Clark Kent

I came across a damaged patch on one of my tires. There is the Michelin warranty, but I did not purchase the road hazard coverage from Discount Tire.

The tire has 5710 miles on it. Manufacturer's warranty is 15,000 miles. They way I see it I have used 1/3 of its life, with an expected 2/3 remaining.

The rep at Discount Tire wanted to give me $81 credit towards the pro-rated replacement due to the remaining tread depth.

He wants to credit me 1/3 (remaining tread depth) but I am expecting a 2/3 (expected 15k mi life) credit. Which perspective is correct?

AMG893

I think the dealer is correct TBH.

I understand that the WARRANTY is 15k, but if one were to deplete their tyres in say 8k, does that mean, one could get 50% off their next tyres? Because they SHOULD have lasted 15k?
It all depends on how one drives their car.
I get it from the dealers side. According to tread wear marker, you have USED 66% of the tread, with 33% remaining. Hence his 33% discount. If you had used 100% of the tread by 10k, what would you do then?

But in saying that, looking at the picture, could it be a tyre defect? In which case, i think you should have the whole tyre replaced free of charge.

ML63 AMG

He is correct, you are lucky you are getting anything at all, I would take the offer and be very happy

Critter

If that tire has 5K on it then you need a wheel alignment and front end component check really bad. Also if they offer you any money for this take it and run. When you get the new tires, buy a pressure gauge because this tire looks like it has been run low on pressure or you do most of your driving in circles. That tire is not safe to drive on any more, get the new ones and thank the rep repeatedly.

Jasonoff

They pro rate "usage" up to 15k miles.

With your logic you could have your rears replaced multiple times for free after a 60s burnouts.

AMG893

I was thinking this, but i was trying to be a little softer.

Clark Kent

- I wasn't clear in my first post. The tire has 2/3 tread remaining. Therefore the rep is 'replacing' the 1/3 that has been used.

- Yes, exactly. That's what a mileage warranty is.

- YES! That is the point I tried to get across to the rep but his mind was stuck on 'remaining tread depth'.

- Both fronts look like that because of about 3-4 track sessions. One track is pretty hard on brakes with tight corners and tire roll. I keep an eye on my TPMS on a regular basis and typically run 40 lbs all around for daily driving.

Sorry for the original confusion. Can you recalibrate your responses according to 2/3 tread remaining?

Ingenieur

you need to measure the tread depth
you may have used 2/3 of the depth in 5700 miles

Critter

Those tires are toast, if you want to race around a track then just why do you expect Michelin to bail you out of this issue. Take the 80 bucks per and buy new tires, if you want to be thrifty pull them out of the dumpster when they take them off and rotate and use them again for track purposes, but when they blow, all bets are off. LOL my tires are crap at 5000 miles but I have 4 or 5 tracks days on them and they are only 1/3 worn/ mileage LOL.

roadtalontsi

michelin super sports aren't exactly a tire designed for track use. Im surprised you dont have any issues with them becoming "greasey" with the weight of the car. I saw your pick and though wow, those were either tracked or driven under inflated for a while at high speeds to get them so hot. Either way those tires are trashed. id take whatever they give you and be thankful its anything at all.

amdeutsch

Admitting that you tracked the car numerous times and as evidenced by that pic.

The tire warranty is applicable if you meet the restrictions: proper alignment, pressure, etc, etc.

Since you tracked it and admitted it its obvious from the pic that the alignment is wrong. There are difference for a track and street alignment. And they don't play well together.

If you want to continue tracking your car you really should get a different alignment and also start swapping side to side to help a little with wear equalization.


Your tread depth is not only based on the deepest you can measure but taken overall across all of the tire. And most will tell you that when you hit the wear bars its time for a new tire due to safety concerns - hydroplaning for one.

Take the offer and run, don't look back.



EDIT


Michelin tire warranty (doesn't anybody read the paperwork anymore? Geez)

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
This warranty does not cover tires damaged due to misuse, abuse or accident such as:
– Misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation, overinflation or other abuse;
– Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of
2/32nds of an inch or more across the face of the tread on the same tire);

Clark Kent

My concern this entire time has only been the tread surface failure. The obvious hard cornering wear/melting (fun) is all on me. My fun, my cost. I wore out the previous set the same way (fun) and didn't say a word to anybody. This tire is 1 of 8 that has had such a response. At that time I slapped on 4 new rotors, 4 pads, 4 stainless steal brake lines, 4 PSS's, new oil and fresh Motul 600. Two weeks later I had the KW V3's installed, corner balanced, and aligned. Then I went to COTA - with no tread failure and no melting. This last trip to Eagles Canyon Raceway melted my outer walls pretty bad. I acknowledge the wear I induce and am not expecting reimbursement for that. But, at anytime, fresh or worn, when the tread fails as shown I do expect significant replacement.

The tire is rated for 186+ mph, for ALL 15,000 miles. I hit 145 mph on the back straight of COTA before I aggressively asked my enhanced brake components to engage at 200 ft before the next hard left. I EXPECT my tires to be there for me. Tread failure as shown can lead to total disintegration at that speed, and braking load.

The ONE tire failed somewhere. Street or track, I don't care. I expect Michelin to appreciate that I choose to use their tires for double duty - especially since I see Michelin banners at over tracks around the world. Especially since I see the MB Star all over tracks, and pace cars, around the world. I use both products per their hyped marketing so I expect both to stand behind their product. Or maybe I experiment with a new Z06.

Critter

So your view is the piece of rubber just fell out? Did you by chance hit a piece of debris (wheel weight) on the track during hard deceleration and a tight turn, just what does the rocker panel look like, any gouges or scrapes. R U running nitrogen, what is the tire temp after a run?
You should look into running more pressure in your tires to keep them under the rim.

amdeutsch

COTA is very easy on tires. That surface cannot be compared to the rumble strip called EC. That damage on that tire does not look like a manufacturing defect. You can see cuts before and after. It looks like something you hit, drove over.

He is allready running high hot temps. PSS get very greasy on track with hot pressures above 40 psi. Again, that tire looks like it can benefit from a track alignment.

Clark Kent

- Agreed. But ECR is not. I don't know when, where, or how that damage occurred and certainly neither does anybody else. Lots of possibilities. That is why upon my original discussion with Discount Tire I was open to a pro-rated settlement based upon 2/3 of the center tread is left on the tire. The mileage on the tire is a little over 1/3 the warrantied mileage. Had they offered me 2/3 credit towards one tire I would have been happy and not even asked my original question in this forum. And of course I would replace the other front and rears at my expense.

- No. I don't know for sure what happened as I was behind the wheel at the time. There is no damage to my rocker panel and yes I run Nitrogen. I check the tire pressure before and after each session and post-track pressure is always under maximum specified value per the manufacturer. The pre-session pressure is boosted to 44 f and 45 r.

@Critter - What set up do you run on the track? Which track? What is the layout like? What is the surface like? What is the ambient temp? You on Nitrogen as well? Plz post a video, I'd like to see the fun you are having.

Ingenieur

Michelin does not care about you
Especially when you want something for free and warranted when the activity is excluded

They don't care what car brand you buy
Doesn't the new vette come with PSS?

Take whatever they offer, if anything. And be satisfied

Unless you are a purchasing agent for tire rack or an auto mfg you don't exist

Re:damage, looks like debris
It would be all over the tire if a mfg defect

Looks like you hit debris
You can see marks on both sides that fade in/out right at the edge of the damage

amdeutsch

I already posted excerpts from the Michelin tire warranty. You need to get off the mileage kick. DT was more than fair IMHO even offering you anything. For reference: I use PSS as my rain tire for track events and as DD tires. I also have a track alignment. I've got 4k miles on my PSS both street and track and am below the wear bars. Should I hold Michelin responsible for their warranty? According to your posted argument on here I should. In the real world I know what I put these tires through and am happy they lasted this long. I would be happy to even get 500 miles out of my dry track tires.

Regarding pressures; you run too high of a pressure for track. PSS get greasy at those. You also need to get a track alignment if you want to extend tire life.

roadtalontsi

you should see what tires look like after you go drifting that is nothing. Huge chunks come off. dont be a cry baby about this. Get some real tires for track. I know what pss are capable of and the road course is no place for them.

ab0bab0i

+1

Get some R comps for track, Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888s.

rory breaker

Just to be clear here...racing aside...if your PSS lasts 5k, they will likely credit you the remainder of the warranty towards a new tire.

Clark Kent

I wore out my last set of PSS's with the same combo of street and track use and didn't say a word to anybody because I know I am putting aggressive duty on the tire. They wore down without any tread surface disintegration (and that is my main point all along). I didn't ask for any warranty involvement at all - I simply bought a new set of tires.

And yes I am aware of the many versions of R compound tires that are more suited for the track. That is all well and good but I am going to take a moment and describe in detail how any argument about track usage is abuse or unintended usage. I am going to point out how Michelin ties this particular tire to 'racing' and 'racetracks'.

If they describe and market the tire with words like 'racing' and 'racetracks' then I expect to be able to use said product in such a manner. It is this that is the thorn in my side - not the $81 credit or even just $232 to outright buy another. I expect these companies to stand by their products in the manner in which THEY depict usage. And, replacement of my other 3 tires (long before warrantied mileage) is all on me. I am not asking for anything related to the outside edge depletion - my sole point is the tread surface failure.

Hold on and I will compose my point . . .

Clark Kent

I see a number of responses that are stumbling over the 'track use' issue. As well as 'abuse' and 'unintended usage'.

From the TireRack site describing PSS's :

"While Pilot Super Sport tires are designed to allow sports cars, sporty coupes, performance sedans and supercars to achieve their full potential in dry and wet conditions . . ."
- I drove my 'performance sedan' near its 'full potential' - so how is that abuse? They say that is what the tire is designed for.

"The Pilot Super Sport is Michelin's Max Performance Summer tire initially introduced as Original Equipment on several of the world's most sophisticated performance vehicles, including the exclusive limited edition Ferrari 599 GTO, Ferrari's fastest road car ever."
- So when Ferrari tested their 599 GTO on the Nordschleife do you think that Michelin told them DO NOT USE OUR TIRES ON THAT TRACK - THAT CONSTITUTES ABUSE?

"While the importance of tire treadwear in endurance racing may not be immediately apparent, Michelin tires set records during the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2010. One of the 2010 LMP Class leaders completed 46 consecutive laps on one set of tires with an average pace just 1% off of the pole position qualifying time. That’s almost 400 racing miles on one set of tires at an average speed of 150 mph."
- Here they mention 'racing' and 'racetracks' and 'average speed of 150 mph'. Yes, I am aware that these events were not run on PSS's - but they chose to put this on their PSS marketing description so I am going to hold them to their words. The tire is rated for 186+ mph. They mention 'racetrack' and 'average speed of 150 mph'. I hit momentary top speeds of 145 mph on a racetrack. How is that outside of their design and marketing parameters? How is that 'abuse' or 'unintended usage'?

If Michelin is going to market their brand AT a racetrack then I am going to take their brand TO a racetrack. What happens on a racetrack. Hard acceleration, hard braking, aggressive cornering.

Michelin categorizes this tire as a 'Max Summer Performance' tire. Michelin markets this tire for 'performance sedans'. So I drove my 'performance sedan' aggressively around a few corners. I use their tire in the way it is designed for. I use their tire in the way it is marketed. How is that abuse?

So any response here in this thread, by Michelin, or by Discount Tire that says I used the tire for unintended purposes is invalid and unsubstantiated in my opinion.

Same goes for our cars themselves. Remember the commercial that shows a C63 spinning its tires, drifting, and generally being driven in an aggressive manner? Remember the small print on the screen that says 'professional driver on a closed circuit'? That commercial is saying "our car is designed for, marketed for, and capable of being driven like this". So if and when a consumer drives their C63 in a similar manner then MB has lost the right to complain. If I took a in-warranty C63 out to the same salt flat where they filmed that commercial and drove it just like their driver did and in doing so the car had a mechanical failure do you think MB has a right to say that I abused the car and used in an unintended way?

Back to my original point with my first post - the tread surface failure is a significant safety hazard while I am on a 'racetrack' with 'average speed of 150 mph' and since said failure occurred with less than 15,000 miles on the tire then I expect the tire to be replaced free of charge. It is that simple. I don't care about the outer edges being worn down. I don't care about how much tread is, or isn't left elsewhere on the tire. It is the tread failure patch that is my sole focus. From that failure the tire could have disintegrated at track speed or highway speed or just gone flat at neighborhood speed. Either way the tire failed in a manner not consistent with normal usage and wear and I expect a full replacement. And yes, I repeat, 'normal usage' means using the tire in the way it is designed, described and marketed per the above.

Diabolis

WTF... you tracked your car, chunked your tires (which btw happens when the tire temperature is not uniform, i.e. the carcass temperature is still low compared to the surface), and you want Michelin to pay for it?

Jasonoff

Yes, that's what he's asking for...

Diabolis

The OP's elaborative argument of what he believes Michelin should guarantee reminds me of something I overheard a few years ago at my P-car mechanics' shop who has been building engines and preparing race cars for many, many years. There was a guy - we'll call him Superman - with a 911 GT3, complaining how the new clutch he had had installed only lasted him a month with two weekends at the track and that he constantly kept overcooking the brakes.

Superman: "Mechanic, you told me that every car Porsche builds is a race car. Why does the clutch keep burning out and the brakes keep fading?"

Mechanic: "Yes, Superman, I did. Every Porsche built is a race car. But not every driver is a race car driver."


P.S. To the OP - your ENTIRE argument completely misses the "professional driver on a closed circuit" disclaimer. You are clearly NOT a professional driver. A professional driver knows about heat cycling tires and that the tire temperature during the first few laps is not uniform between the surface of the tire and the carcass, which is when and why chunking occurs. If you have any grey matter left in your skull, please use it to accept responsibility for the fact that it was your lack of driving skill and knowledge that killed the tire in question, not a defect with the tire. Just because you see Michael Phelps win swimming competitions wearing Speedos doesn't mean that you won't drown the first time you put on a pair and jump in a lake, and that Speedo would be guilty of false advertising and/or responsible for your death.