Obviously, driving the right racing line will make a ton of difference too. And grippier tires will make a big difference too.

Fifth Ring

I agree with all of the above. Unstagger the tires, get the best tires you can, and do what you can about alignment. It may never have the "feel" of a BMW, and it obviously will never have a manual transmission; but it is so close in performance that driver talent can easily overcome the understeer.

Nobody has mentioned the brakes. With race-quality brake pads, the brakes are very good and can stand up to track use.

I turn my ESP off. I would rather have a little wheel spin coming out of a tight corner than to have the brakes clamp down on the fun.

bobby02c32AMG

Are you saying DO NOT have staggered wheel/tires when tracking?
What Kind of Wheel/Tire Combo would you recommend for someone like me?
And about the brakes, they are Brembo's right? Are the stock brakes and brake pads ok or would you say that race-quality pads would be a must have? If they are what kind of pads would you suggest?
Thanks
And thanks to everyone else for the responses and help, keep em coming!!
Cya

MRAMG1

Right on Fifth

I personaly like and use the Bridgestone 050 PP's, VERY sticky, but don't expect them to last very long. Brakes, stock pads work well, however I currently have EBC RED stuff and REALLY like them. If you are SERIOUS about tracking, aka more than twice a year, move up to EBC Yellow stuff. NO one else makes a race worthy pad for our cars sadly. Tire rack can't even get ANY recomended track pads if you talk to them.

See yeah

AWDman

Tim at porterfield can hook you up with raybestos ST 43 or r4. st43 is good to 1400 deg F and long lasting.

hooleyboy

this may not make sense but i will give it a shot. If i can give a bit of a tip on tracking your car on a road course you should be done with braking just before you hit the turn and then still have enough momentum to carry you though the turn with not brake or gas. kinda costing though the turn until you hit you acceleration line. when you brake or accelerate in a turn it can cause you to loose you line and that is were problems happen. In my C55 when i come up to a hard turn i brake before i hit the turn then coast though the turn having the motor hang in the rpm band then get on it when i know i wont have to lift until the next turn. So once you start gassing it you want to be at a point were you don't have to stop gassing until the next turn. here is a pic of what I'm talking about.

bobby02c32AMG

wow that info is awesome! It really helps me a lot. So do you follow the right line or the racing line? If you have anymore tips/pics, I would love to see and learn how to drive the lines in specially in the Benz. I tracked my other car a couple times in the past but with an instructor helping me out by telling me how to follow the lines, so i was listening to him more than actually learning the lines. So if you or anyone else has any advice for me i would very much appreciate it!!
outski

greasybenz

I joined the NASA group and am going to track my C32. Im going to take their group 1 course where they have an experienced race driver teach you how to properly run your car across the track.

Ill let you know my experience when ive done a few track days.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/index.html

kindafast

MRAMG did you buy that roadster recently? I just noticed it in your car I drive. I read your beaver run posts, I hope I could go to a track with you sometime

PC Valkyrie

I'm sure the other trackies here will agree with me in saying that the diagram you show and your description of "coasting" and "gas" are incorrect if you want the fastest way around a 90 degree turn.

The ideal racing line around a curve on a dry track is never as straight as that diagram shows. It is more of a gradual arc (ideally the largest diameter arc you can achieve) rather than a sudden sharp turn as you show. To achieve that sudden turn you show in the diagram, you have to slow the car a whole lot more than if you had a more gentle arc to hit the apex.

And you never, ever, "coast" on a track. Your right foot should be doing one of 3 things: 1)full throttle on the straights and when exiting a turn after the apex, 2)maximum threshold braking before a turn, or 3)"feathering" the throttle to keep the car balanced after you brake before a turn and then gradually increase throttle as you exit the turn and unwind the steering wheel.

If you're doing anything else with your right foot, you're not maximizing the use of your car.

For those interested, I highly recommend reading the book "Going Faster" by Carl Lopez. It is from the Skip Barber Racing School. I found it VERY educational as you will appreciate all the theory behind maximizing your pace around a track. If you read this book before you go for your first driving education track day, you will learn so much more quickly and understand perfectly what your instructors are trying to teach you.

Basically there are 3 main things to learn in this order of importance:

1) Learn the ideal racing line for any particular track you are driving on
2) Learn to maximize your exit speed by gradually applying more throttle earlier when exiting a turn.
3) Learn to gradually brake later before the turn-in point while still slowing down enough to achieve proper turn in for a corner

Of course, if you are starting off, go slow and concentrate on the line.

hooleyboy

True those lines are not you ideal racing lines. I like to keep the rpms up when entering a turn making sure I'm in the right gear to hit the power band when accelerating out of the apex. Yeah definitely wouldn't say or didn't mean to imply a full on not touching anything feet off pedals coast. I just find it easier for beginners to brake in a strait line rather than trying to slow yourself down when your already in the turn. especially if your carrying to much speed and then try to brake that's when things can go wrong.

MRAMG1

No, I traded it in for my C32 back in 06. I really liked the oddity of it, and yes it was the E46 motor, but the clucth/milage/low end torque was VERY disapointing. Heck my full blown race car CRUSHED it in gas milage and it dynoed over 500 RWHP. As far as the track, come on up. I always enjoy ANYONE with ANY car as freindly fun/competion. WIN/LOOSE/DRAW I will always buy the beer afterwards

See yeah

Fifth Ring

With an understeering car, the simplest fix is to make sure you have at least as much grip up front as in back. MB made the C32 with wider rear tires. That actually contributes to understeer. I have changed my front wheels to C32 rear wheels so I'm running 245/40/17s all around.

Another "race" pad to consider is EBC Yellows.

OZAMG

Interesting - What camber do you run up front?

I recently installed KMac front camber kit with offset neoprene bushes max neg is 1.5deg due to the front tie rods being too short to allow more..

MRAMG1

What Kmac bushings do you buy, and do you like them. I haven't heard anything GOOD about them. How does it ride now. Oh yeah, 1.5 degrees negative is PLENTY. You will do just fine on ANY track my friend.

See yeah

OZAMG

I have had them in a couple of weeks, so far it has made a major improvement in turnin as well as mid corner balance. I fitted them because I wore the outside shoulders off both front tyres and this was only road miles. Now we have setuo good my shop will replace my tyres as soon as I can in there.

What have you heard about the KMac kit??

MRAMG1

My ex crew chief races BMW's. He bought ALL 3 sets for his 540, street, track, and race. He said the street kit was complete JUNK, and throw them out. The track kit are on his car, VERY noisy, and is NOT happy on how, or should I say how HARD they are to adjust. The race piece he did like, but cautioned that as they are a SOLID, spherical bearing, that they CAN NOT, aka should not , be used for a street driven car. At least on our lovly roads here in PA.

Keep me posted on how you like them please. I too wore the outside edges off my 32, at the track only, but used a great trick that one of the forum members taught me to get negative camber. Simply use a couple of washers on the lower spindle bolt, which pushes it out, and whala, you have negative camber. Worked like a charm, with NO decrease in ride quality, or should I say wife complaint catoagory

See yeah my friend

OZAMG

The KMac kit for the C32 was a replacement for both front and rear lower control arm bushes (4 bushes in all) the bushes have an offset standard size bolt giving up to 2.5 deg neg with longer tie rods. This kit does not use an undersized crank bolt like some others which is what attracted me to try it out. They are not as easy as say strut tower adjusters but still no harder than the camber adjusters in my shop owners C240

The bushes are neoprene not completely solid so I haven't noticed any degrading of the ride quality. The steering is much sharper on turn in.

The only thing that really pissed me off was that my dealer replaced the lower control arms at the last service because the bushes were split (a common problem I was told on the C class) at a cost of $1800. I could have saved myself over a grand if I replaced with KMac then DAM

I will let you know how they go as I only got to drive the car a week with then fitted. Wifey has been driving me around due to a knee re-construction. I did notice when she was driving she tended to wander left and right with the wheel. SO I think the sneeze factor has been greatly reduced.

OPM

I think some of you might have misunderstood the diagram. The red line “racing line” does NOT imply fastest line around the corner. It’s a racing/passing line. The yellowish line “right line” shows the driving/fastest line around that corner. It is not drawn well – the turn-in should have started earlier, the radius should have been bigger and exit should have been closer to the edge of the track, but it’s close enough to make a point. During HPDE one would try to follow yellow line. But in W2W with 2 cars coming down the straight the faster car in the back would use the red line to pass. Yes he’ll lose a lot of exit speed, but exit speed is not his priority. Unlike TT, W2W is all about getting or keeping the lead position. Lap time is irrelevant.

Coasting IS an important tool in your skills chest. Similar to trail-braking, coasting allows you not to over brake. Essentially there are 3 mid-corner actions that could be taken -- trail-braking, coasting or maintenance throttle. For flat grade terrain following general rules may apply: reducing radius corner = trail-braking; even radius corner = coast; increasing radius corner = maintenance throttle. Of course if the grade is not leveled or your car is not neutral the aforementioned rules might not be appropriate. Bottom line is this, unless your car has serious oversteer tendency (C55 doesn’t), you probably over braking on some of the corners if you feel the need to feather on every corner.

Next time you are at the track:
1) find a flat 90 degree corner
2) warm up – do a session
3) after a few laps on your 2nd session take that corner your usual way, but keep mental notes where and how hard you are braking
4) after a few laps on your 3rd session brake a bit later, or get off brakes a bit earlier. Turn in as usual and accelerate as usual. But coast in between – DO NOT feather.

All you are trying to do is carry a few more mph through the turn. I bet you will succeed. However, just in case, do it at the turn with lots of runoff room.

_

AWDman

i really like my k macs. you're correct re steering precision it transformed the car for me. also correct re sneeze factor, also middle lane ruts will make you move around some. but all in all a huge upgrade. does thump a bit but no squeeking you have to lube them well before installing.

those oem bushings are like $20 for fronts or rears - i know you need to buy either control or thrust arms as the bushing is not availabe separately. still, the parts are not that expensive i guess the majority what you paid must be labor cost.