RNS-11Z

I actually think competition is healthy. Good to here another product is being released

CarHopper

I would say most if not all AMG owners who are getting into the S/C or even moderate mod game would know about ESS. You almost can't even type C63 vs M3 into youtube without ESS being mentioned. Then, the consumer might see an ESS bmw beat a C63 in a race and think ESS is better. You know how it works.

However, I agree to a certain extent. ESS should definitely jump on the m157 and new 4.0TT platform ASAP to get a name in the game. However, with more and more C63's popping up in the 30's, out of warranty, in need of headbolts (as justification for some) I honestly wouldn't be surprised if there was a rise in S/C sales for the m156.

Now, if someone is doing their due diligence as mentioned, and even search for S/C C63's they'll come across ESS one way or another. And if ESS can make an affordable S/C, which I can almost promise will be less than weistec, then I don't see it as a bad move. I just wouldn't go all in on it.

jrcart

You mean like this race between a Weistec C63 and what was at the time the fastest E92 M3 in the world which was tuned by ESS?

Kriston

Jim, your comparing the M156 to the S65 that's not fair! We want to see what ESS can do with the M156


Drew is an awesome guy and his car is a bullet! But ofcourse no match for the Weistec beast.

jrcart

...I didn't even have to break out my fast AMG to handle that ESS M3. Here is a heads up race between my C BS and my CLK BS the very same day as the C BS vs ESS M3 race at Shift Sector. Now imagine what a CLK BS vs ESS M3 race would have looked like

jrcart

Drew is a cool cat, I have huge respect for him. One of the nicest guys I have met at an event.

I can't wait to see what ESS comes up with. Like I said earlier competition is great!

jrcart

I am sure this is just a prototype but they need to do a better job of matching the paint color or something. Either do a gunmetalish colored wrinkle like the airbox covers or just black wrinkle. It does look plastic in this photo. The overal design is not bad looking IMO but they need to work on the fine details. People are going to be bolting these onto $100K plus cars in some cases so fit and finish need to be spot on. Pop the hood on a Weistec blown car and the system looks OEM.

jrcart

With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about, I hate when people refer to it as "MB tax"....It's simply ignorant to compare the cost of Mustang aftermarket parts to the cost of MB aftermarket parts. Are you familar with the term amortization? Let me give you a quick lesson.

Fact, there were over 100,000 Mustang GT's built in 2013 alone, thats about how many C 63's were built between 2009 and 2014. That does not include Sheby GT 500's or other models of Mustang. If Mustang Tuning Company XYZ wants to develop a blower for a Mustang GT they are going to invest the same amount of time, effort, engineering, R&D, testing, tooling, parts and materials as a Weistec, Kleeman or ESS does when developing a blower for an AMG, right? For sake of conversation lets just say that cost is $100K becasue it's a nice round number.

Let's also agree that tuners are in business to make a profit, right? Now when Mustang Tuning Company XYZ is ready to take their product to market they come up with a price, that price is determined by costs and what the market will bear, they have to recoup their development and tooling costs before they can make a profit, right? They put together a plan and a forecast and basically take a guess at how many units they will sell in a year. They come up with hose figures based on how many Mustang GT's are on the road and how many Mustang owners modify their cars. Due to the fact that there are about 20X more Mustang GT's on the road that their blower will work on they can "AMORTIZE" their cost over more cars thus charge less per unit to recoup their R&D costs. If they invested $100K and they plan on selling 1000 blowers they only need to mark up their blowers by $100 a peice in order to break even on their R&D investment. Weistec, Kleeman and other AMG tuners have a much smaller audience to begin with simply based on production numbers and an even samller percentage of AMG owners modify their cars as compared to Mustang owners. you can not drive more than a mile or two without running into a modded Mustang, I very seldomly run into modded AMG's ont he public roads. Just head out to the drag strip and count how many Mustangs you see then let me know how many AMG's you see. For that reason the AMG tuners may only forescast to sell 100 blower units so in order for them to recoup their R&D investment they will need to mark up their blowers by $1000 a peice.

It's really very simple economics and has nothing to do with any "MB tax" or greedy tuners. if you can't afford the aftermarket stuff for AMG's and you like to mod your car maybe you should buy a Mustang or Camaro....just sayin

Merc63

Not to mention the tuning headaches involved with the m156. A high school kid could tune a mustang.

jrcart

True, I was going to touch on that but I figured I would try to keep it as simple as possible.

rentzington

yeah i agree, i just like the initial look of the shape. color match it or make it black/cf and it would be even nicer.

rentzington

very well put, the price difference is typically for a reason. if you just want to get a car to mod for the most HP possible at the cheapest price it's hard to beat the mustang and camaro.
The demand for aftermarket parts is so much higher due to so many more of those machines on the road there is more mass production in the product.

it does hurt to think how much more performance parts for the MB cost, BUT i do believe it requires more specialization to produce them.

chrisridebike8

Thanks for the insight. I guess I didn't consider that. It makes sense for a blower setup. But I still don't get why a company like kooks or ARH sells a header setup for one car that costs say $1800 and then a similar setup for the C63 for say $3000. A company that big shouldn't need that much R&D for a set of headers that the price should be nearly double. Big picture, their total R&D costs for all their platforms doesn't increase that much by adding the C63. Materials are also pretty much comparable. And by gaining a customer, they will get future business. Like I said, I'm referring more to headers. It's 8 tubes, 2 collectors and 2 flanges...i get that omptimizing the size/length/packaging for a specific engine takes some R&D, but it's not rocket science. We did stuff like that in college.

jrcart

There is R&D needed for every header and collector design. The first set of long tube headers ever built for a 63 motor was built for me, the company designed about 5 different sets of prototype headers as well as several mid pipes and x and h pipe designs before coming up with the final desgn. The design and curves and bends that work on a Mustang may not be optimum for a 63 motor. They still have to build all the tooling and jigs, those cost the same whether we are talking about a Mustang, a BMW or an AMG so once again those jig and developmet costs are being amortized over a much smaller number of vehicles.

chrisridebike8

This is what this forum is about! Thanks man. I can't say I even know what those tools cost. I just have what I've learned and watched on youtube. I've seen (via the internet, not personal experience) things as basic as mocking up with pvc pipe and then welding multiple sections of cut pipe together to the other end of the spectrum where big companies basically scan the car into a computer, computer model the headers and then a machine mandrel bends one long piece of tube into the whole runner. Always good to have insight like yours.

That being said, you can get a set of IS-F headers with merge collectors for $1300-1400. I'm pretty sure the Lexus crowd is smaller and mods less. There's even a guy that has a small company called Figs that created his own header design (for the IS300, not the IS-f) and got all the jigs and tools and sells those inline-6 headers for around $1,000. I just dont see where the extra $1500 a set comes from.

ToXicXxX

Look at the cost of old STASIS V10 R8 headers... You'll cry.

roadtalontsi

an is300 header is a joke. Thats quite possibly one of the easiest cars to put a header on. Have you looked under your hood? There's no real estate for test fitting, fabbing, or much less installing on a c63. if you spend 1k$ on an is300 header your a moron anyways. for around 3k$ you can have a decent full turbo setup on that car making an easy 100hp vs 1k$ for like 12hp (if that). I guess you have to be careful since those is300 rods are rather weak sauce.

chrisridebike8

Yeah. You can almost stand next to the engine with the headers uninstalled. I was commenting more on the cost of tools and whatnot for production. The rods are pretty weak. But I also prefer NA cars compared to turbo. I just don't like the power delivery at high hp levels with a turbo car. I haven't tried a bigger displacement motor like the M157 or the M5 V8TT. I'd imagine those are better. But 2JZ or N54 motors definitely do not feel linear under high boost

itzjonjon69

Since i'm local to ESS here in AZ. I went to a local car meet where they brought out their SLS and C63 black series both were supercharged. I'm also curious as to why it's never been released...

Kriston

When did you see them? Perhaps they are doing long term testing as well.

itzjonjon69

This was in April 2014

Kriston

So we know some of these unicorns exist!


The anticipation builds.

BAD430BENZ

but no blower pics of either car

I bet tuning has a huge factor in not releasing the mythical ESS supercharger . I will believe it when I see it physically working on the street

itzjonjon69

I actually did get a picture of the ESS c63 engine bay but i switch phones so damn often i would have to dig for it on my computer. I also got a ride in the C63 and it was fast, but not 997 turbo fast

avery.whss

wheres HMS?

Their C63 sounds like it was hand created by the devil himself

those shifts are bonkers