noble309

I am also new to this forum and want to introduce myself.
My name is Scott Glace from Pittsburgh PA and I am look to step up to one of your fine AMG tuned autos.
I have been absorbing as much info as possible and came across something
that suprised me.
Two cars on Ebay have photos of the data plates, one a C36 built 11/94
and a C43 built 3/98.
The GVWR on the C43 was 4280 the GVWR on the C36 was 4410.
I always assumed the C36 was lighter. Since it was an early C36 could it be the old Auto was heavier or is the v8 a lighter motor?
Are the spring rates and swaybars the same?
Also I read that the gear ratios in the rear is the same. would that apply to the trans also? (5 Speed)

Thanks for you reply and I hope to be an active member of your forum soon.

Scott

Jons95c36amg

My 95 c36 has a iron block alum head I6 with a 4spd auto. Its the same lbs as a c43 which has a alum block alum head v8 with a 5spd auto. The c43 is a hair quicker from my experience.

E55 PWR

C36 is heavier. however you can easily take 100-150lbs out of a c36 without effecting comfort of the car. There isn't any reason why you can't get down to C43 weight (if not lighter).

John-in-Dallas

I think that those are gross vehicle weight figures that you are quoting - i.e. weight of the vehicle plus maximum load.

I believe that the curb weight (unladen) of the C43 is about 3,450 lbs, and the literature I've read states that it is about the same as the C36 due to the aluminum engine block in the C43 versus iron for the C36.

Therefore those numbers might imply that the C36 could carry more load. That could relate to springs or even tires.

I can't speak for the C36, but I think you'd like the C43! Good luck in your search.

noble309

Thanks for the reply

You gus are a great help
Yes it was gross weight thats kinda why I was also asking about spring rate. I was not sure if they backed down the rates thus taking the edge off (sounds like not the case.)
Another question regarding springs-- I have picked up on the different spring pads (1-4) to ajust the trim height.
I own an Alfa Spider and if you remove the spacer from the front spring pad you can bring the car to a euro trim height.
Question :Is the trim height different between the euro market cars and US.
If so is it something that can be done with a lower number spring pad.(like a 1)

Sorry for so many questions

E55 PWR

C36 is roughly 100lbs more (3,550, vs. C43s 3,450). Again b/c of cast iron block and a few other things.

HOWEVER, the C36 has the gearing advantage (3.07 vs. 2.82) thats why both cars are virtually idential in acceleration, if you drop the 100-150lbs in the C36 it would actually be faster than its C43 counterpart.

As far as weight removal there are many things you can do. spare wheel, tools, jack = 50lbs. The stock battery is a good 50-60lbs, if you get the odyssey battery thats a good 40-50lbs savings, so there alone you are almost at the 100lb mark. Do a resonator delete thats usualy a good 15-23lbs in weight savings (in my E55 it was roughly 23lbs). so thats already 125ish. Then do some other lightening like maybe crank pulley, high flow cat etc etc, you are right at the 150lb mark and the car will behave much better under braking, cornering, acceleration and etc.

ProjectC55

C43 has 3.06 final = advantage in 1/4 mile
C36 has 2.82 final = advantage after the 1/4 mile

In reality,the C43 is faster all around as witnessed last week at Captree and magazine #'s.

E55 PWR

C36 has 3.07 , i'm 100% sure of it as per MBUSA website (unless MBUSA website is wrong which is entirely possible). Not only that but the 1995/1996 4-speed transmission has much more aggressive gearing:

1st: 3.89 vs. 3.59
2nd: 2.25 vs. 2.19
3rd: 1.44 vs. 1.41
4th: 1.00 vs. 1.00
5th: N/A Vs. 0.83

noble309

Based on gearing that would be the case correct?
any issues with the 4 speed box?
Did they cure the underhood wiring issue by 96?
Also my Trim height questions any thoughts?
Thanks in advance for your reply

85Cosworth

The euro spec springs do lower the car a little bit. Not sure if the same can be accomplished by removing just the pads.
Unless you are at the drag strip, in my experience and opinion the acceleration of both cars is the same. There is barely if any noticable difference in the two. I had the same dilema when It came to getting one theese 2 cars. First and foremost was availability. Find one and drive one. Second consideration is I like the fact that the C36s motor is a 2.8l stripped and then reengineered by AMG and the C43 used more of hot rodding technique by dropping a off the shelf V8 into a small and light car.

ProjectC55

The info you have is incorrect. the C36 has 2.82 gears.

E55 PWR

The tranny ratios are correct, so either way they have roughly the same gearing. Has anyone tried to put 3.07 on a C36? any issues with ESP and etc?

either way. C36 & C43 are very close. If you were to take out a good 150lbs out of a C36 that would really make a big difference in its performance.

I'm curious about the 3.07 in C36. does anyone have any info on that, has it been tried? just curious. thx

ProjectC55

Talking about the diff not the tranny. And correction,2.87 gearing for the C36 diff.

noble309

What are the ratios of the other C class cars-any 3.56 ratios?

Also--What's the comp. ratio's on the
C36 six and the C43 eight.
I noticed the fuel guage on the C36 has a Premium fuel warning the C43 not.

Thanks again guys

E55 PWR

any idea on possiblity of putting 3.07 in C36 without doing tranny ECU reflash for higher gearing?

J Irwan

Let me help clarify with some of the information I posted before.

To my knowledge it affect most car with 5 speed electronic tranny from (1997 C36-1999 C43, CLK430, E430 as well).

The 1997 is the quickest and the has all the newer gadget such as Climate control unit, newer steering wheels, Seperated AMG script on the trunk (1995 and 1996 is one unit with black base)

here is the spec for C36 in US

1995 C36
3.6L I-6 DOHC
268 Hp/280lb-ft
4 speed auto
2.82 rear diff
older style steering wheel
older style climate control
number of car imported and sold in US: 444 (although I could sworn that the number used to be 538 or close to that last time I checked on MBUSA website ???

1996 C36
3.6L I-6 DOHC
268 Hp/280lb-ft
4 speed auto
2.82 rear diff
older style steering wheel
newer style climate control
number of car imported and sold in US: 338

1997 C36
3.6L I-6 DOHC
276 Hp/284lb-ft
5 speed auto
3.07 rear diff
newer style steering wheel (same styling as W208 CLK55)
newer style climate control
number of car imported and sold in US: 236

1998 C43
4.3L V-8 SOHC
302 Hp/302lb-ft
5 speed auto
3.07 rear diff
newer style steering wheel (same styling as W208 CLK55)
newer style climate control
Xenon/HID offered as option
number of car imported and sold in US: 579

1999 C43
4.3L V-8 SOHC
302 Hp/302lb-ft
5 speed auto
3.07 rear diff
newer style steering wheel (same styling as W208 CLK55)
newer style climate control
Xenon/HID offered as option
number of car imported and sold in US: 546

2000 C43
4.3L V-8 SOHC
302 Hp/302lb-ft
5 speed auto (tiptronic : P R N D - +)
3.07 rear diff
newer style steering wheel (same styling as W208 CLK55)
newer style climate control
Avantgarde grill came standard
Xenon/HID as standard equipment
number of car imported and sold in US: very rare and some says they were only 50 unit sold

The curb weight of C43 according to MBUSA is 3448 lbs
The curb weight of C36 according to MBUSa is 3550 lbs

PS: If you really looking for C36, I would go with 97.
Also it would help if you could buy it from an enthusiast that really maintain and have all service record history of the car.


Hope this helps.
Regardz,


J Irwan

E55 PWR

actually I am avoiding 97 b/c people say the 5speed is really weak
the 4 speed is bulletproof so thats the one i'd chose, im willing to give up the extra gear for more strength.

now can anyone answer my question regarding the diff upgrade. its roughly an 8.8% upgrade in gearing from 2.82 - 3.07 , is that within the threshhold of ESP or is it going to cause problems? thx

85Cosworth

I disagree with saying the tranny is weak on the 97. Its all about maintenance. Maintain it and it will give you no problems.

E55 PWR

??????????????????????????

ProjectC55

Did you or are you purchasing a C36 or something? Curious.

E55 PWR

yes thats why I want to know

ProjectC55

And give up the E55? Guess you have your reasons. I say go 43 or CLK55

noble309

J Irwan thanks-Cleared a few things up.
I remember reading a road test of the 95 when it came out and it mentioned the front calipers were from a 600 sl and rear from a 500e.
Somebody on the board mentioned the the 95's brakes were expensive to replace.
Did MB go to a different setup in 96?

Also is it me or would you not remove the power and rev killing belt driven fan and go with an electric. It is a proven better setup.

Thanks everyone and E55 I hope you get your question answered

steve s

the 4-speed makes the engine sound like somebody's snoring when cruising... just a personal peeve..

donno, seems as tho different people have different setup.. most have the 4-piston fixed calipers. unfortunately, mine came with large single piston sliding ate calipers. even the database at the dealer shows i'm not supposed to have this. oh well, whatever.. maybe that's why i always felt the pedal feel to be somewhat mushy

J Irwan

Regarding the brake
Only 95 C36 has all the brake parts comes with HWA part number (front and rear).
Which is really expensive.
Some of the tell-sign on the 95 C36.
1. Front 4 piston fixed caliper has //AMG embossed on the caliper.
2. Rear rotor is venter


On 96-97 C36(s) MB changed the brake parts (cost saving I am assuming) Regular MB part number
These part are shared with other car (i.e the rear brake are shared with E430, E420, etc)
1. Front 4 piston fixed-caliper is similar to 95 C36 dimension and to my knowledge these caliper is not shared with any other models
2. Rear rotor is solid disc

95 C36 AMG has 320mm front rotor
96-97 C36 AMG has 316mm front rotor

and if you have a 95 C36, good luck finding aftermarket.
Since the rotor is 320mm and have HWA - AMG specific part number (HWA 202 specific part number) the only available rotor replacement is only stock.

Regardz,

J Irwan