hhughes1

While I have really had a blast driving my C63 at road course events, I was always aware of how much weight was being pushed around the track. Kind of like loading 4 40# bags of salt in the front of a grocery cart and trying to make sharp turns.

I had a chance to bring a 2007 E36, ugly but well track prepped to Roebling Road a couple of weekends ago. With just 200 whp and 2 year old tires, this car was incredible. Completely balanced, only 2500 pounds light, the car ran lap after lap seemingly never slowing down. Best laps were 1:20 /121 about 2 seconds faster than the C63 which was 20+ miles an hour faster at the end of the straight. The C63 had to have DOT slicks as well to run low 120's and after about 7 or 8 laps in a session it would overheat the tires and push so bad you had to park.

It's time to find a DTC for future events.

gthal

+1... I could not agree more. I was running as fast as a Z06 the last day out in my 1996 M3 (which is fully track prepped). MUCH more fun too... the car carries so much more speed into and through corners it is just silly. Power to weight isn't bad either!

Pics below

Fung63

makes sense.

quick question, is your C63 gutted to minimize every possible unnecessary weight? else, yea you will need a dedicated track car to satisfy your tracking cravings.

gthal

Even gutted, a C63 will weigh a lot. Obviously, it will help but it won't make the car light my any means. There is a reason you don't see C63s, etc being completely race prepped and stripped. There might be a small few. Weight reduction would help for someone who wants just better performance on the track for occasional track days. For someone wanting a race car like experience and a more dedicated track car, there would be many other and better options.

Fung63

i understand, seems like OP just took his DD C63 to the track. hence my comment about him needing a dedicated track car. Dont we all start off like this? dabble a bit in tracking... get hooked into it... start pushing the limit of whatever car we have (eg weight reduction, some mods etc) ... then realize that if we are to go to the next level we really need a dedicated track car.

mthis

e36 m3's are awesome for a DCT a friend has one and he wont give it up for nothing.

BTW BMW dint make a m3 in 2007. i think u meant 1997.

Patrick B

And therein lies the challenge with daily driving a car like the C63 (or really, almost any high performance, street car). In order to fully appreciate what it can do, you have to take it the track.

However, after a few regular trips to the track and the development of some driving skills, you begin to realize that driving a street car has certain limits (even some very good ones, such as the R8, GT-R, most Ferraris, etc). And that is two-fold: one, a well prepared 'track-car' will almost always demolish even the hottest street car on a road-course, despite any power deficiencies, and two, the notion of balling up a dedicated track-car at the end of the weekend doesn't hurt nearly as badly as balling up an expensive daily driver.

To be fair, there are FAR better track-day weapons than the C63, and a BMW M3 is definitely one of them. Most 911s are better suited as well, along with a few other, more rarified beasts (such as the aforementioned Audi R8 or Nissan GT-R).

I used to race, both in BMW Club Racing, and in Touring Car championships. After moving overseas, I kind of gave that lifestyle up, but find myself contemplating getting back into it now that we're back in Canada.

And I'm currently debating whether it's better to buy a set of track wheels / tires for the C63 and run the occasional HPDE and instruct a little on the side, or just go that much further a build myself a new dedicated tracktoy (most likely an E46 or early E90 M3).

Part of me just wants to go out and have some fun again, without getting too deeply into it (racing is a drug....make no mistake about it). Once you build a dedicated track car....then the next logical step is to go wheel-to-wheel racing (and those budgets get blown right out the window). I honestly don't think I'd bother with going wheel-to-wheel again.....I had lots of fun, but it takes a ton of dedication and money to make happen.

And if I build a dedicated track-car again, then I just need a place to store it, and it's yet another vehicle to maintain, etc. I agree that a dedicated car is the FAR better way to go if you're seeking the absolute in best performance, both from yourself, and from the vehicle. A car with a cage and proper race suspension will feel unlike ANY street car you can buy.

And it's not like one can really enjoy a car like the C63 on city streets anyway, so taking such a car to the track is one way to stretch it's legs, legally anyway.

Now, I'm a bit older than many, so that may temper my thoughts somewhat. But in sitting here typing this message, I'm thinking that in my own, personal opinion, I probably wouldn't go the dedicated track-car route any more (I will admit, however, to browsing Autotrader this afternoon looking for high-mileage M3s that might serve as suitable donor cars).

And the reason I probably wouldn't bother doing it any more is because I've already done it, and have been successful at it. Going to the track now is more of a relaxing experience, with the intent of just letting the C63 roar a little and to simply burn off some rubber and brake pads. The intent isn't to attempt a new lap record, or to be the quickest guy around Mosport. But rather just simply to wind it up, and to enjoy the time while I'm there.

That being said, just because I've "been there, done that", doesn't mean that going the dedicated track-car route isn't the right one. I would highly recommend it if you're at all serious about tracking your car, and if you think that one day you might take the next step and try Club Racing or Regional racing (both of which are an absolute blast).

The biggest problem with building a dedicated track car is that you start with a $20,000 car, you spend another $20,000 getting it fully prepared, and then you have a $10,000 car after all is said and done.



Patrick

DiscoZ

Agree with that unless you mean the E9x family... (besides the the DCT, it doesn't overheat and is lighter). My C63 PP is as quick as M3's on Mosport with its stock "skinny" tires. I will concede that my previous E92 M3 was a bit more precise (and it didn't overheat as much).

I will say the M3's aftermarket is much stronger and one can get many different products for performance, not just all looks... which seems to be where most of the C63 market is. Also helps that you can put anything up to a 295 on the back of a M3.

I would love to transplant a S65 in a Z4MC or E36 M3.

Pickles

Big heavy V8 up front?.....A C63, or any other similar car will never be an ideal track car, particularly where there is anything like a just reasonably tight corner....it will always be beaten by a more "nimble" "track orientated" car.....and for sure, on many occasions, a much less powerful one too!...It's just the "Nature Of The Beast".
Doesn't worry me at all....I ain't going to the track, & I'm super happy with what happens in my C63 when I "put the pedal to the metal".
Cheers, Pickles.

esses

I am about to cry...just sold my GT3 and ordered a C63 for a daily driver hoping i can run it on the track a few times a year. Previously I had an e46 M3 that was fully track prepped and my out of the box GT3 with an alignment, bucket seats, roll bar and harness blew its doors off, so I don't quite agree that non-dedicated track cars can't hold a candle to prepped cars in terms of lap times or fun factor. the biggest difference for me was that i always held back a little in the GT3 because i couldn't afford to stuff it into a wall and not care until next season.

gthal

I agree... there are lots of cars that are not dedicated track cars and are amazing. The only issue is $$$ as they generally are not cheap like the GT3

You can absolutely track the C63 but just don't do it on really hot days or expect it to feel as nimble as the GT3. It is a fairly capable track car otherwise (with some better rubber, a little camber work and brake pads).

esses

what do you recommend for pads? do you know if pagid is an option?

i keep on reading about how narrow the rear tires are...what do you run? i wonder if the compound/tread in pilot super sports may help offset the narrow width handicap of conti's???

and by the way, your e36 looks fantastic!

gthal

I was using Endless MX72 pads and they worked very, very well for dual street/track. There are harder core track pads for sure but with the usual compromises. The other thing I did was do Castrol SRF fluid and SS lines. The Castrol might be overkill but I have boiled fluid before and it isn't a fun experience so I went with the best option... especially for a heavy car that will be hard on brakes.

I'm also running 265/30-19 PSS rears and 245/35-19 front. It made a difference. If I were going to be taking the C63 to the track more regularly, I would opt for Potenza RE-11 if doing it again. They are a bit grippier and have a firmer sidewall... both characteristics that benefit the C63.

hhughes1

The C63 is a blast to take on the track, especially with the few modifications mentioned earlier to offset it's deficiencies. My experience was strictly " point- by" HPDE's up to the black solo group. With DOT slicks, the car can hang with most of the track orientated street cars previously mentioned and the roar is intoxicating! The point of this thread is merely to illustrate how different a track specific car, in this case with much less power, handles the course in a completely different fashion and most importantly can run for a much longer period of time without a significant performance degridation.

My interest still lies in casual events although wheel to wheel sounds intriguing. That being said the goal is certainly to be 1. Faster than my friends 2. Improve lap times at each venue. 3. To look like this all day long.

propain

Nice.

No matter how much you gut it your not getting a C63 down to 2400 pounds. Damn thats light. Just goes to show power isnt everything.

gthal

One interesting difference between the MB forum and the BMW forum is that here, you need to clarify that the "track" is a road course . Many MB owners think of the drag strip as the "track" where for most other places, the track is a road course. Although AMG cars are completely track (i.e. road course ) capable, there is a MUCH smaller percentage of owners who track their cars versus BMW, Porsche, etc. It does speak to the philosophical difference between MB and other manufacturers... at least on a historical basis. I think it is changing a bit now. Hopefully this will continue to change and MB will continue to develop AMG cars with this in mind. Lighter weight, strong suspension and brakes, no heating issues (don't get me going on that one, grrrrr...), etc.

Coming from a slightly different background, when I think of the track I only think road course which, in my mind only, is the correct usage. A drag strip is a drag strip (which by the way, is a little one dimensional IMO ... Just kidding... Kind of)

Dads C63

Okay Howard,
When are you going to announce your new racing toy and post pics??

I look forward to chasing you around the track. I'll do my best to keep you in sight. Be nice to me please.

hhughes1

I've already asked Mike to find me 30 more whp before Sebring. Fresh tires and a little more oomph will hopefully keep you in sight.

Patrick B

So, while we're on the topic.....any recommended sources for stainless steel braided brake lines for the C63 (any differences in brake lines between the coupe and sedan)?

Also, any idea what the FMSI number (or the backing plate number) is for the brakes on the C63? I've generally been a fan of Hawk pads (used to run HT-14s and HT-10s on my racecar when I had it). Though it has been so long since I've had to find brakepads that were suitable for a combination of street and track usage, I'm not sure where to start.



Patrick