Diabolis

He was talking about spending money on wheels and tires and event insurance so that he could have fun. A few of us that have done this before suggested that this particular type of fun in a C63 may not be best way to have fun in a C63 and that he should probably save his money and buy an (IMHO great) book on the subject or alternatively sign up for some driver training instead.

We all want to have fun and want him to have fun, which is exactly why suggestions were made in an effort to explain to the OP that there may be other ways of maximizing the fun vs. dollars spent ratio. This led you to conclude that our driving skills suck. Does that sum things up for you or are you going to continue to provide us with your valuable input on the subject?

4ramin

Thank you as i was trying to hold back. the C63 was by far the worst car that i have ever done this with. Back end way to light for the TQ and the Front End way to heavy.. I will say it was allot of fun fighting it. i personally never hit any cones but the tail end was out on every turn.

as some may know I have a modded 944 turbo and currently picking up another one just for the autocross events and other track events as mine is a pristine condition.

zcct04

To the OP - The haters are right - the C63 is big, under-tired and overpowered for autocross. It's a mid-pack autoX performer in it's class (which is mostly made up of other big, under-tired and overpowered cars). If your goal is to have really fast times and an event-winning car, you will need to go find something else to compete with.

I'm pretty sure that's not where you're headed.

It sounds like you just want to have a little fun with your car. Don't let all this negativity discourage you. Just go out there and do it. It's a 60 second adrenalin rush. The car will do fine and you'll have fun. You'll come home sunburned and grinning . . . and probably a better driver too.

betrezra

I have seen a car totaled at an autocross event in New Orleans. So it can happen.

BMW slid around a turn hit a patch of grass then concrete then a group of trees on the edge of the air strip at belle chase.

You can run at 75% and have fun. If you really get into it pickup something suited for one of the classes and get some seat time. I spent a couple seasons having a blast in this sport.

PTW

Here's some valuable input just for you, get over yourself

Diabolis

I thought the bleating had finally stopped, but apparently I was wrong.

Chill out, dude. Five other people here have said the same thing about the C63 being to heavy for autocross, but you seem to know better than everyone else. Can't help but conclude that you're trying to compensate for some other deficiency with the size of your engine and ego.

<plonk>

PTW

Remember this line?

You really are an ocean going class idiot. Who cares if it is too heavy, too light, RWD, FWD, whatever. The fact is fun can be had in any car. Sure it's not going to win any classes, I never said it was, but that was never in question Besides that there are others here who've said they've had fun in a C63 and many more on youtube, etc doing precisely that as well.

By the way Mr Instructor, if you pushing into understeer in ANY car, don't push so hard

As for ego, bwhahahahaha, you should talk I wasn't the one handing out my resume.....

ps. Oh and by the way pin dick, add a few more pieces to your sig line, silicone wiper blades should get the ladies, or blokes......

PTW

Actually I just typed in "c63 autocross" in youtube and the very first response is this Not only is she having fun- that laughter at the end typically means people have enjoyed themselves by the way, she doesn't manage to understeer thru all those corners with her "big heavy front ended car"....Maybe she can get in touch with you and the rest of the doomsayers, and show you how it's done

Diabolis

Well, I just googled "idiot" and your picture came up, but (unfortunately) that doesn't prove anything.

Regarding the fun factor, he could be having fun by auto-crossing his C63, hanging off a pickup truck on a skateboard, running down a slippery path while holding a pair of sharp scissors or just by hanging out with some friends or watching a movie. He was talking about *spending a fair bit of money* to go auto-crossing in his C63, which I still maintain is not a good idea because of the dynamics of the car. The front is too heavy and the back too light for the power, and he will completely chew up his tires and end up being frustrated in addition to being $3-4K short in his pocket. In fact, going out with a car that is at a disadvantage to the rest of the field in an auto-X event (with modified tires his PAX time is going to be even further down) might even have the opposite effect - it might dissuade him from enjoying it further.

Regarding my "resume", you're the one that claimed that none of us can drive, not me. Yes, being at the instructor level means that you've done enough laps, but more importantly, demonstrated good judgement and responsibility, not that you're the fastest person around. There are a lot of other drivers out there that are considerably better than I am, and I myself have them ride with me to point out my mistakes or what I can still improve upon. What the instructor thing qualifies me for, however, is to judge the relative brains vs. ***** ratio for anyone I ride with, which unfortunately in your case is almost 0. If the guy in the drivers' seat has your attitude and ego, I'd ban him from the event to ensure the safety and fun of others.

PTW

What a load of bull****.

He never mentioned *spending a fair bit of money* you and others were. You even went on to suggest buying another car FFS The only thing dissuading him from doing it is muppets such as yourself continually bleating on about how he's not going to be competitive.

As for Regarding my "resume", you're the one that claimed that none of us can drive, not me, you first weigh into the argument was in fact towards me with if you think that a C63 would be in any way fun at an autocross event, I am sorry to tell you that you're the one that can't drive. Do you intentionally lie and not believe it, or are you just plain stupid?

As for you being an instructor, you may well know car control for all any of us know. Other than that, you're nothing more than a sad joke.


fx12002,

Just go and have some fun and don't worry about the negative attitudes. The chick in that youtube vid above just blew all their bull**** out of the water.

natman316

Wtf is going on. OP:

You can have some fun in auto x. You wont win the national championship with a C63 but if you want to have some fun on a sunday morning its a cheap and easy way to do it.

Trust me you will have a better car than half of the people there... Some people show up in **** box hyundais to do it and they have fun.

Diabolis

PTW:

He wanted opinions on what dedicated wheels and tires to buy - see post #1. Unless he steals them, last time I checked a set of *average* lightweight rims and R-comp tires were in the $3-4K neighbourhood. While that may not be a lot of money for you, it is not insignificant for everyone.

Furthermore, he mentioned that the car is leased and was concerned about wrecking it (and was subsequently asking about event insurance after someone else brought it up). Again, I don't know about your financial situation, but personally if I am not prepared to write off the car or am worried that I might damage this or that, then I don't push or drive as fast as I could, which does indeed affect how much fun I have. Taking this into account and the fact that the C63 is a pig in auto-x regardless of what you may believe, I did indeed suggest that for the same amount of money as a set of wheels and tires he could buy an old beater which he could drive with reckless abandon and no worries whether he is going to damage it, and that the beater can even outperform the C63 in an auto-x event as the times are PAX adjusted. Autocross, unlike a HPDE or lapping events, is a TIMED, COMPETITIVE form of motorsport. That's not to say that he can't have fun, but if he does something to the car, he is indeed on the hook for the damage, and thus he could have MORE FUN in a cheaper car that he doesn't care about, which is going to be faster than the C63 in auto-x and which he could buy for the same amount of money he would be spending on wheels and tires for his C63. I honestly don't understand why you think the suggestion was outrageous.

From the top down, natman316 (post #4), 4ramin (post #7) and kent426 (post #14) correctly suggested to the OP that the car isn't going to be competitive. I would now like to draw your attention to post #15, in which you wrote "maybe some of you just can't drive". At this time I hadn't even read the thread, let alone posted anything, yet you continue to insist that I somehow started the mud-slinging. Who is the delusional one, please (or "liar or stupid" as you so eloquently put it) - me or you?

Three people - this time including myself - chimed in *afterwards* and also expressed our opinion that the C63 is not a good car for auto-cross, but you persisted and at this stage decided to focus your anger on me and started with the name calling ("ocean going class idiot" and "pin dick" were my favourites - I have to hand it to you, you really have a way with words). So let me ask you again, who is the sad joke - me or you?

Seeing as this is not in any way constructive, I am going to apologize to the OP and the rest of the readers for the thread hijack and bow out. Please feel free to have the last word if that makes you feel any better as you clearly have some big issues judging by your sensitivity to being told that you may be wrong, or better yet go back to watching chicks on YouTube having fun and fantasizing it was you.

As for my "silicone wiper blades being a hit with the ladies or blokes", feel free to PM me at any time, sweetie. Here, let me put a smiley here for you just in case you mangle up your words again.

PTW

The bloke is just starting out and now you are suggesting lightweight rims & R specs? You really are a muppet.

As for not being competitive he already ****en knows and acknowledges that in his first post, the bloke just wants to have fun. I can only explain it to you, I can't make you understand it.

As for the chick in that vid, she ***** canned your earlier statement.

Diabolis

No - the OP was asking about it. See here:

I am not disagreeing with you here at all. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways for him to have fun in his C63 rather than auto-x (a wet skid pad for example, which you brought up and with which I wholeheartedly agree), or alternatively, if he wants to have fun in auto-x, that he could have as much if not more fun in a cheap beater instead and not worry about wrecking his nice C63.


Sorry - never watched it, but I'll take your word for it. Are we finished?

PTW

I thought you were bowing out before........

While yours and some of the other blokes intentions are well meant from experience, the hard edged "don't bother with it at all, it's too heavy a car, etc" negative approach is a dismal way to get new guys into motorsport. Given that you are supposed to be an instructor, I believe you of all people, could have gone about it better. Simply put, go and give it a go in your car, THEN consider whether to go further with mods, or in fact even if it appeals to you at all. That's the crux of the matter.

In this day and age of ever increasing policing on roads and wanting to take hooning of the streets, what we should be doing is encouraging people not dissuading them with all this negativity. I think some of you blokes got too caught up in the competitiveness of it, rather than the fun.

About 10 years ago I was doing some weekend circuit sprints which are toned down - only overtaking on straights, etc, and I got talking to a middle aged bloke that looked like Crusty the Clown with slacks on, driving a bog stock Hyundai Excel for his first ever track day. His wife had told him to go and speed on the track instead of getting any more fines.....all he did was remove his hubcaps in case he lost them and didn't want to get in the **** with his missus. I saw him after a few sessions, the bloke was having a ball and couldn't stop smiling. I never forgot or lost sight of that.

Lets be positive not negative.

Diabolis

Now - THAT was well written and well said, and I concede that perhaps because of my previous experience at auto-x, I assume that everyone else also has the urge to get the best lap time down instead of just drift around. You do have a valid point, and I apologize if I came across as being negative, both to you and the OP.

And I am also with you 100% about "Crusty the Clown" kind of fun - I had a similar experience myself when at an unsanctioned track lapping event I went to, a relatively young guy showed up with three passengers in a rented Chevy Cavalier. We had a giggle, but we explained all the basics to him, made sure he understood the flags and the rules, took him for a few laps around to show him "the line", and then let them all ride along with him. Circuit was flat as a pancake with tons of run-off areas and nothing to hit for miles, plus there were only the four of us that had rented the track and for a while we let him have the whole track to himself. I don't think he ever managed to top 50 mph at the end of the back straight with all the people in the car, but the four of them had the biggest grins on their faces I have ever seen. We gave them all a beer afterwards (we only had the four cans for ourselves) while we were packing up, and invited them to come back with us anytime.

So - now that we have resolved this, if we ever meet I will gladly buy you a beer or two, and we can swap stories about Crusty, chicks and peacefully debate the merits of the C63. I'll even let you hold my silicone wiper blades.

PTW

All good mate I can come across a bit strong at times, subtlety was never my strong suit.

I plan on doing some wet & dry motorkhana in mine when home time and dates permit. I'll post something up about it, might even get a GoPro or similar.
It's a small world and I'd be happy to have a beer with you

ps. Great colour and shape you have as well, we do think alike

Patrick B

As an instructor for the local BMW club, and formerly for the local Ferrari club, I will agree that taking ANY vehicle to a driving event (track or auto-cross) is a worthwhile investment in developing driving skills / car control skills.

I'll also say it's some of the most fun you can have.

I've had students and fellow instructors with X5s, Cayenne's and Volvo XC90s on the track, along with the more common collection of 3 series, 911s, Boxsters etc. For Ferrari club events, obviously it didn't include any SUVs, but the instructor group was often a mixed set of vehicles (usually fully race prepped cars, mind you).

Whether the C63 could perform reasonably at an auto-x isn't a pure black and white question. It REALLY depends on the layout of the course. Some courses are well suited to a high horsepower, RWD vehicle, and some are far, far better suited to smaller, lighter-weight cars. If it's a tight parking lot type course, then yes, the C63 probably isn't the best car if you're looking to win. Then again, my 3 series race car wasn't great for that type of course either. Didn't stop me from getting up early on Sunday mornings.

As to the car being prone to understeer, well, I'll take some issue with that as well. I can make virtually any car understeer into a turn, and especially on an auto-x course. My racecar was setup to be as loose as possible, and it would still plow if I tried to drive it too hard on an auto-x course. It wasn't the cars fault; it was mine. And this was on a car that ran matched front and rear wheels / tires (Toyo RA1s).

I'm willing to bet that a good driver in a C63 could easily clobber a rookie driver in a far more suitable auto-x car (say, Integra or Civic), even on a tight, power-restricted course.


Patrick

betrezra

Good points pat about driver skill.

After he gets out of novice and starts to care about running seconds behind the "right" car in a class if you are a competitive person it starts to stink.

I was a gross example with a supercharged fox chassis mustang with stock brakes running in sm against very well sorted imports.... Was I having fun? He'll yes. Was I improving my times with each lap event? Yup.

Was I running 1-3 seconds behind the front runners? Yup.

There is also some value in getting the 'right' car the class. Do your homework if you'd like to have fun AND perhaps win some events too.

betrezra

My buddy ran a pos 2nd gen rx7he picked up for $50!!!! Lost title. And w beat the heck out of that car and did pretty well.

MBAdon

I ran an autocross in my P30 C63. I had a blast and lots of people were glad that I brought it and were in awe of the engine sound. I was in the lower half of the results but I beat a lot of cars I shouldn't have.

SaphGreyC63

So, anywhere to get started with all this? Im in Los Angeles too and the OP and this thread has piqued my interest.

zcct04

I'm not local but these should be a good start:

Official website of the Los Angeles/Orange County chapter for Solo2 and Autocross: http://www.solo2.com/

Los Angeles Chapter of the BMW Car Club
www.losangelesbmwcca.org/
https://www.facebook.com/bmwautocrossla

fx12002

Hi,

Resurrecting this somewhat dead thread -

Thanks for all the input! I have taken the car to a few events and had a ton of fun. The above groups all hold AX events. The first one I attended was an SCCA Solo2 event in San Diego. There are some LA events coming up as well. The most recent I did was through a company called Speed Ventures that hosts events all over. I really liked their event because I was able to do so many runs.

Here is a video from the SV event:
https://vimeo.com/74487105

(sorry for the sound, GoPro built in microphones do not do this car justice!)

Few notes:
- Don't judge me! Just trying to have fun and improve.

- Video is just a random selection of laps. My later runs were generally improved times however I ran out of memory cards for my cameras

- I generally ran with traction control in Sport mode however I did experiment with it fully off as there were some sections of the course that I felt the Sport mode was slowing me down. Just overall, I was faster with Sport mode on.

- Run in Manual mode. I started out running in S+ but better lap times in manual. Generally started in 1st and short shifted to 2nd depending on how bad wheel spin off the start was. All the events I have done so far are 2nd gear the entire way. Few sections you could get to 3rd but not worth the up and then quick down shift. This car has so much torque that I did try running in 3rd more to not spin the wheels up so much. Not worth it.

- This car is a handful! Good example of traction control fully off + lazy handling of oversteer = bit of a mess in my video.

- The next one I get, I am getting the LSD.

Tires:
- Awful, just ran with the OEM all season tires - they are totally trashed and going to be replaced with something better suited to AX events. I think my talent ran out before these tires did honestly, however I am certain better tires would give me better results.

Insurance:
- Found and paid for some. I did my first event without insurance, however after talking to a lot of people at the events and this video:

I decided to get some event insurance for on track damage. It's expensive, but so is this car. Just my gut instinct and frankly the amount of crap I waste money on, insurance is never a bad way to spend it.

Results:
- Respectable. In my first event I was getting smoked by everything on wheels. Later events I have been placing solidly in the middle to upper middle depending on the other cars and course layout. The video I linked to was a course that I feel was as well suited to this car as an AX course could really be.

PTW

Can't see the vid but well done and sounds like you had a lot of fun