Birdseye

I've had my car now for 2 1/2 months close to 3K miles, I love it. The one thing I am most disappointed on is the lack of steering feel in terms of knowing where the tires are at. I feel a good amount of chassis feedback but the car lacks that tire knowledge I can get from my R171 SLK55, E39 540I or 2010 S4 (I have the pre-facelift hydraulic rack S4 which tells you stuff when the car starts to get pushed, but tells basically nothing at low speed). I drive a lot on backroads with tight turns, I know this isn't exactly what this car is best at but increasing the tire feedback would be really nice.

What mods are available to improve this, if any? 2013 P31 package sedan, 18 inch stock wheels on Michelin PS4 tires. Alignment, wheels, suspension? I tried searching but couldn't find anything about this specifically. Thanks!

Plutoe

hey biff you are over thinking the issue-----do what most Iranians do and wrap the wheel with a wool skin

roadkillrob

Interesting as the C63 is pretty known to have great steering feedback and I had a pre-FL S4 before my first of many C63's and the C63 is way better than the S4 normally. You have great tires that typically provide great feedback, I have them on my BMW and feedback is great, I have PSS's on the C63 and they are probably a bit better, but not a major difference.

To be honest, besides maybe alignment if maybe it is out of spec, I would start playing with tire pressures before doing anything extreme, what are you running for pressures as others with PS4's can maybe chime in on what they run for pressures.

deadlyvt

Very interesting indeed, having driven basically every incarnation of s4 I can’t think of any that had anywhere near the steering feedback or front axle grip the c63 has. The older 5 series do have pretty good steering but unless you have some suspension work and upgraded tires I can’t see them being in the same class as the c63 either?

hachiroku

zero toe will give you steering feel and the response you're looking for.

roadtalontsi

Start with an alignment, something is definitely up. I'm going to go the opposite way and say rear needs toe in and front needs toe out. Front tires will die prematurely but will improve turn in. I'm also concerned you think an S4 and/or Slk55 have better steering feel. You can always disable the speed sensitive valve that will stiffen it up. Don't be fooled into thinking these cars don't handle well. 265 R888R's on all 4 corners can pass miatas in a turn on the outside. People think mkiv supra's don't handle well too. Jokes on them.

12C63

Somethings wrong with yours.
Mine tracks very well.
​​​​​​…Although, I do bring mine in to get an alignment every year, or every other year.

Also, upgrade your thrust arms from Syncro Design Works.

Vladds

Bringing this thread back.
Looking into rose joint "ballbearing" bushings for the thrust arms.
Had these on my Subaru and they're good for 50K+ miles, when they're designed in with a good rubber boot, even with commute, potholes, etc.
Is there any other brand that provides such in the W204?

AMGSIXTHREE

Synchro Design Works makes spherical thrust arm bushings for these. They come pressed into new arms, so less work to install. They made a difference on my car but not night and day.
So far the chassis bracing has made the most dramatic improvement, specifically the rear strut brace. I did the front strut brace and front lower chassis brace at once. Didn't feel much change. Then added a really stiff custom rear strut brace and the car now feels MUCH different.

I will probably also have the front to set to zero as 86tuned suggested.

Birdseye

My original question was mostly solved by replacing the rear tires on my stock wheels with 255 8.8" tread width PS4S tires. The prior owner put 275 9.8" tread width tires, and the stock wheel is 9". I also put 235s instead of the 245s that were on there, and immediately noticed a huge improvement in being able to tell what was going on with the tires and had my most enjoyable backroad drive I had ever had with the car.

Reading up it seems having wider tires than your wheel width is not a good idea, especially if it's by a large amount. I now can throw the rear out and have a good idea what is happening. I don't go crazy but I feel very confident stepping it out now. I would not put the car on par with the best steering feel cars I have driven but it went from not knowing very well what to expect in the rear to it being predictable/confidence inspiring and being happy with the feel.

AMGSIXTHREE

I have 245 and 265 PS4S on 8.5 and 9.5 wheels.

275 on a stock wheel seems like a bad idea for anything other than a straight line, but it seems to work for some people here.

Vladds

Finished install of the Synchro Design Works Thrust arms.
Seems to have a slightly better, faster steering response.
They were not that easy to install. The struts have to come out. So I replaced those too with OEM.
Then, in order to get the bushing bolt back in, on the passenger side, you have to unbolt the oil radiator mounting frame.
Then, the part number of the shocks that were on the car from the factory is not even acknowledged by the online parts vendors.
Then the new ones are almost the same, except the shock rod is 1/2" shorter.
I wonder why the replacement shocks in the front struts need to be shorter than the ones that the car leaves the factory with.
I'll try to run the part number through the parts software, to see what comes out.

K-Mac

All W204 models do advise we manufacture a “TOTAL SYSTEM” when it comes to resolving OEM suspension shortcomings.

Re mention of improving handling response - the front forward facing large diameter thrust arm bushes OEM are soft rubber, oil filled. K-MAC replacement are Mono ball / Self aligning significantly improving brake and steering response without the harshness of solid spherical bearings (also having 3 times the load bearing impact area).

While for the rear (result of consumer feedback) - we also manufacture “Uprated Bushings” for the 6 multi link arms. Providing tauter response less twitch, flex, loss of traction. Especially when applying power to lane change / overtake.

BUT NOT ONLY THAT - Seeing OEM W204 models only have front and rear Toe “directional” adjustment (No Camber adjustment - it being “set at showroom height”) therefore no adjustment to cater for passengers side edge wear through high cambered roads or load carrying, lowering, wide profile tires, curb knock damage etc. Putting the onus back onto owners to prematurely fund new tires. It’s all to do with cost cutting and ever increasing speed of new car assembly lines.

We saw the need to also resolve this situation by providing Front Camber and Caster along with rear CAMBER AND INCORPORATE THIS ADJUSTMENT INTO THE 4 FRONT AND 2 REAR HIGHEST WEARING BUSHINGS ! (Front control arm and thrust arm along with rear control arms).

Unique K-MAC patented design allows easily accessible and precise single wrench adjustment. ULTIMATE direct on alignment rack “UNDER LOAD” !

NOT ONLY SIMPLICITY OF ADJUSTMENT - IT IS ALSO ALL ABOUT EASE OF FITMENT. With K-MAC no more the need for time consuming arm removal or special tools required. Both front and rear kits include bush extraction / insertion tools allowing fitment on vehicle !


SEE SPOILER RE TOTAL SYSTEM manufactured for all W204 models.

We subsidize DHL Express Air delivery Worldwide $40 one kit. $20 each extra.

Kevin



AUDI to VOLVO - K-MAC Experience Of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !

Vladds

I looked up the shock part number from the factory equipped strut.
Not found in the parts database.
Probably not for resale.
If it was superseded, or redesigned, the database would show it.
Now got to drive the car some more.
In my case, the front monoball synchro design went in with shocks and with the sway bar endlinks.
So although now the steering feel is quite noticeable, some of it must be attributed to the shocks and endlinks.

Vladds

Some additional info:
If you're replacing the shocks in the front struts and watching youtube videos:
There's two types of W204: AWD and RWD. The RWD can only adjust toe and very very little camber from the tophat holes.
So don't worry about retaining the alignment.
I decided to do shocks too, because i was doing thrust links, thinking that in 20K miles I may start to need struts and we're talking one alignment instead of two.
The shocks in my struts were, subjectively, at 50% life at 80K miles with all the NY potholes. Tophats were good. The tophat bearings look scary underdesigned (plastic race, really thin), but ... for some reason... didn't have a play, missing *****, or cracks. Did seem to be pushing the grease out. Had I have known that the bearings are separate, would have bought OEM replacements.

BTW: part number wise, Mercedes seems to have discontinued the tophats of the prefacelift C63 base and only sell the tophats of the C63 development package with the sport suspension. I was thinking to buy these, but the cost was starting to add up and I didnt really have a complaint about the tophats.
BTW#2: the tophat center plastic cap is meant to be installed from underneath. This is a bad design, as the best moment to torque down the strut nut is with the car sitting on its wheels. So I decided to take these out from the top and reinsert from the top. Can be done. For best results, file down the cap skirt a little.

Vladds

Just a little follow up, a few thousand miles later, NY potholes included, the links are fine. I went back to check if everything is still tight, all good.
There is definitely an improvement in steering directness and feedback with these.