I'm sure the C63BS transmission also has different software + better cooling (oil, trans plus differential).....not really an even comparo since it is built for the track.

And I'd still take DCT, PDK, manual over MCT if it were an option.

 

when driving hard in twistie roads for example, the same thing could happen so yes I think it's dissapointing. AMG should do something about this offer new coolers or something. shall we start a petition or something. (I don't one but a friend of mine does, I drive it frequently). no other amg's have this problem except the c63 non bs? c36/43/55. some c32's got a similiar overheating problem, but only when pusing real hard on the track lap after lap.

 

The main issue for me here is that the gearbox isnt working as it should. If it is getting too hot and so trying to protect itself there should be an error code. If not, then there is a fault on the car. The Black shows that there is no need for such a problem.

I do not plan to do many trackdays other than the odd charity day. I have been tracking for years and this C63 replaces my Track car (Ariel Atom 300). I have done the track thing enough but I would have pushed the car just as hard on Alpine passes so this kind of fault is important.

D

 

"This is Mercedes Benz Downtown in Toronto, Canada." - are you official rep. for MB Downtown ? I can use your info 10-15 times per month if you do not mind

Igor.

 

I just did a track day at the Autobahn Country Club ran about 9 - 15to20min session in my 2009 C63 Renntech tuned stage 3. Went thru 1 1/4 tanks of fuel.
I have a stock cooling system. Only problem,2 last session, TPS kept going off.
Like I thought, sensor fell off inside my aftermarket rims again.

 

I just ran a C43 on the track for 3hrs and 40 mins of track time in 1 go with 1 stop for refueling in the pit lane. I dont get temps over 105C (after a radiator change to a later version) even in summer and never lost any power on track. Considering the old models dont miss a beat under this punishment I've be pretty pissed if I had just bought a new C63 like many of you have and had these temp problems! There was a C63 at the track that only went out a few times, I went up and spoke to him and asked him if he wsa having power loss issue which he confirmed he was and thats why it wasnt out on track most of the day. If even said he's had the same problem on the road too!!

I've driven the first of the C63's into Australia on a very demanding track in 35C ambient and saw oil temps as high as 145C but they werent loosing power. Obviously high oil temps have always been an issue for the M156 but the point where they go into limp mode has obviously been lowered by the factory tuning at some point along the production and with the MCT gearbox it's made it worse.

Might be worth approaching some of the well known tuners to see if they can increase this limp mode point (I would only suggest this in conjuction with a larger cooler) as it seems to have gotten worse with the later models with no reduction in cooling capacity or engine changes. Alot of the problem must be in ECU parameters.

 

I thought I would post my recent track experience... or lack thereof.
Last weekend I took my fairly new (3000km on the odo) 2012 C63 sedan to the track - short track maybe only 2min long, only one real straigt, It was not a hot day, maybe 15C in the morning then creeped up to 20-22C track temp by the afternoon. 4 laps into the morning practice the car went into limp mode, no errors, just drastic power loss and stuck in 2nd gear. I was in S+ with esp on. As I approached the straight and squeezed on, it would open up again, then power loss again a few turns later. I know the track very well, not very much esp interaction at all, a couple instructors did ride along with me and mentioned I was super smooth so it wasnt as though I was throwing her into turns and mashing the throttle.
I later tried No-esp and esp-sport, didnt really help, would only get 3-4 laps until I would need to cool down. Didnt have a chance to look to hard at the dials but I know for most of the time the oil temp read upto 137C. It was embarrasing to say the least, had to keep pulling off to let the car cool down. Finally, under the advise of one of the track instructors who also does the ADA, I put the car into C and it did "help"... meaning it didnt go into limp mode, temps stayed lower, but I wasnt having fun anymore... which kinda defeats the whole purpose of it all.
This is my second C63, my last was a 2010 model and it did not have this problem on the same track, even with hotter days. I suspect it is the difference in transmissions and cooling.

I really hope there is a solution to this other than "take it easy on her"... cause, last I checked the commercials and advertising suggest otherwise ;-)

I see from other members on the forum that some have gone as far as replacing the trans and oil coolers with that of the BS... not sure how this affects warranty, if its carried out at a MB Dealer (If they'll even do it!?)

 

Well, that is almost exactly the same experience I had. It just loses power and wont change gear - but comes back after a short cooling period. But no errors come up !! Very frustrating.

 

Is this an issue with MCT or all c63 in general? I've been thinking about taking my 09 to the track.

 

I am waiting for my track day at Laguna Seca, before I take my own car to the track next year. I read that someone had the heater on full blast and may have helped with heating issue. This would definitely be a downer if I couldn't do more than 2 laps.


I suggest going to AMG PL on question day that is held once a month and ask about heating issue. And see if we can install BS oil coolers/ tranny coolers thru MB dealer that will not void our warranty... Or any other ideas/ options..

 

just the MCT models, those need the black series cooling big failure from AMG I still don't understand why AMG's doesn't solve this

 

whew thanks for the information

 

I am going to suspect this is only with the MCT equipped C63, I had the 2008 C63 and tracked it numerous times and the only issue I had on track was that I couldn't change gearx in manual, but put it in Sport and the car did the work. No biggy, but what I have been reading so far really breaks my heart. This car should not be driven by an enthusiast on a track and wory about these issues. It is down right embarrasing....especially if the guy parked beside you is in a M3 or an RS4. There is definetly something not right and I surely hope for all you guys who spent good money on these cars, that Mercedes figure this out and start a mass recall.

 

When will people realize they are driving a performance sedan and not a track car? You figure the air conditioning and plush leather seats would have given that away.

AMG did a great job on the car and it does exactly what they intended to. Go fast and stop quickly. If you wanna hot lap it like an F1 you are going to have to do some modifications.

 

No one is expecting the car to be a pure track car. People ARE expecting it to be able to do some lapping without issues like its Audi, BMW, Porsche peer group can do without modifications from stock. If a car that is marketed as being performance oriented and track capable (the various AMG sponsored track events as an example) then it should work for basic lapping without overheating. Every other car in the class can do it. No one is expecting the car to do more than it should. Jettas and Mazdas are at the track for lapping days and they don't have issues

 

Sorry Propain, usually I agree with most of your arguments over the years, but not here. When all the other four door saloons are having a blast at the track, the guy in the new AMG is waving everyone to go by on lap three because his car went into limp mode is disastrous. Why can all these other cars track and this car not is simply a huge engineering boo boo.

 

I hear ya guys and I wish it wasnt the case but what cars are you talking about?

Every car that you named would go into limp mode on the track except the Porsche under the same conditions. I think putting the Porsche into the same class as the M3, Audi and C63 is wrong anyhow. The Porsche is a track car, the M3 as well but not as much as the Porsche. Even the Porsche has its limits though. A CTSV will go into limp mode BEFORE the C63. They are in the same class. More of straight line shooters weighing in at 2 tons plus. Not endurance cars.

The Z06 which is FAR more of a track car than the M3,Audi and C63 goes into limp mode as well and starts to pull timing pretty quick if over heated after a few laps.

Take the same C63 and race it in some nice 50 degree weather and you wouldn't have the same problem. At least not as quickly. Its simply not made to tolerate hot laps in 90 degrees without mods.

Jetta's and Mazda's dont generate nearly as much heat as the C63.

 

I'm not an expert and I don't have much knowledge about this, but would this oil cooler from Veath help on track day?

 

Stepping into the C63 3 weeks ago I knew almost nothing about it's track abilities. Seems like some BS components/ programming would help. Running the heater will dump heat from the engine as you bake.
I spent 2 years building a corvette track car about 10 years ago. Lots of research, trial and error locating aux. coolers yielded a near bullet proof track car. It took larger coolers with plenty of airflow enhanced by a sawzall, ducting, hole saw etc.
It may be that the new tranny puts extra heat into the engine that the older tranny did not. I have a bus conversion that has a tranny retarder. The retarder slows the coach like an exhaust or Jake brake. Except it works by binding the tranny, shooting temps upward in seconds. The tranny temp gauge pretty much starts going up a few seconds (4-5) after activation. When you are off the retarder, the needle starts coming down immediately. Temps are hotter in summer and worse running the AC- a 12 ton unit. The tranny cooler is in line with the engine coolant radiator.
So I play this heat game. Heat is the enemy in the horsepower world. Programming out the limp mode without cooling mods would probably cook the 6.3 . Unless they went way too cautious with the programming at AMG.
There must be tons of info on this problem at AMG- unless they were sleeping and just bolted on the new tranny without testing
I believe folks above who say the older models were OK under same track conditions.
Sounds like BS coolers, ducting, would be a good start.
I have agree with PROPAIN above Re: the base C63 is not a Porsche GT-3. The BS is. I bought it to be very capable road car. If I had bought it to go to the track I'd be disappointed , but look at your budget and see what AMG recommends.
I have seen the temps rise with just spirited street driving. I have also seen almost every powerful street car encounter heat problems at the track, unless they are top tier track oriented , ie. GT-3. You wanta play, you gotta pay.

 

I'm going to disagree with Propain on this one as well. I've run several BMWs (M3s, 328s, 325s et al) on the track without any issues at all. I've run a BMW X5 and X6 at the track without any heatsoak issues either.

Not to mention that I've never had a problem with my previous Porsche's on the track either. Same for the Z06 as well (the biggest issue with the Z06 was burning up brake pads....otherwise it was completely track-ready from the showroom floor....except the crappy seats, perhaps).

So no, I don't think Mercedes / AMG should get a free pass on this one. Having a car that is targeted at the M3 and S4 as direct competition means that it should be at least comparable to those cars across most driving situations. These are German cars, which generally means that by definition they are targeted towards spirited driving on road-courses and autobahns.

I can't make any claims about the CTS-V and it's resistance to heatsoak, so that may very well be. But the C63 is specifically targeted and marketed as Mercedes Benz's answer to BMW's M3.

For it to do three or four laps around the track and then hitting limp-mode is a massive fail on the part of Mercedes-Benz. Especially for a company that made noise about returning to their roots and de-emphasizing profits in favour of over-engineering their cars.

If anything, this would seem to be a case of under-engineering this particular car.




Patrick

 

There is a distinct difference between the MCT cars and the previous. My 2009 ran many laps in Florida and Georgia with only one limp mode occurrence. Before and after the vented hood, I would typically have oil temps in the high 260's while water remained 199. Limp mode occurred at 282 the one time I had the issue and that was an August session mid day at Sebring. The problems being described lately are much worse than anything I ever experienced.

 

What!? I go to the track about once a month and don't see any Audi's, M3's, or CTV's going into limp mode. I was a driving instructor for 5 years and rode in many cars that never went into limp mode.

I've done numerous track days in my Evo which generates more heat than my C63 and it NEVER went into limp mode. And by heat, I mean my exhaust manifold was ****ING GLOWING RED.

To make excuses that these are not track cars is a little crazy. Any car should be able to handle a 20 minute sprint, especially on street tires.. If the car is getting too hot with oil or water, it is a design problem with the car.

 

+1... I didn't know what limp mode was on the track in either of my E92 M3s. The only car I have ever seen go into limp mode at the track in my 5 years being there is... my C63

I also am not so sure it is MCT related. It is an oil temp issue, not a tranny fluid temp. My guess is they changed something with the venting, oil cooler or something that isn't working as they hoped (compared to the pre-2012). I do believe some have had MCT overheating issues but many are oil temps getting too high.

 

Wow, it is a bit surprising that so many people have noticed "limp" mode type problems when tracking their C63's. From what I've read, it does seem the problem is more prevalent in the facelifted cars with the MCT transmission.

I wonder whether this is a bit "deliberate" on MB's part.......to "separate" the standard C63 from the C63 Black Series given the price difference. If you want a fully track capable car with all the necessary extra cooling for the engine and transmission, buy a Black Series. Otherwise be happy with a fast street car that is compromised for track duty. I certainly would be very upset that a standard C63 AMG may go into a limp mode of any kind just because of continuous lapping on a track.

Such a thing never happened in the previous generation W203 C55 AMG (which interestingly came with a standard cooler for the rear differential). I and others who track their C55's have never had problems like this. The M113 Evo engine and 5 speed Speedshift automatic transmission were pretty bullet proof despite continous lapping and pushing the car pretty hard during track days.

It certainly is a negative strike against the standard C63 for potential owners who do want to enjoy their sport sedan on lapping days.

 

Ever since I got the LT headers and changed to Motul 5W40, engine didn't overheated again, hope the new BS cooler will bring it lower