davve34

Hey,


Anyone compared these two cars? FL vs PFL RS5 version.
How the gearbox is, and comfort, road noise etc.
I am pretty disappointed with my FL C43. How the gearbox behaves. Road noise and wind noise is high, ride is harsh. Quality inside doesn't feel so premium, and performance is not that great.
Wonder if the RS5 is worth the loss and extra money it costs?


regards

Ramsino

The RS5 is a different class, it's comparable to a C63, so yes it is faster than a C43. The transmission in the RS5 is smoother but not as sharp, I do hate how unrefined the transmission in the C43 is though. The interior quality is better but the materials in the C class looks higher quality to me (more leather, but you have to option for this, I've seen C43 without the leather upholstery and it looks really cheap), the RS5 uses this weird, black rubbery material in a lot of places that I don't like and they also use alcantara, which looks messy to me. Other than that, the RS5 is better in every way compared to the C43, and I would expect it to be around $85k (with some options that you pretty much must get). The C43 is only around $62k with quite a lot of options.

TModelle

I too was extremely disappointed with my FL C43. I
knew it the first week I drove it. Tried my best to tolerate it but at the end of the day, could not keep it as it made me made every time I drove it. I replaced it with an RS4. Much better for me. Have no complaints. Last week my buddy lent me his PFL C43 and I was reminded again how bad it all was and was so glad I got rid of it. On the other hand, I simply love the E53 and also the E63S and I’m actually on the hunt for one. If I find one at the right price, might come back to AMG. But definitely no C43 for me ever again, one of the worst cars I’ve owned.

davve34

Perhaps if you take the car out for a drive its fun, but when you live with the car. I have started to annoy me on the car. I drove a 19´ A5 45tfsi before, yes road noise is not great on the A5s compared to A4s. But on C43, come on. Perhaps the RTFs
contributes to noise too in some degree . But feels like the A5 is a better car overall, cabin etc.
Do you feel the lack of driver involvement in the RS4? That people complains about.

superswiss

Not directly, no. As stated above, the RS models must be compared to the 63 models. The direct comparison to the C43 would be the S4/5. However, the current generation RS models have become very mute and numb. From the beginning I felt the current RS5 should be called the S5 Plus. It is pretty much universally criticized for being too numb and not offering the driver involvement and driving experience expected in this segment. It's too sophisticated for its own good and feels clinical. For normal driving you might as well drive an A5. Sales actually do reflect this dilemma. At least before the pandemic and the current shortages you could get huge discounts on them and they were sitting around on the lots for a long time.

I owned the previous generation RS5 before my current C63S coupe. That was an awesome car with its naturally aspirated high-revving V8 directly derived from the V10 in the R8 combined with a dual-clutch transmission. In many aspects it was uncharacteristically for Audi. It still had the engine hanging in front of the front axle and you could feel that under braking and initial cornering as the car wanted to keep going straight, but the rear-bias of the quattro system along with the sport differential actually allowed for rotating the car with the throttle and even slide it in the corners.

Audi, IMO, has swung the pendulum too much towards normal commuter car with the current RS5. It does make it easier to live with and it's somewhat more comfortable to drive than my C63, but I just got kinda bored on an extended drive I did. It did great in the canyons, actually, but for normal driving it just doesn't feel special. The optional DRC suspension is part of the problem. It's way too harsh in Dynamic, and somewhat floaty in Comfort at least compared to my 2019 C63. In the slower sections in the canyons where I can keep my C63 in Race with suspension in S+ no problem, the RS5 knocked my teeth out in Dynamic and the C63 despite being more compliant handles noticeably better. Part of the problem is also that as opposed to AMGs there is no dedicated suspension button in the RS5. The issue is somewhat reduced in the FL RS5 with the new RS1 and RS2 modes which you can select from the steering wheel. Those are essentially two individual modes, so you can set one up with a softer suspension setting and toggle between them. Still not as ideal as having a dedicated suspension button, and Audi has nothing that approaches the AMG Drive Unit that allows controlling the drive mode etc. directly from the steering wheel. It's just not as driver focused of a car, but on the other hand it is easier to live with if you are looking for a softer everyday car that still has the performance.

Ramsino

I agree. Audi are great for daily. They are smooth in terms of ride quality and transmission. However, they do feel very muted as aforementioned. Yet, their performance is still comparable to BMW and Mercedes within the same class. At the end of the day, Mercedes offer the most feel, sounds and driver involvement for me. I do admit that ride quality is quite harsh and there is no excuse for the horrible 9 speed transmission in the C43.

LBarto

Does your FL C43 have RF tyres on? I had the same thing about road noise and ride quality. Which I put up with for 6 months until I finally changed to Non-RF tyres (Pilot Sport 4S) and the ride was completely transformed. They’re also less harsh on the alloys and are less likely to damage/crack them if you hit a pot hole.

If not experienced any gearbox issues so far except the known issue where it can be a little jerky if you’re in Sport+ in traffic - but even then it’s not a mode particularly built for stop/start or sitting in traffic so it’s easily avoidable.

Dave16hc

I can confirm that a 2018 C43 with only an OE tune will in fact pull away from the new RS5. I have run into the same car (beautiful dark blue RS5) on three occasions. From a dig we are door to door until around 90mph, then the tuned c43 slowly walks away. From a freeway role, it’s an instant slow walk away.

I have also run into 2 of the RS5 4 door coupe things, same results.

So acceleration wise, the C43 can be made a bit quicker for relatively minimal cost. Now of course the RS could then slap on a tune as well, so on and so forth. But considering the price savings, the C43 is serving its purpose quite well as my wife’s daily and my long distance commuter (900hp hellcats are not so kind on the fuel mileage).

What I am really interested in is the RS3. Now that’s a fun and easily modifiable car. If only I can convince the wife…

TModelle

Not any less involvement than any other earlier RS4 like the 2007 B7 RS4, and I think the B9.5 is the best iteration yet handling-wise with the lighter engine in front than before. The .5 also shed a lot of weight and is about the same weight as the C43 Wagon. Considering the substantial weight of the C43, Mercedes has been able to hide that heaviness in the nose which I find makes the C43 even more muted and artificial feeling than the Audi. That lack of feedback connecting the driver to the road in the front end coupled with an overly quick a rack makes the C43 really odd in this respect and I find it is more suited to town driving and easier driving in car parks. As for drive modes, the default comfort mode on the C43 is quite stupid and really requires you to engage Sport mode for it to come alive. The RS4 is also conservative in D but is smarter in going into a sportier program with throttle/brake/steering inputs without having to go into Sport mode. This is more traditional like cars in the past. The AMG needs you to tell it what to do, having to select the mode you want to drive in, which I find counter intuitive
- maybe this works better for the younger tech loving owners. The RS1/RS2 overlay on the Audi probably was a bid to get something quickly out the door to keep current, but it’s just stupid because all you need to do is drive the car and it’s smart enough to sort out what you want to do, and just toggle to Sport if you want it sportier by default. Couldn’t be simpler. Let’s face it, if you took the sound out of the C43 equation, there’s nothing really good going on with the model what with all the quirks and idiosyncrasies to tolerate.

superswiss

I'm not sure about that assessment, at least in general. The shift program in the AMGs is adaptive, so if you start hooning around even in Comfort mode it will start to hold gears longer etc. and the throttle is progressive. In Comfort mode it's more feathered for the initial response, but if you step into it the response is there. It's really no different from Audi. The Audi needs you to tell it what you want the suspension to do or the sport differential as well. It doesn't adapt that automatically. The DRC suspension specifically is actually non-adaptive. It only has three fixed modes for the central valves that diagonally connect the dampers, where as AMG Ride Controls is truly adaptive and adapts to the road and your driving style. Perhaps the implementation is lacking in the C43, but in the 19+ C63 it's great. In the RS4/5 you have to pick from essentially three fixed suspension setups and there is no in between based on your driving style. For example at least in my C63 I can put the suspension in S+, but if I'm just tooling around it remains compliant, whereas the DRC in the RS4/5 instantly gets harsh even if you don't actually throw it around corners. AMG Ride Control on the other only starts stiffening up if you actually start cornering hard. That's the difference between adaptive and non-adaptive.

TModelle

Audi’s DRC is adaptive. I have sent some time in an E63S as I am in a market for one, and I am of the opinion that the DRC is a lot more sorted than AMG’s ride control. On the other hand, I think you need to actually spend some time with the C43 to see its inadequacies instead of drawing comparisons with the C63. I have no issues with the C63 that the AMG dealer loaned to me over the weekend when I wanted to replace my C43. On the C43 the car rolls like a pig when you drive fast and corner hard in Comfort mode, Sport mode is too hard and unforgiving to drive leisurely, nothing in between.

superswiss

No, it's not. It's fully mechanical with three fixed central valves settings.

TModelle

It is adaptive. Just not electronically. And you know that the C43 ones aren’t, right?

superswiss

I'm not playing that game. You should read up on the inner workings of the DRC. It dates back to the C6 RS6 where it only had a single fixed setting. Read up on the design goals. It was never about ride comfort. It's about controlling roll, squat and dive. It has more in common with adjustable sway bars than an adaptive suspension. Audi expanded on it by adding three stage valves that allow to dial in different amounts of roll, dive and squat. Comfort is provided by letting the car roll more in all directions, which is why it has a tendency to be floaty in Comfort mode. The S5's suspension is adaptive, but not the RS5's suspension.

BTW, the DRC has quite a troubled history. It had terrible leaking issues in the C6 RS6 and the B7 RS4.