W204 C63 FI Headers. End of the year $2190 shipped special!
07-05-2017, 10:49 AM
#226
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Chinese ripoffs do NOTHING to push the envelope. What they do really well is to take cheap materials and push hordes of essentially slave labor at something, and drive people out of business. Full stop.
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07-05-2017, 10:54 AM
#227
Super Member
You're out of your mind. "Improve operational efficiency"? Get the **** out of here with that. You think Mike is running a huge manufacturing plant, like FI, where that's even feasible?
Chinese ripoffs do NOTHING to push the envelope. What they do really well is to take cheap materials and push hordes of essentially slave labor at something, and drive people out of business. Full stop.
Chinese ripoffs do NOTHING to push the envelope. What they do really well is to take cheap materials and push hordes of essentially slave labor at something, and drive people out of business. Full stop.
People invent. They make money off it for a while. Then someone comes along and copies your idea, and either makes it slightly better or cheaper, and now directly competes against the original. This is progress.
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C63fora2w1 (07-05-2017)
07-05-2017, 11:12 AM
#228
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Well I have no idea the scope of their businesses, but yes, that is one of Mike's only options. Once someone can mimic your product for cheaper, with slightly worse results, the only options are: go the legal route, improve the current efficiency, or come up with a new product.
People invent. They make money off it for a while. Then someone comes along and copies your idea, and either makes it slightly better or cheaper, and now directly competes against the original. This is progress.
People invent. They make money off it for a while. Then someone comes along and copies your idea, and either makes it slightly better or cheaper, and now directly competes against the original. This is progress.
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glennhl (07-05-2017)
07-05-2017, 11:31 AM
#229
Super Member
Eh. Your idea of "progress" is different than mine. Progress was the design, the idea, the decision to build it in the first instance. I will always stand on the side of the entrepreneur and innovator, not those who take the sleazy route and copy an idea then send it to the communists to churn it out of their slave factories so they can make a few bucks. No thanks.
07-05-2017, 11:41 AM
#230
How long have you been an attorney and where are you barred? I'm having trouble with where the facts you're relying on are coming from. I don't think there is a "clear" jurisdiction issue. Many foreign corporations are registered in the United States when they are doing the volume of business Fi does here. Plus there are long arm statutes to punish foreign corporations. Come on man. International Shoe, Volkswagen... That's first year law school stuff. US courts issue IP decisions against Chinese companies all the time (although they are often worthless because Chinese courts typically ignore the judgment). It doesn't really matter that they are selling outside the US. MBH could limit the trade dress claim in geographic scope.
He never said he is going after other manufactures besides Fi (that I remember seeing). Apple v. Samsung isn't dispositive when it comes to trade dress claims - nor does it matter that different courts in the US are deciding cases different. He'd follow whatever the law is in the Circuit he is - if he is in the Ninth Circuit, who cares that the Second Circuits rules differently? And if he is in the Second, who cares about the Ninth? If there was a huge circuit split, then the SCOTUS would take writ and resolve it. There is a good body of trade dress law that MBH would rely on outside of Apple (and besides, I think Apple lost the trade dress portion of their claims anyway). Besides, I'm sure he just said the Apple case because it is recent and lay people might have heard about it.
The fact they are only going after FI is a problem for them because it undercuts their claim that they care about the design they have apparently protected. Many other manufacturers have headers that look very similar to FI/MBH. Why is MBH only pursuing FI?
Damages are fairly easy. The Lanham Act allows for recovery of Fi's profits of the infringing product, any damages MBH can show, and the cost of the action. Depending on the facts, courts are even authorized to award treble damages. Good luck convincing any judge that MBH has damaged his reputation per this thread. The people posting here make up a very, very small percentage of buyers and MBH hasn't done anything particularly egregious - other than being angry that a company allegedly infringed on his intellectual property and commented on the welds of said company whose own website sings praise of how masterful its TIG welds are. Even if he didn't get monetary damages, he still could get an injunction (which is generally easier to obtain).
I agree that there is no claim against the customers, nor will they be required to pull the headers off their cars or any such thing. I also agree that this would probably be pretty expensive to litigate and I'm not sure he'd ever recover enough to make it worth while. This is the exact reason that Rays never went after Rota... Despite them clearly infringing and offering a lesser product.
On second thought, SuperFastYo has a point. I'm not going to post any more legal analysis. This isn't the thread to be analyzing IP claims in a case that may or may not be filed.
On second thought, SuperFastYo has a point. I'm not going to post any more legal analysis. This isn't the thread to be analyzing IP claims in a case that may or may not be filed.
07-05-2017, 06:08 PM
#231
Senior Member
Its not FI, its Auto Talent that will find out the name of the law firm.
Anyone who comes on here and sells a copy of another sponsors products, is literally at the bottom of the barrel. Auto Talent is not man enough to have a phone conversation about this. It would be one thing if Auto Talent didn't know who we were, but he reached out to me to become a dealer. So its clear the the did.
The only thing that is settled is I paid a lot of money to higher a IP attorney and Auto Talent will be one of the first companies to find out the name of the law firm.
The only thing that is settled is I paid a lot of money to higher a IP attorney and Auto Talent will be one of the first companies to find out the name of the law firm.
07-05-2017, 09:08 PM
#233
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W211 E55
What does finding out the name of a lawyer mean? Is that meant to be intimidating? With something like this, is this like having your mommy go to the playground because someone pushed you? Can't fight your own battles so money and daddy is going to represent you? I would understand if this is something proprietary. It's a header!! It might mean a lot to you but the judicial system may not feel the same way. If you are going to sue then do it, telling the world or at least the internet world is not going to win the case unless you are a huge public figure. What happens if you lose the suit? Then more people will know your position.
FI is not a new company, they have been around for about 3-4 years. AutoTalent sells competing brands (of other products) that probably offer the same design but those manufactures don't go on a public forum talking **** and causing unnecessary drama. For example, AutoTalent sells IPE which also offers headers for the W204 C63.
[img] http://www.ipe-f1.com/media/k2/galle...63-Headers.jpg [/img]
If people want pretty welding and willing to pay what MBH is asking then go for it. MBH, not everyone is willing to buy your product. For example, I will not pay $150 for Nike's but will pay $100. My point is, most people have a price point which is why there is such a variety of products available.
To save a few thousand dollars on a product made in Asia from a company that has been around for a few years that stands behind their products is great. It's not like FI is a company without a website or any contact information that is sold exclusively through ebay. Not to say there is anything wrong with that either.
The computer that I'm typing on is from Asia, the screen I'm looking at is made in Asia, the phone I talk on is from Asia and probably 1/3 of the stuff in my house is from Asia. What's wrong with Asia? My wife is Chinese
, Taiwanese beef noodle soup is delicious, many high quality things are made in Taiwan and Asia and FI is made in Taiwan. My point is things made in Asia are not the same as it used to be, FI seems to be a reputable company and AutoTalent is a reputable company. AutoTalent started in 2007 and works on a lot of nice cars. It doesn't seem they are selling an inferior product based on the type of work and other products they offer.
FI is not a new company, they have been around for about 3-4 years. AutoTalent sells competing brands (of other products) that probably offer the same design but those manufactures don't go on a public forum talking **** and causing unnecessary drama. For example, AutoTalent sells IPE which also offers headers for the W204 C63.
[img] http://www.ipe-f1.com/media/k2/galle...63-Headers.jpg [/img]
If people want pretty welding and willing to pay what MBH is asking then go for it. MBH, not everyone is willing to buy your product. For example, I will not pay $150 for Nike's but will pay $100. My point is, most people have a price point which is why there is such a variety of products available.
To save a few thousand dollars on a product made in Asia from a company that has been around for a few years that stands behind their products is great. It's not like FI is a company without a website or any contact information that is sold exclusively through ebay. Not to say there is anything wrong with that either.
The computer that I'm typing on is from Asia, the screen I'm looking at is made in Asia, the phone I talk on is from Asia and probably 1/3 of the stuff in my house is from Asia. What's wrong with Asia? My wife is Chinese
, Taiwanese beef noodle soup is delicious, many high quality things are made in Taiwan and Asia and FI is made in Taiwan. My point is things made in Asia are not the same as it used to be, FI seems to be a reputable company and AutoTalent is a reputable company. AutoTalent started in 2007 and works on a lot of nice cars. It doesn't seem they are selling an inferior product based on the type of work and other products they offer.
07-05-2017, 09:22 PM
#234
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's not AutoTalent's responsibility as a re-seller to investigate if a manufacture is infringing on another. That's the infringing manufactures problem, not the re-sellers.
They just re-selll what someone else makes. End of story.
If it's a sh¡t look alike of MBH with sh¡tty welds that may or may not fail in a short period of time. Who TF cares. That's how this industry works. You pay for the good sh¡t or you don't and take a risk on the knock off.
Everything in life is just a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I was gonna drop the coin for sh¡ts but didn't. Looks like I won LOL...
Someone close this fkn thread already.
They just re-selll what someone else makes. End of story.
If it's a sh¡t look alike of MBH with sh¡tty welds that may or may not fail in a short period of time. Who TF cares. That's how this industry works. You pay for the good sh¡t or you don't and take a risk on the knock off.
Everything in life is just a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I was gonna drop the coin for sh¡ts but didn't. Looks like I won LOL...
Someone close this fkn thread already.
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C63fora2w1 (07-05-2017)
07-05-2017, 10:50 PM
#235
Senior Member
Agree and let companies sell products to members without another company bashing them.
It's not AutoTalent's responsibility as a re-seller to investigate if a manufacture is infringing on another. That's the infringing manufactures problem, not the re-sellers.
They just re-selll what someone else makes. End of story.
If it's a sh¡t look alike of MBH with sh¡tty welds that may or may not fail in a short period of time. Who TF cares. That's how this industry works. You pay for the good sh¡t or you don't and take a risk on the knock off.
Everything in life is just a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I was gonna drop the coin for sh¡ts but didn't. Looks like I won LOL...
Someone close this fkn thread already.
They just re-selll what someone else makes. End of story.
If it's a sh¡t look alike of MBH with sh¡tty welds that may or may not fail in a short period of time. Who TF cares. That's how this industry works. You pay for the good sh¡t or you don't and take a risk on the knock off.
Everything in life is just a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I was gonna drop the coin for sh¡ts but didn't. Looks like I won LOL...
Someone close this fkn thread already.
07-07-2017, 01:09 PM
#237
Member
The computer that I'm typing on is from Asia, the screen I'm looking at is made in Asia, the phone I talk on is from Asia and probably 1/3 of the stuff in my house is from Asia. What's wrong with Asia? My wife is Chinese , Taiwanese beef noodle soup is delicious, many high quality things are made in Taiwan and Asia and FI is made in Taiwan. My point is things made in Asia are not the same as it used to be, FI seems to be a reputable company and AutoTalent is a reputable company. AutoTalent started in 2007 and works on a lot of nice cars. It doesn't seem they are selling an inferior product based on the type of work and other products they offer.
, Taiwanese beef noodle soup is delicious, many high quality things are made in Taiwan and Asia and FI is made in Taiwan. My point is things made in Asia are not the same as it used to be, FI seems to be a reputable company and AutoTalent is a reputable company. AutoTalent started in 2007 and works on a lot of nice cars. It doesn't seem they are selling an inferior product based on the type of work and other products they offer.The quality of product you get when it comes from Asia can vary wildly. You can get incredible quality on items from Asia but you can also get total garbage.
If you buy a children's toy made in China 60 times out of 100 it'll be top quality, 35 times out of 100 it'll be total garbage, and 5 times out of 100 it'll be filled with lead.
If you buy a children's toy made in America 90 times out of 100 it'll be top quality, 10 times out of 100 it'll be total garbage.
Point being that not all products from Asia are bad, not even close. But there is more of a risk that they may be.
And if I knew you personally I'm sure there is a joke about your phone, your wife, beef noodle soup, and all the other things you mentioned. I have a f'd up sense of humor...but since I don't know you no jokes will be made :-)
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07-10-2017, 10:43 AM
#242
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I'm no expert welder, but the penetration around the flanges looks shallow to me. Looks like the weld is just laying on the surface with virtually no penetration into the metal itself. But what do I know, it's only a snapshot of one bit of the headers. You can't see the underside etc.
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SuperFastYo (07-10-2017)
07-10-2017, 10:59 AM
#243
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm no expert welder, but the penetration around the flanges looks shallow to me. Looks like the weld is just laying on the surface with virtually no penetration into the metal itself. But what do I know, it's only a snapshot of one bit of the headers. You can't see the underside etc.
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SuperFastYo (07-10-2017)
07-10-2017, 12:13 PM
#244
Super Member
I have a little welding experience and the best way to tell if you got penetration is to look on the inside of the tube you should be able to see a clean complete ring on the inside of the tube.. even if its sanded you should see evidence of it there.
07-10-2017, 01:47 PM
#245
Member
If I were you I would install it catless and not make cuts at the new headers/midpipe and keep the resonator at first. If you don't like it, then I would say install the cats. It's decently quiet when you drive but loud at WOT with resonator.
07-10-2017, 01:58 PM
#246
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm going to have the shop make it that I can remove them easily so I can full catless after sticker
08-01-2017, 10:08 AM
#247
Super Member
About to order these, if everything goes smooth. Did anyone install these recently? Kriston from here told me that these headers will not fit to our cars right away, and some welding needs to be done to create a collector?
Any posters here have any reviews for this?
Edit: Should be no fitment issues, but ships with straight pipes, as reported by skratch77
Any posters here have any reviews for this?
Edit: Should be no fitment issues, but ships with straight pipes, as reported by skratch77
Last edited by NotABaller; 08-01-2017 at 11:02 AM.
08-01-2017, 10:18 AM
#248
MBWorld Fanatic!
When did i tell you that these will not fit? 
08-01-2017, 10:49 AM
#249
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm having them installed soon but doing ceramic coating first and I'm getting married the 27th so I have like a million things going on.
I literally snuck out last week just to hit the track up lol
Trying to hide getting them also(could of spent 2k more on flowers)
I literally snuck out last week just to hit the track up lol
Trying to hide getting them also(could of spent 2k more on flowers)
08-01-2017, 10:55 AM
#250
Super Member
Sorry, I may be mistaken. I had a convo with someone who messaged me off a facebook group. Told me there was "no midpipes from merge collectors". This just means it doesnt include any piping to connect to secondary cats, and wont ship with an X or H pipe, correct?
