AMG3.2's Mod Journal
10-14-2016, 01:32 PM
#176
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
More modz:
A signed piece of paper with my valving specs and QA. Wowzers. This is the real deal.
Packing looked nice.
Now for some seriousness.. These look amazing. The built quality, at least in the hand, feels awesome.
Spring rates are 7k front, 11k rear.
So far I've only got the rears in, but they feel really, really nice. They are stiff, yet blow off small bumps like cobblestones quite nicely.
I personally think I could go with 12k or 13k rears and soften up the damping on them, but 11k on full stiff will do. I think... More testing is needed.
A signed piece of paper with my valving specs and QA. Wowzers. This is the real deal.
Packing looked nice.
Now for some seriousness.. These look amazing. The built quality, at least in the hand, feels awesome.
Spring rates are 7k front, 11k rear.
So far I've only got the rears in, but they feel really, really nice. They are stiff, yet blow off small bumps like cobblestones quite nicely.
I personally think I could go with 12k or 13k rears and soften up the damping on them, but 11k on full stiff will do. I think... More testing is needed.
Last edited by AMG3.2; 07-17-2017 at 02:19 PM.
10-14-2016, 11:00 PM
#178
MBWorld Fanatic!
Out of curiosity, why do the rear shocks have threaded bodies? Aren't the springs separate? I know the KW coils just have shocks and the springs have an adjustable collar for ride height.
10-14-2016, 11:37 PM
#179
Super Member
You can fine tune the shock travel exactly the way you want by having rear threaded shock bodies.
Lowering the car no longer means that you have shorter shock travel.
Lowering the car no longer means that you have shorter shock travel.
The following users liked this post:
chrisridebike8 (10-15-2016)
10-15-2016, 07:13 AM
#180
MBWorld Fanatic!
10-15-2016, 04:01 PM
#181
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
Here's what I'd conclude. At 11k, the rears are a bit soft. I think 13k would be more suitable. The fronts are a bit soft at 7k as well, I think 8k here would do the trick.
To stiffen up the chassis due to lack of spring rate, I'm at full stiff front and rear.
Steering response (slalom type movements) is quicker and more responsive, which is factor of the reduced body roll I'm experiencing.
They're stiff, don't get me wrong, but they're plush at the same time. Meaning, smaller bumps don't startle you or the chassis as much as what I've experienced with Bilstein and KW coilovers.
No noise to report other than some little chirping noise that sounds like it's coming from inside the cabin... So odd.
The camber plates are stupid though and almost pointless. You can't adjust them unless you drop the strut from the mounting point since the camber adjustment bolts reside under there. This makes adjusting camber a massive pain...
Overall though, pretty happy.
Final ride height after hours of adjusting:
Last edited by AMG3.2; 07-17-2017 at 02:20 PM.
10-15-2016, 06:29 PM
#184
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,491
Received 429 Likes
on
352 Posts
2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
Are you planning to upgrade the springs?
Does look good.
At least now you can adjust camber even if it is a pain in the rump. Once you have it set it should be good and not require further adjustment. Are you planning on racing and changing from a race to a street setting?
Nice looking set of coilovers.
Does look good.
At least now you can adjust camber even if it is a pain in the rump. Once you have it set it should be good and not require further adjustment. Are you planning on racing and changing from a race to a street setting?
Nice looking set of coilovers.
10-16-2016, 01:53 PM
#185
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
Thanks -- I too think the stance is just about on point now.
No plans to race this at all. If I wanted to have some track fun, I'd buy an E36 M3 hands down. This is purely the fun daily car.
Not sure yet. I don't think I'll buy uprated springs. After more driving, I think the fronts at 7k may actually be the right choice.
The rears however, could use an up rated spring. But unfortunately, Fortune Auto/Muller doesn't offer them since we have a one off spring seat design. They've basically tested the C63 at 11k and decided that would be the only spring they'd produce which really sucks.
To combat this, I've had to go full stiff in the rear with minimal suspension travel -- most likely around an inch or so.
What I've found about this car with every suspension setup so far, P30, H&R Springs, and now Muller MSC-1, is that upon dips, the rear of the car loves to compress while the front takes the dip at face value and "rolls along" with minimal suspension compression. This is the biggest suspension flaw thus far and you need a hard spring or very stiff damper setting to negate this. The former is generally the preferred way to to go about this.
The damper quality is fantastic, however.
Are you planning to upgrade the springs?
Does look good.
At least now you can adjust camber even if it is a pain in the rump. Once you have it set it should be good and not require further adjustment. Are you planning on racing and changing from a race to a street setting?
Nice looking set of coilovers.
Does look good.
At least now you can adjust camber even if it is a pain in the rump. Once you have it set it should be good and not require further adjustment. Are you planning on racing and changing from a race to a street setting?
Nice looking set of coilovers.
Not sure yet. I don't think I'll buy uprated springs. After more driving, I think the fronts at 7k may actually be the right choice.
The rears however, could use an up rated spring. But unfortunately, Fortune Auto/Muller doesn't offer them since we have a one off spring seat design. They've basically tested the C63 at 11k and decided that would be the only spring they'd produce which really sucks.
To combat this, I've had to go full stiff in the rear with minimal suspension travel -- most likely around an inch or so.
What I've found about this car with every suspension setup so far, P30, H&R Springs, and now Muller MSC-1, is that upon dips, the rear of the car loves to compress while the front takes the dip at face value and "rolls along" with minimal suspension compression. This is the biggest suspension flaw thus far and you need a hard spring or very stiff damper setting to negate this. The former is generally the preferred way to to go about this.
The damper quality is fantastic, however.
Last edited by AMG3.2; 10-16-2016 at 01:57 PM.
10-16-2016, 02:12 PM
#186
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,044
Received 2,810 Likes
on
1,664 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Beautiful coilovers. Could you share where you got them from, or did you work with Mueller directly on the valuing and spring specs in consideration of your intended usage? Would love to pickup a set if the pricing and performance is competitive vs the KW CSs. Thx.
EDIT: Forget it, I see I asked before and did some research already. Looks great on your car - perfect stance.
EDIT: Forget it, I see I asked before and did some research already. Looks great on your car - perfect stance.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 10-16-2016 at 02:26 PM.
10-26-2016, 01:50 AM
#187
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
Update on coilovers:
7k is like ridiculously soft. On full stiff, I can't go over dips at 35 MPH without rubbing on, get this, not even the side of the fender, but the top of the liner.
I don't know why Fortune/Muller would suggest 7k. I'm thinking they tested that on a regular W204 and called it a day for our platform.
Truly disappointing, so I'm going to call them tomorrow and hope they give me a deal on 9k springs...
After spending close to 2K, I even debated reinstalling my old H&R setup up front. They're progressive, but way harder than 7k...
7k is like ridiculously soft. On full stiff, I can't go over dips at 35 MPH without rubbing on, get this, not even the side of the fender, but the top of the liner.
I don't know why Fortune/Muller would suggest 7k. I'm thinking they tested that on a regular W204 and called it a day for our platform.
Truly disappointing, so I'm going to call them tomorrow and hope they give me a deal on 9k springs...
After spending close to 2K, I even debated reinstalling my old H&R setup up front. They're progressive, but way harder than 7k...
10-26-2016, 04:00 AM
#188
SPONSOR
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 3,627
Received 797 Likes
on
570 Posts
2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
so, for heavy cars you generally always want to go with a stiffer spring. heavy cars react differently to heavy springs than light cars do, the concern is will the shock be able to handle the stiffer spring? 7k front and 11k rear is a bit odd if I do say so myself. these cars are front engine therefore upon heavy braking the spring configuration allows for heavy weight transfer and nose dive. the only way to somewhat combat this would be to run a stiffer damping front shock.
basically to me sounds like a big mess.
basically to me sounds like a big mess.
10-26-2016, 12:33 PM
#189
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
so, for heavy cars you generally always want to go with a stiffer spring. heavy cars react differently to heavy springs than light cars do, the concern is will the shock be able to handle the stiffer spring? 7k front and 11k rear is a bit odd if I do say so myself. these cars are front engine therefore upon heavy braking the spring configuration allows for heavy weight transfer and nose dive. the only way to somewhat combat this would be to run a stiffer damping front shock.
basically to me sounds like a big mess.
basically to me sounds like a big mess.
I did some reading on M3Post and that seems to be the consensus.
I called Fortune this morning and they said I can handle up to a 3k difference in spring rate.
Now I don't know whether to go 9k or 10k. Leaning towards 9k.
10-26-2016, 05:59 PM
#192
SPONSOR
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 3,627
Received 797 Likes
on
570 Posts
2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
no, not necessarily. having more spring rate in the rear if a nose heavy car serves no purpose other than to prevent oversteer. when you have a stiffer rear spring you really need to have your front to rear shock maps tuned for that configuration. by no means is it optimal for racing as preventing oversteer by upgrading rear spring rate also can affect turn in weight transfer. if you don't have correct weight transfer your initial turn in will be imprecise.
look at how Toyota tunes all their cars...heavy for understeer to prevent crashes. they do this by up'ing the rear suspension spring or dampening.
with suspension at anytime you lower dampening or reduce spring rate in the rear of a car it will induce oversteer or a "loose" car.
11-03-2016, 05:15 PM
#193
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
So, update on these coilovers.
Amazing. With the 9K springs and 5 clicks out from full stiff, the car rides so good. Like SO GOOD.
I did, and still might have, an annoying tweety bird noise issue on the front dampers, but we've narrowed it down to shaft seals on both sides as when I sprayed the shaft with WD40, as directed to by the guys at FA, the noise vanished.
I do also want to comment on the service which has been outstanding. Now that we've found the source of the noise, their engineer offered to send me replacements if the noise does come back before I send mine into them for inspection. This is something that is unheard of at most companies.
KW etc. might make a good product (Idk about that one...) but I'm certain that if I was in this position with a brand new KW or Bilstein damper, they would have told me to send it back for inspection prior to sending me a new unit.
The service here has just been phenomenal and when you find a great product with service to match, you've got yourself a winner.
Amazing. With the 9K springs and 5 clicks out from full stiff, the car rides so good. Like SO GOOD.
I did, and still might have, an annoying tweety bird noise issue on the front dampers, but we've narrowed it down to shaft seals on both sides as when I sprayed the shaft with WD40, as directed to by the guys at FA, the noise vanished.
I do also want to comment on the service which has been outstanding. Now that we've found the source of the noise, their engineer offered to send me replacements if the noise does come back before I send mine into them for inspection. This is something that is unheard of at most companies.
KW etc. might make a good product (Idk about that one...) but I'm certain that if I was in this position with a brand new KW or Bilstein damper, they would have told me to send it back for inspection prior to sending me a new unit.
The service here has just been phenomenal and when you find a great product with service to match, you've got yourself a winner.
The following users liked this post:
BLKROKT (11-16-2016)
11-04-2016, 02:05 AM
#196
MBWorld Fanatic!
11-04-2016, 12:05 PM
#197
Super Member
Glad it worked out for you.
KW is a good product but the KW-USA Customer/Technical service is garbage. KW-USA designed these for the C63 AMG (Non Black Series), OE part on the Black Series C63 (But no height adjust ability in the rear)
They KNOW they the rear damper design is not properly designed. It leaves absolutely no room for lower height adjustment relative to the front and the sway bar links provided are the wrong length. They are only slightly different than OEM and will eventually cause the links to bind up and clunk over bumps.
So I've taken matters into my own hands and swapped out the useless top hats to K-Mac camber plates and will be working with a small company to create new sway bar links. I've never owned a car with such difficulty finding,setting up coilovers.
KW is a good product but the KW-USA Customer/Technical service is garbage. KW-USA designed these for the C63 AMG (Non Black Series), OE part on the Black Series C63 (But no height adjust ability in the rear)
They KNOW they the rear damper design is not properly designed. It leaves absolutely no room for lower height adjustment relative to the front and the sway bar links provided are the wrong length. They are only slightly different than OEM and will eventually cause the links to bind up and clunk over bumps.
So I've taken matters into my own hands and swapped out the useless top hats to K-Mac camber plates and will be working with a small company to create new sway bar links. I've never owned a car with such difficulty finding,setting up coilovers.
The following users liked this post:
chrisridebike8 (11-04-2016)
11-04-2016, 12:50 PM
#198
MBWorld Fanatic!
Glad it worked out for you.
KW is a good product but the KW-USA Customer/Technical service is garbage. KW-USA designed these for the C63 AMG (Non Black Series), OE part on the Black Series C63 (But no height adjust ability in the rear)
They KNOW they the rear damper design is not properly designed. It leaves absolutely no room for lower height adjustment relative to the front and the sway bar links provided are the wrong length. They are only slightly different than OEM and will eventually cause the links to bind up and clunk over bumps.
So I've taken matters into my own hands and swapped out the useless top hats to K-Mac camber plates and will be working with a small company to create new sway bar links. I've never owned a car with such difficulty finding,setting up coilovers.
KW is a good product but the KW-USA Customer/Technical service is garbage. KW-USA designed these for the C63 AMG (Non Black Series), OE part on the Black Series C63 (But no height adjust ability in the rear)
They KNOW they the rear damper design is not properly designed. It leaves absolutely no room for lower height adjustment relative to the front and the sway bar links provided are the wrong length. They are only slightly different than OEM and will eventually cause the links to bind up and clunk over bumps.
So I've taken matters into my own hands and swapped out the useless top hats to K-Mac camber plates and will be working with a small company to create new sway bar links. I've never owned a car with such difficulty finding,setting up coilovers.
11-15-2016, 01:04 AM
#199
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,313
Received 170 Likes
on
145 Posts
C63 AMG, P30
Glad it worked out for you.
KW is a good product but the KW-USA Customer/Technical service is garbage. KW-USA designed these for the C63 AMG (Non Black Series), OE part on the Black Series C63 (But no height adjust ability in the rear)
They KNOW they the rear damper design is not properly designed. It leaves absolutely no room for lower height adjustment relative to the front and the sway bar links provided are the wrong length. They are only slightly different than OEM and will eventually cause the links to bind up and clunk over bumps.
So I've taken matters into my own hands and swapped out the useless top hats to K-Mac camber plates and will be working with a small company to create new sway bar links. I've never owned a car with such difficulty finding,setting up coilovers.
KW is a good product but the KW-USA Customer/Technical service is garbage. KW-USA designed these for the C63 AMG (Non Black Series), OE part on the Black Series C63 (But no height adjust ability in the rear)
They KNOW they the rear damper design is not properly designed. It leaves absolutely no room for lower height adjustment relative to the front and the sway bar links provided are the wrong length. They are only slightly different than OEM and will eventually cause the links to bind up and clunk over bumps.
So I've taken matters into my own hands and swapped out the useless top hats to K-Mac camber plates and will be working with a small company to create new sway bar links. I've never owned a car with such difficulty finding,setting up coilovers.
11-15-2016, 08:15 AM
#200
MBWorld Fanatic!
