m a x i m u s

Alright guys, I searched and didn't find. Also, I've been here for over a decade so I think I can ask a dumb question one time! Do PFL's have the limp mode problem also, or is it just FL's? I'm doing a track day next month so was wondering if I needed to prep my car (and ego). Thanks.

CarHopper

Yes, both PFL and FL's are vulnerable to going into limp mode on track days.

It's January... Where are you? Temp will obviously play a role here, but also how hard you push the car / experience behind the wheel will play a role too.

Going into limp mode has kind of been a hit or miss thing for people and if I were you I would just set my cluster so I could monitor temps and have at it. If it gets hot, let it cool off. If you find yourself wanting to track the car more and more, or you do go into limp mode but would like to continue to track in the future, I would recommend doing the cooling upgrade. If this is kind of a one time go have some fun thing I wouldn't worry too much and just go have fun.

But again, both PFL/FL are prone to the issue. Doesn't mean you're guaranteed to have a problem though.

austintipton

If the track has high enough speeds and the temperature is high enough and the session is long enough, you'll hit limp mode. For sure.

Without knowing all the variables, you are probably just fine in the winter. I've found it takes a little longer to hit limp mode if you short shift. Given the car has more engine than chassis, this won't hurt your pace much at all.

m a x i m u s

Thanks, guys. I'm in Southern California and this would be at the Auto Club speedway using part of the oval, so high speeds for sure. I'm not a huge fan of tracking street cars but I wanted to go and stretch my car's legs a bit.

Diabolis

Both PFL and FL cars can overheat the oil and go into limp mode, but during track driving the FL cars are 10x more likely to get to that stage because of the MCT. The "oil temp killer" is some rather smart programming in the MCT cars' ESP system - when you're a little too aggressive with the throttle coming out of a corner, the ESP in the FL cars will slip the MCT clutches by some small perecentage (as opposed to simply cutting off / limiting the amount of fuel) in order not to ruin your line through said corner. Said clutch slippage unfortunately produces heat, and the oil on the MCT cars overheats.

The MCT slippage mechanism is imperceptible in its operation - you can't feel it when it's working, you don't get the flashing ESP warning light and you can't defeat this particular feature.

In other words, MB added a "feature" to the FL cars that generates additional heat without increasing the cooling capacity of the system, hence the FL cars are much more likely to overheat the oil. So - yes, both PFLs and FLs can, but the FLs are much better at it.

If you're using a part of an oval, I suspect that you're going to have sufficient airflow to keep the oil temperatures on a PFL car well in the normal range and that it won't go into limp mode. It's not high vehicle speeds - it's high engine revs that heat up the oil. High vehicle speeds actually help with the cooling as you have much more air removing heat from the oil coolers. The oval portion of the track will help remove heat, not add to it. And, austintipton is right... if you shift at 5K RPM instead of 6, it won't affect your pace much but it will help with potential oil overheating issues as the chassis is by far the bigger limiting factor.

C SEXY 3

I've limp moded my 2010 in the canyons on a hot day. Yes I was pushing the **** out of it on a road I know like my *****. 440 cooling package is what you want!

C SEXY 3

When are you going?

Would love to come spectate, know the track pretty well from track days on the bike. Haven't gotten my 63 out there yet but soon. Planning a Buttonwillow day for the AMG SoCal Lounge group.

Diabolis

AFAIK the 44O package is only for the 2012+ FL cars.

chrisridebike8

That's what MB told us, but how much have things really changed up front? I plan to try and put it on my Pre-FL. Dads was able to get the BS coolers to fit on his, and the 440 package is essentially that with some aupporting ducting.

Diabolis

Well, I have the kit installed on mine (2013 coupe) and spent a fair bit of time at the shop during the installation. For startes, the front bumper is different between the pre-FL and FL cars... the pre-FL fog lights are directly in the way of the aux oil cooler on mine. Am not sure if there are other changes under the bumper between the PFL and FL cars, but even if there are none, chances are that it would involve some fabrication (for/to the supporting ducting) to get it to fit properly.

minchu0647

I was told by dealer that the 440 pkg is not available and no ETA...
Anyone knows?

Diabolis

I've read the same in several other posts but have no first-hand information. There was a new (never installed) complete 44O kit for sale here recently by a member.

SaphGreyC63

Have fun with that! I've done it before wish I could go out this time.

gmaschine

VÄTH makes transmission and oil cooler kits for the PFL if you plan on hard tracking.

http://www.vaeth.com/images/Vaeth/PD...L_ENG_W204.pdf

Thrilla

I ordered mine from Oediscountparts.com in July and didn't get it until November. It doesn't sound like it's something dealers stock regularly.
I do remember someone selling it along with the rear diff fins from Canada.

Diabolis

Dealers never stocked it... AFAIK all of them were special order items from Affalterbach (at least the ones in Canada).

This is the link to the one for sale, although the thread is now closed... don't know if it sold: https://mbworld.org/forums/engine-pe...63-canada.html

minchu0647

Omg that is how long u waited for urs?!
I also contacted oediscountparts. Tracy said she will try to escalate the order but i am doubting it will be any faster...

Thrilla

I still have to wait to have it installed since the car is stored for the winter. More waiting. 😭

chrisridebike8

Winter is when you are supposed to mod the car! You can't drive it. Might as well have it worked on.

need2speed

Yeah, I still have the 44O cooling package FS but rear diff cover is gone. On holidays so I took down the listing. PM if interested.

msgadget

No doubt about it!!

minchu0647

I was told that my cooling package had arrived from Germany and is ready to ship to me.... QwQ...It only took a little more than a week?! what?! Now I am so excited for my track day in March!!
Thank you Tracy!!

julours

That looks interesting, did you use these coolers and have feedback? Interested to get photos

MrkiC63

Best oil cooler for C63 is this here .... 440 package is not the best for me.
1 liter more volume and a lot bigger.

zcct04

Very impressive! Details, please!!