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Do all C63 pull to the right after H&R sport springs are installed?

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Do all C63 pull to the right after H&R sport springs are installed?

 
Old 07-15-2018, 09:37 PM
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bolts are only about 20$ each from the dealer. They arent crash bolts people. they are adjustment bolts. Id go ahead and get 2. pull left trol arm in and push right control arm right. Your car should have a pretty healthy pull to the right with those specs.

And to the post above this. - Crya - If you are a notch off on the steering wheel the only way to really know is looking at actual values of the steering angle sensor. I'd highly recommened leaving it as is unless you know its messed up. the Steering wheel position can also be adjusted with toe adjustment. go get an alignment if you're concerned - from someone who knows what they're doing.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by roadtalontsi View Post
bolts are only about 20$ each from the dealer. They arent crash bolts people. they are adjustment bolts. Id go ahead and get 2. pull left trol arm in and push right control arm right. Your car should have a pretty healthy pull to the right with those specs.
I'm going to go to the dealer on Monday and see what they quote me for 2. From OEPartsDiscount I found it was the cheapest at $20.62/bolt. Most likely I'll be purchasing them online as MB Pleasanton loves to have a huge markup on their parts (I'm predicting they'll charge me upwards of $28/bolt). I read people calling them crash bolts, so naturally I assumed that was the bolt's name... but we all know what happens when people assume; adjustment bolts, got it. As far as the pulling goes, I wouldn't describe my car having a healthy pull to the right. I would say it is more sensitive to the crown of the road. On flat ground (i.e. a parking lot) it drives straight but on a crowned road it pulls left or right respectively. I thought the same as you after reading my specs, but surprisingly not. Thanks roadtalontsi for your help, your advice solidifies my dilemma of 1 or 2 bolts. I will keep you guys updated.

Last edited by curt.r; 07-16-2018 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by curt.r View Post
I'm going to go to the dealer on Monday and see what they quote me for 2. From OEPartsDiscount I found it was the cheapest at $20.62/bolt. Most likely I'll be purchasing them online as MB Pleasanton loves to have a huge markup on their parts (I'm predicting they'll charge me upwards of $28/bolt). I read people calling them crash bolts, so naturally I assumed that was the bolt's name... but we all know what happens when people assume; adjustment bolts, got it. As far as the pulling goes, I wouldn't describe my car having a healthy pull to the right. I would say it is more sensitive to the crown of the road. On flat ground (i.e. a parking lot) it drives straight but on a crowned road it pulls left or right respectively. I thought the same as you after reading my specs, but surprisingly not. Thanks roadtalontsi for your help, your advice solidifies my dilemma of 1 or 2 bolts. I will keep you guys updated.
Went to MB Pleasanton today to get a quote on the adjustment bolts. They quoted me $38 + tax per bolt. I thanked them for their time and sprinted out of there. I placed an order at OEPartsDiscount and hopefully it'll come in within the next week or two. Update to come then.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:19 AM
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lol 38$!!! wow thats impressive.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:28 AM
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Just wanted to give an update since I lowered the car. I have the bolts, but haven't put them in yet (stupid me, I know... kicking myself for it but it will all makes sense after reading this). I've put around 2,000 miles on the car since then and like @roadtalontsi stated, I do have a pretty healthy pull to the right. Must have something to do with the springs settling, or I have no clue... The pull became more noticeable as the miles rolled on. It's nothing too bad, just getting to the point where I'm tired of constantly steering a degree counterclockwise to counteract it. I also decided to check my tires and see how they're wearing from the excessive camber I have in the front. The rear tires are doing OK, no excessive camber wear, but the fronts are not doing so well. They have worn down all the tread on the inside of the tire (no cords showing yet, thankfully). I've decided to stop driving the car as of now and it has been sitting for the past couple weeks. I've decided that there's no use for installing the adjustment bolts, as it will not fix my problem. I'm going to be placing an order for the K-MAC front camber/toe bushing kit and having that installed by a shop. I'm at the point with my tires where I can still save them as long as I correct this issue now. These MPSS's are less than a year old and have 75% tread life left. Very disappointed in myself for trying to save a few bucks... once the bushing kit is installed I'm going to take off the wheels and do a through inspection of the tires.

Here is the link & part number to the K-MAC bushing kit if anyone is interested: https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K

Last edited by curt.r; 09-14-2018 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by curt.r View Post
Just wanted to give an update since I lowered the car. I have the bolts, but haven't put them in yet (stupid me, I know... kicking myself for it but it will all makes sense after reading this). I've put around 2,000 miles on the car since then and like @roadtalontsi stated, I do have a pretty healthy pull to the right. Must have something to do with the springs settling, or I have no clue... The pull became more noticeable as the miles rolled on. It's nothing too bad, just getting to the point where I'm tired of constantly steering a degree counterclockwise to counteract it. I also decided to check my tires and see how they're wearing from the excessive camber I have in the front. The rear tires are doing OK, no excessive camber wear, but the fronts are not doing so well. They have worn down all the tread on the inside of the tire (no cords showing yet, thankfully). I've decided to stop driving the car as of now and it has been sitting for the past couple weeks. I've decided that there's no use for installing the adjustment bolts, as it will not fix my problem. I'm going to be placing an order for the K-MAC front camber/toe bushing kit and having that installed by a shop. I'm at the point with my tires where I can still save them as long as I correct this issue now. These MPSS's are less than a year old and have 75% tread life left. Very disappointed in myself for trying to save a few bucks... once the bushing kit is installed I'm going to take off the wheels and do a through inspection of the tires.

Here is the link & part number to the K-MAC bushing kit if anyone is interested: https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K
Your tire wear is most likely due because of negative toe more than the camber. I just went through the same issue and just replaced my front tires. It's the second car I put the springs in and both had the same issue.
I would get the toe corrected as soon as possible before installing bushings.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by curt.r View Post
Just wanted to give an update since I lowered the car. I have the bolts, but haven't put them in yet (stupid me, I know... kicking myself for it but it will all makes sense after reading this). I've put around 2,000 miles on the car since then and like @roadtalontsi stated, I do have a pretty healthy pull to the right. Must have something to do with the springs settling, or I have no clue... The pull became more noticeable as the miles rolled on. It's nothing too bad, just getting to the point where I'm tired of constantly steering a degree counterclockwise to counteract it. I also decided to check my tires and see how they're wearing from the excessive camber I have in the front. The rear tires are doing OK, no excessive camber wear, but the fronts are not doing so well. They have worn down all the tread on the inside of the tire (no cords showing yet, thankfully). I've decided to stop driving the car as of now and it has been sitting for the past couple weeks. I've decided that there's no use for installing the adjustment bolts, as it will not fix my problem. I'm going to be placing an order for the K-MAC front camber/toe bushing kit and having that installed by a shop. I'm at the point with my tires where I can still save them as long as I correct this issue now. These MPSS's are less than a year old and have 75% tread life left. Very disappointed in myself for trying to save a few bucks... once the bushing kit is installed I'm going to take off the wheels and do a through inspection of the tires.

Here is the link & part number to the K-MAC bushing kit if anyone is interested: https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K
Just curious, did you do an alignment following the spring install?
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sventastic82 View Post
Your tire wear is most likely due because of negative toe more than the camber. I just went through the same issue and just replaced my front tires. It's the second car I put the springs in and both had the same issue.
I would get the toe corrected as soon as possible before installing bushings.
Interesting... I guess it'll be worth a shot to get the toe adjusted, but the camber is still way off. I have a decent amount of camber in my driver front side. I had the car aligned after the springs settled a couple months ago and I attached the specs below.

Originally Posted by west coast View Post
Just curious, did you do an alignment following the spring install?
Yeah, I got an alignment done a week and a half after the springs got installed to allow for settling. I attached my alignment specs below:

​​​​​​​
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by curt.r View Post
Interesting... I guess it'll be worth a shot to get the toe adjusted, but the camber is still way off. I have a decent amount of camber in my driver front side. I had the car aligned after the springs settled a couple months ago and I attached the specs below.


Yeah, I got an alignment done a week and a half after the springs got installed to allow for settling. I attached my alignment specs below:
here is what my tires looked like after a 1000miles

. It could be that your tires wore out just during the time between spring install and alignment.

Going by your current alignment your car should be pulling to the left.

Last edited by sventastic82; 09-14-2018 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sventastic82 View Post


here is what my tires looked like after a 1000miles

. It could be that your tires wore out just during the time between spring install and alignment.

Going by your current alignment your car should be pulling to the left.
If you think you are going to save those tires you are wrong, I wouldn't drive on those at all or you will have more serious issues than a poor alignment, they are way beyond done!!

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Old 09-14-2018, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by west coast View Post
If you think you are going to save those tires you are wrong, I wouldn't drive on those at all or you will have more serious issues than a poor alignment, they are way beyond done!!
Iím getting at least another 1k miles out of them. Iím going to turn them inside out and use the good rubber.

Of course they are done and already replaced.
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sventastic82 View Post


here is what my tires looked like after a 1000miles

. It could be that your tires wore out just during the time between spring install and alignment.

Going by your current alignment your car should be pulling to the left.
It could be possible, but being that I only put about 300 highway miles on my car (maybe even less) while I was waiting for the springs to settle it is not likely. The car is definitely pulling to the right, I've never heard of a W204 pulling to the left after an H&R spring install.
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Old 09-15-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by curt.r View Post
It could be possible, but being that I only put about 300 highway miles on my car (maybe even less) while I was waiting for the springs to settle it is not likely. The car is definitely pulling to the right, I've never heard of a W204 pulling to the left after an H&R spring install.
Going by your alignment sheet it should slightly pull to the left. The before values indicate pulling to he right the curren to the left.

Thats why I said try to rotate your tires and see if it still pulls to the right. The wear of your tires could cause it to pull.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:07 AM
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My CLS550 had a slight pull to right. Installed Camber bolts to reduce inner tire wear. Installed caster bolt on passenger side only to stop pull. Then had alignment and all is perfect.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sventastic82 View Post


Going by your alignment sheet it should slightly pull to the left. The before values indicate pulling to he right the curren to the left.

Thats why I said try to rotate your tires and see if it still pulls to the right. The wear of your tires could cause it to pull.
Oh. IIRC, the MPSS have a dedicated outside tirewall, although I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on it. I'll mention it to the indy shop I'm going to use before I buy the bushing kit. Thanks for the advice.

Originally Posted by 95viper View Post
My CLS550 had a slight pull to right. Installed Camber bolts to reduce inner tire wear. Installed caster bolt on passenger side only to stop pull. Then had alignment and all is perfect.
My whole goal for buying the camber kit is to 1. save my current tires, 2. eliminate the excessive inner tire wear, and 3. eliminate the pull to the right. I'd love to go the adjustment bolt route, but I'd still be running approx. -2.4 camber on the front driver side and that is not enough camber to make me comfortable enough to drive it. This is my daily and I'd prefer not to chew through MPSS's every few months.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:36 PM
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I understand. The bolts help but do not fix. You will need adjustable arms or kmac but one is expensive and the other not without reported drama.
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:57 AM
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[QUOTE=curt.r;7555580]Oh. IIRC, the MPSS have a dedicated outside tirewall, although I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on it. I'll mention it to the indy shop I'm going to use before I buy the bushing kit.

Yes they have a dedicated outside wall (asymmetrical tires) and if we move the left wheel to the right and the right wheel to the left. The outside wall stays on the outside.

If you have directional tires you wouldnít be able to rotate them.
MPSS are asymmetrical and can be moved.
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by sventastic82 View Post
Originally Posted by curt.r View Post
Oh. IIRC, the MPSS have a dedicated outside tirewall, although I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on it. I'll mention it to the indy shop I'm going to use before I buy the bushing kit.
Yes they have a dedicated outside wall (asymmetrical tires) and if we move the left wheel to the right and the right wheel to the left. The outside wall stays on the outside.

If you have directional tires you wouldnít be able to rotate them.
MPSS are asymmetrical and can be moved.
Oh, that makes more sense. I misunderstood you and thought you were telling me to have the tire shop flip the tires and put the outside sidewall on the inside. I guess itís worth a shot, if I have time today Iíll go ahead and try it, and report back. Both tires have inner tire wear the passenger one just has less.
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Old 09-18-2018, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by curt.r View Post

Oh, that makes more sense. I misunderstood you and thought you were telling me to have the tire shop flip the tires and put the outside sidewall on the inside. I guess itís worth a shot, if I have time today Iíll go ahead and try it, and report back. Both tires have inner tire wear the passenger one just has less.
As promised, gave it a shot, and interchanged the front wheels. Car still pulled to the right. Placing the order for the bushing kit tomorrow.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:44 AM
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Which bushing kit are you getting?
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Old 09-18-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 95viper View Post
Which bushing kit are you getting?
Going to be getting the K-MAC Front Camber/Caster Bushing Kit. https://k-mac.com/product/mercedes-w...shing-502616k/
Part Number: 502616K

I'll definitely keep everyone updated once I get the bushings installed on the car.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:23 PM
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Cool. Total adjustment there. After camber is set put a tad more positive caster on drIver side. Then check camber again and set toe again.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:39 PM
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Time for an update. Got around to having the shop install the KMAC front camber/castor bushing kit. If anyone needs anything for your Mercedes or AMG, give Kahlers in Dublin, CA a call. Raul and his guys there are awesomeThey knocked it out of the park for a great price as well. IIRC, I might have said negative things about them in the past but they have went above and beyond, and have redeemed themselves. While it was at the shop I had the change the trans & diff fluid, so I'm set. Anyways, back on topic.

My $.02 if you're thinking about installing H&R lowering springs on your W204... don't. The lowered look is aggressive, but have aggressively eaten into my wallet . After installing the springs, the car developed a strong pull to the right, which was not able to be corrected by an alignment. It was to be expected, so I bought the adjustment bolts to correct the issue, but by then it was too late. The incorrect alignment ate through my MPSS's and I realized that I would need the KMAC bushing kit to correct the issue, not help it with the alignment bolts. The installation of the H&R springs (granted you could install this yourself, I preferred to have a shop do it) was $300. The KMAC bushings set me back $510 shipped. To install the bushing was $768 after tax (including the price of the alignment, which took multiple hours to get right). All in all, to lower the car 0.75" I have about $1,600 into it. It looks great, and the handling was improved but if I had the chance to do it all over again, I'd probably pass.

On a side note, Kevin and the guys over at KMAC are awesome! Also, Kevin if you're reading this, sorry for my spotty responses haha... the phone call quality was very poor and I was trying my best to make out what you were saying because the phone kept breaking up. Nonetheless, when I called Kevin, he spoke to Raul on the phone and personally made sure that the shop correctly used the adjusters on the bushings and everything went OK with the install. . The bushings are awesome and the steering pull is almost non-existent now. It's just the excessive wear on my tires causing the ever-so-slight pull to the right. Once I get new tires the pull will disappear, no doubt about it. Highly recommend KMAC bushings if you're in need of a camber correction on the W204.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:06 PM
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I totally agree with you Curt.r . There are way too many people just going the cheap route and end up very disappointed with the car. Sure it looks good but it changes so many thing on the car. The shock is no longer in its center point so that makes it ride stiffer, the sway bar is now loaded at all times (unless you get adjustable sway bar links - which no one ever talks about) which makes the spring rate even higher. Now the camber is even more aggressive than previously which is alot for a street car to begin with. Sadly some 200$ set of springs made your car drive like cheap honda that nukes a $1000 set of tires. Is the change in suspension geometry worth it to lose an inch off the center of gravity? is the handling actually improved? Lots of unanswered questions remain. I truly recommend only using quality coilovers, if you're going lower than stock - get adjustment to fix the camber and sway bar endlinks.

I cant begin to tell you how many peoples car's have been lowered and I talk them into raising them up (typically coilover sleeves setups that are slammed). They are blown away at the ride quality improvement and better handling. Running -3 degrees of camber handles awesome on a tire made for it. No street tire is made for that and it will make it handle worse.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by roadtalontsi View Post
I totally agree with you Curt.r . There are way too many people just going the cheap route and end up very disappointed with the car. Sure it looks good but it changes so many thing on the car. The shock is no longer in its center point so that makes it ride stiffer, the sway bar is now loaded at all times (unless you get adjustable sway bar links - which no one ever talks about) which makes the spring rate even higher. Now the camber is even more aggressive than previously which is alot for a street car to begin with. Sadly some 200$ set of springs made your car drive like cheap honda that nukes a $1000 set of tires. Is the change in suspension geometry worth it to lose an inch off the center of gravity? is the handling actually improved? Lots of unanswered questions remain. I truly recommend only using quality coilovers, if you're going lower than stock - get adjustment to fix the camber and sway bar endlinks.

I cant begin to tell you how many peoples car's have been lowered and I talk them into raising them up (typically coilover sleeves setups that are slammed). They are blown away at the ride quality improvement and better handling. Running -3 degrees of camber handles awesome on a tire made for it. No street tire is made for that and it will make it handle worse.
I'm definitely guilty of that. I saw how jaw-dropping the car looks lowered that I was blinded by my own ignorance. One day I will eventually switch to a coilover setup, but for how much money I just spent to correct the springs, I'm going to "enjoy" them for a while. I definitely would say that it was not worth the money to ruin the car's suspension geometry and the car definitely decided to fight back at my stupidity . I had no clue that I needed adjustable sway bar end links... great another thing because of these springs LOL. Going to have to look into those now . Like I said, if I had the opportunity to do it again, I'd sprint in the opposite direction!
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