Sway Bar End Link Recommendations? Agency Power or ?
 

Hello all - have a '14 C63 sedan lowered on BC Racing Coilovers and have a clunking sound that is almost certainly due to the worn sway bar end links currently on the car.

I've been researching aftermarket solutions and aside from Agency Power I have not been able to find any other recommendations. I have also read on this forum that the AP units squeak and rattle and many have not had good experiences with them.

Do people on coilovers just continuously replace these every 20k miles with OEM comparable units such as the Mahle aftermarket links? Or Moog? Or does anybody besides Agency Power actually make a decent setup? Thanks for your time!

I don't think there are any other decent options unfortunately. Since I refuse to give AP any money ever, I was also researching this. I found a few on eBay but they looked dodgy.

Man that is disappointing to hear. :-(

I saw like 5 years ago a place called RPM did a batch of there own here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...end-links.html

But they haven't been around in a long time. Hopefully somebody has a solution!?

I was looking for adjustable end links again, and thought that if we knew the measurement that basically any universal heavy-duty unit should work. Right? It's not that difficult a part - just an aluminum rod with adjustable ends - so if you get the length right everything should be fine.

Some conflicting info on length (340mm or 260mm from the above linked thread), and I'm not near my car to measure myself, but you can find various lengths at a number of manufacturer websites - just need to make sure the length and adjustability range are ok, and the rod ends are quality bearings:
https://amrengineering.com/product/a...ybar-endlinks/
https://store.034motorsport.com/sway...-a5-s5-q5.html

Or even get any unit, and then replace the rod ends with something quality like from Aurora: http://www.aurorabearing.com/index.html

I've got the ones that came on my coilovers from Fortune Auto. Maybe give them a call and see if they're willing to sell you a pair. Super nice guys so I'd be hard pressed if they say no.

Thx guys for the recommendations. I did in fact pick up a set of the Agency Power end links and will be installing asap. I will report back with findings and if in fact they squeak and/or have the issues I have heard of in the past I would honestly consider making my own...

I have the Agency Power links as well that I will be trying this spring/summer.

Thanks BLKROCT for the rod end link. If need be I will upgrade the rod ends.

Yeah that's what I'm doing too Mort. Just buy any unit and then replace their problematic rod ends with something quality from either Aurora or QA1 (https://www.qa1.net/rod-ends-and-related/rod-ends).

I wonder if I can find a machined aluminum hexagon rod threaded on both sides though? There's got to be something out there cheaper than buying something just for the rods and tossing the rest of it. I'll do almost anything to not give those AP guys a cent...

Sometimes it is best to just take the path of least resistance. It would be nice to find a viable option.

Don't forget about mcmaster-carr as well.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#end-links/=16ht6sd

Thanks for the link Jasonoff, add it to the list.

I bet these could be made for about half the cost of the AP unit, with absolute top-end components. Top-tier rod ends are about $15ea. Nuts bolts and rods another $20.

Does anybody with the AP or other adjustable end links know the length of their Front and Rear rods? Or even the length of the OE ones handy?

Universal Tie Rod Adjuster Sleeves are a thing

http://www.jegs.com/i/Proforged/469/...FUZLDQodE2EK-g

http://www.jegs.com/i/UMI+Performanc...FZmCswodyMkCrQ

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...ed4978a2f826b7

http://www.powerhouseperformance.ca/...roducts_id=266

http://www.ridetech.com/store/1955-1...ters-pair.html


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...8d3a4834da.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...d7d662c2be.jpg

Getting closer....

9" Joe's Aluminum Hex Tube
This looks like the winner, it's inexpensive, strong, and comes in a lot of lengths.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JOES-Racing-Pr...11159/10002/-1

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...a66edd517e.jpg


These are 1-1/8" OD and made with 6061-T6 aluminum - the same size and material I've seen used on commercial products for end links, control arms, camber/toe arms, etc. I could make a whole bunch of these in different lengths to start replacing all sorts of things under there....
[EDIT: Just learned that you should make all control arms out of chromoly, rod ends can also be improved. But the OE control arms look pretty overengineered to me already - maybe just a bushing/bearing replacement? I'm guessing this is another reason why KMAC is more popular than new adjustable arms too. Hmm.)

Anyway, slap on some nice rod ends and VOILA, super high quality sway bar end links that hopefully won't squeak and bind like the AP ones are known to do. Hopefully.

Oh yeah, and it should come out to less than $50 each. Like I said, half the price of the least-expensive retail options out there, PLUS made with much higher-quality components.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...928daa4a1d.jpg



Summit also has a million choices for aluminum suspension tubing here too: https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ibanner=SREPD4
More here: http://pitstopusa.com/c-132185-chass...ion-tubes.html

DIY Guides (apparently this is more common than I realized):
http://www.mwrench.com/Whitepapers/swaybarlinks.pdf - this is the best one
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1761090
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-Sway-Endlinks
https://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...-Bar-End-links

This guy made adjustable rear control arms for his Benz using the same method: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201...mber-arms.html

I'm totally doing this. Add another project to the bonfire.

WOW thank you so much for the research on this BLKROKT! At this point I'm down to replace the rod ends with Aurora or QA1 for sure before I even install the AP ones. Let me know which ones you decide to order? Also I can provide the measurements on the AP ones as I have a set sitting next to me currently. I'll post with the measurements and a pic here shortly!

That would be really useful thanks! :y

The measurements that matter are (all with rod ends fully screwed in):
- length of hex aluminum tube F/R
- total length with rod ends F/R
- length from center-to-center of rod ends F/R (optional)
- rod end measurements A B C D from the below diagram (optional)

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...4af6bdf0a.jpeg


Both Aurora and QA1 seem to be great quality and used interchangeably. Also should probably look at rubber rod end boots to keep them clean like these from RERS: http://sealsit.com/product/rers36pk-rod-end-boot/

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c66d51718f.jpg



I'm probably leaning towards the QA1 XM Enduro Series Chromoly spherical end links here:
https://www.qa1.net/rod-ends-and-rel...chromoly-steel
XML12 and XMR12 have the right thread for the Joe's Hex Tube - $28ea


I'll order the parts as soon as we have good measurements. Thanks again.
4 - XML12 QA1 XM Series Rod Ends @ $28ea = $112
4 - XMR12 QA1 XM Series Rod Ends @ $28ea = $112
4 - SG124 QA1 1/4" Stainless Spacers @ $5ea = $20
4 - SG1212 QA1 3/4" Stainless Spacers @ $5ea = $20
4 - Joe's Racing #11159 9" 3/4-16 Thread Aluminum Hex Tube (estimate length) @ $14ea = $56
8 - JNL12S 3/4-16 QA1 Steel Jam Nuts @ $1ea = $8
8 - Rod End Boots @ $4ea = $32
TOTAL = $360 for full 4pc F/R set

Not bad I think we finally have a better alternative :D

(and not a bad business to be in either when you consider that the 'scumbag-shop-that-shall-not-be-named' ones probably cost 1/2 that in lower-quality parts plus 5min of screwing together to make.... I'd like to be making well over 100% margins in my business too except in my world that would be called fraud.... :rolleyes:)

The AP rods for the front are 8 3/4" long. I guess friscomgm is coming with the measurements. :y

Excellent. Sounds like 8" rods for the front then, thanks. :y

You know. You could just measure the OEM endlinks and do the math.

I can draw a picture if it will help... :stick:

I haven't gotten home yet and besides why crawl under there later if I don't have to :smash:

Unfortunately I only have a front set currently:

Bar length with no rod ends: 8.75in - 222.25mm
Bar length with rod ends: 12.9in - 324.66mm
Length from center-to-center of rod ends: 11.5in - 292.1mm
Rod end measurements
A - 2.5 in - 63.5mm
B - Not quite sure how to measure this?
C - 1 5/16in 33.34mm
D - 1 7/8 in - 47.63mm

So what you're saying is. You just want to ask a stupid fkn question on a car forum and have the "smart" members give you the answer? :nix:

http://bensbargains.com/thecheckout/...13/06/Burn.jpg

How ironic you posted just before me. You should fudge the numbers just to be a dick. :rolf:

GTFOH

That's excellent thanks!

I'm going to crawl under the car and take more measurements since Jasonjerkoff feels like shaming me into it today. The rod end threads each have about 1.5" of usable thread, so the 8" rod should be fine for the front. 9" is probably too long.

I don't know how I didn't see that meme coming. Hahaha

Ordered :D

Measured up the rear end link as best as I could with the wheels on and car on the ground. It was somewhere almost 8" as best as I could determine, so I got the 7" rod. The ends have more than enough adjust-ability that it doesn't matter much if I'm off.

Total came out to a bit more than expected at $392 (the little offset spacers were the killer), but still less than the retail options out there, and I got the absolute best rod and rod ends available. I'm sure you could get them down to $300 for the set if you tried, and you wouldn't really sacrifice much.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...3ba0e908f6.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...9c7af5b314.jpg

Forgot the boots. Found them at Midwest Control Products. Not necessary, but I wanted them. 8 came out to $52. Total now up to $444, but I'm still just under retail (AP end links are $450 for the set plus shipping tax etc) and I feel pretty confident that I have a much better product.

If I ordered these things in bulk, and maybe used a more reasonably-priced rod end, we could probably get the full kit down to under $400 for the F/R set. Minus the boots maybe under $350. Just sayin...

https://www.midwestcontrol.com/part.php?id=11622

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...2a1e747560.jpg

Awesome - so you ordered everything from QA1 and the boots and Midwest Control correct? I'll order a set as well.

It would be nice to do an order in bulk to get the price down. Not sure how many would be interested in this setup though? I feel like almost anyone who has coilovers or is lowered would benefit..

Ordered the rod end hardware from QA1, the Joes Hex Tube from Jegs, and the boots from Midwest.

Got it. Thx again for your help on this!

Parts started coming in today. Beefy!

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ceb1be5b10.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6db25d03df.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...fa2e849d2d.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0be5d56e32.jpg

might be a dumb question as I read thru the thread a few times but.... whats the difference in the rod end part #'s? By the way awsome job with the research!:y

XML10-12 - Left hand thread
XMR10-12 - Right hand thread

Allows you to turn the connector tube to make the end link shorter or longer without undoing any of the fittings.

Gotcha! Thanx Mort!

Rods came in today

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5c11bb33f2.jpg

You may have noticed that one of the 7" rods is lighter in color than the others. All of the rods are solid billet aluminum throughout, with threads at the ends, except for the light colored one which is hollow. I'm going to have to return that - same part number, but clearly an older stock.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...33860063e1.jpg

BOOM. End links.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1458b5e4d5.jpg

Nice one Blkrokt. Those look like solid end links.
Post some pictures once you have them on the car and let us know if you can feel a difference.
You guys in the States are lucky to have such easy access to car parts.

Sub'd

This is an awesome thread, thanks for all the detail. Will definitely be copying this set-up when I get myself some coilovers.

Great job guys! Thanx for posting. Just finalizing shipping details with Golan on a set of club sports. This could not have come at a better time. After a recent discrepancy with AP and poor customer service, I would prefer not to deal with them. Ordered all the parts thru Jegs cause QA1 does not ship retail to Canada. Great customer service on both ends. All said and done after tax/shipping and customs fees total price is a touch higher than AP but I'm sure so is the quality. Also purchased the K-mac stage 3 race kit with all the bells and whistles! Received a really good MB world discount and good service. Thanx again great post!

Nice going BLKROKT, these are best option for aftermarket end links.

Thanks guys, hope it helps.

FYI, in case this matters to any of you:
QA1 = China
Rod End Supply = China
FK = American
Aurora = American

I might try Aurora or FK rod ends with the next batch, or for any other control arms I make. Might also look at stainless options depending on how the chromoly ends hold up.

Thx again for posting BLKROKT - will be looking forward to your feedback with them on the car!

Nice.. I was going to ask this guy http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/ if he would entertain making various components. I run his stuff on the wife's cobra and it is high quality.

But looks like you have found a nice places to source the DIY guys

What is the black cover over the ball joint? I've been running shorter AP's up front for over two years. Their original kit was way too long and needed something shorter according to a suspension guy who did my car. The APs did not have the cover I see on yours...dust cover? I always had to lube mine, they would creak and cream like crazy.

Here

Got all my parts in today from Jegs today. For the hex rods, I got the exact opposite. All hollow tubes except for 1 - 7'' tube was solid. Called Jegs to see what deal was. They ended up giving me the joes racing sales rep number. I'll give em a call in the morning to see what the deal is.

I'll trade you for the solid one if you want my hollow one? I don't think it makes any difference, I was just going to use it.

Yeah man I'm down. Was thinking hollow or shallow they are super beefy and should be more then strong enough. Pm me your details and I'll get it off to you today before I leave overseas.

PM incoming. I'll get yours in the mail tomorrow. Good stuff!

Hey Friscomgm,

Do you know the bolt length/size the came with the AP sway bar end links?:nix:

I measured 0.462'' +/- (so prob. 1/2'') on the threads for the factory sway bar end links.

Was thinking of keeping the rod ends as is and ordering different hi misalignment spacers (x16) to fit 1/2'' bolts on all 4 end links.

Tech staff recommended: QA1 high mis alignment spacer part #SG 10-84
This brings the ID of the rod end from 0.625 to ~0.50''

this should give the end links a nice snug fit when fitting to sway bar and shocks!:y

For what it's worth, I ordered the following from BoltDepot.com (I didn't know the exact length, so I doubled up on the bolts). The swaybar and strut holes might have to be enlarged just a bit but I'm ok with that.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5fa14ef08.jpeg

Also get what you're saying on the spacer JD. I admit I just kinda eyeballed everything because I'm dumb. Even the 7" rods I'm not so sure about, so I have an extra set of the 8" ones (I don't want to be stuck with my car on jackstands because I was stupid and ordered the wrong length of anything). I looked at the narrow width of the high misalignment spacers I have, and with the correct bolt sizes (5/8") it shouldn't be a problem as the ID will be tight throughout, end to end The last thing you want is for the bolt to be smaller width than the rod end hole. Even with the correct size spacers, you run the risk of the whole thing getting misaligned I think. I'm not an expert on this though, so if QA1 thinks it's ok then it should be.

I was considering the standard width SG12-108

Thanks for the Bolt repo hook up as that is my next search:y

The 8'' front bar by my measurements should be right on the money

The 7'' rear bar should be good but by the looks of it, width clearance will be tight. Time will tell. I'll prob. do the same as you and order a variety of spacers and spare parts with hopes that I can return what I don't use. (i'll have to confirm their return policy tho)

fcking up is all part of proto typing / DIY process to see what works the best. Even if everything fits the way it should i'm sure like me, you'll still end up making minor changes to make it perfect! (might end up costing a bit more $$$ but its all in good fun lol)

With regards to the spacers...My understanding is that with the hi misalignment spacers, they are inserted into the rod end hole and sit against the first tapered edge. there by reducing the thru bore size on both ends(giving it a snug fit) if 2 spacers are used on either side. i.e., down from .625 to .500. If you wanna keep original size (.625)..agreed would defiantly have to enlarge the sway bar/strut holes a bit. I'm just not to keen on doing that to my new club sports:naughty:

Funny, we're doing the same thing. My Clubsports and KMacs both shipped to me today. :D

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the high misalignment spacers (from now on 'HMS' so I don't have to keep typing it out) in this application then. I thought, by looking at different end link configurations, that the longer tapered HMS was used on the bar/strut side of the rod end to properly space it away for clearance purposes as the regular spacers didn't seem to be long enough to give you the right angle to prevent binding. But, like I said, I know very little about this from a practical standpoint, I'm just reading a lot and copying how I see them built (and they all seem to have a 'normal' spacer on the bolt side, with a HMS on the other, and a flanged nut to hold it all together).

Lol that's funny just got my tracking number for my K-mac kit today. Golan is gonna hold on to the club sports for me and ship em when I'm back home from work. :wootrock:

I'm in the same boat man. I'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed. At first I thought the same as you about the HMS but when I contacted the tech. Reps at Jegs and QA1 they both said about the same thing about them sliding in to the taper. You Can buy different lengths HMS to account for proper spacing. But if you wanted to keep the same ID as the rod end, then their normal spacers (ss) would do the trick. I don't think I should rely on their advise 100% but I think is a good starting point until I actually start playing around with the car on the lift and see for my self what works the best. :nix:

As far as binding goes...with 13-14 degrees of forgiveness, the rod end should allow enough clearance when turning to lock on either side. Once installed, I'll just have to check for scoring after working it side to side a few times. Don't quote me but I think by properly adding the HMS it would in fact slightly increase the angle.

Here's a quick pic for reference.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=high+...4YTkhlxtI_g6M:

I get it now, thanks for the pics. :y

Time to order new spacers and bolts. Sigh.

Here is a pic of the AP link for reference. It has a HMS on either side of the rod end.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ddd9034fa7.jpg
C63 - AP Sway Bar End Link

Thanks Mort, that's awesome. Big help. Do you happen to know the length of the socket bolts, and if they're 1/2"?

BLKROKT the bolts are 2 3/8" shaft length and 0.467" diameter on the shoulder per my calipers. That is 15/32" diameter and I think it might actually be a M12 1.75 metric bolt. The HMS do seem to be exactly 0.500" ID so there is about 0.30" clearance between the bolts and HMS. On the AP HMS a 1/2" bolt will be a snug fit as I tried a 1/2" bolt. On the outer end of the HMS there is a bit of a ridge that you might have to relieve with a file or drill bit, if your HMS are similar, so the bolt will slide through without forcing it. Check that the bolts will fit through the sway bar ends and strut as well as a 1/2" bolt is too big to fit the sway bar or KWV3 on my car.

Excellent Mort thanks. So something like this 1/2"-13 x 2.5" socket cap bolt should work perfectly (no need to enlarge existing bolt holes), as long as I get the right HMS.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-De...x?product=5069

Looking at the correct HMS spacer now. You and JD have been a big help figuring this out, thanks again.

EDIT: I wonder if the bolt is smaller diameter than the rod end to more easily allow rotation? I'm not 100% sure that the bearing in the rod ends rotate in that direction (although I assume so since you're bolting it through to keep it firmly secured)?

I have a feeling the bolts are a slightly smaller diameter to fit the car while the rod ends and HMS are stock USA sizes for cost and ease of sourcing them. Once the bolts are tightened the bearing will be pinned in place and the rod end will rotate around it in both axis.

^ Hence the "clunking" sound that many get after installing these? Maybe?

I'm going to go for the 1/2" bolt, the theory being that a tight fit will not "clunk", versus one with 0.033" clearance to HMS which might....

You could well be right on the clunking. That or the bearing wearing the rod end and the clunking coming from there. Time will tell. At least you are removing one potential source of clunking.

Lots of packages delivered this week - KW Clubsports and full KMAC bushings. Also the right sized end link bolts and QA1 high misalignment spacers came in. Thanks for the hollow 7" rod JD, just got it today. :y

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...9034beb18e.jpg


You can really see the difference versus the non-adjustable units that came with the KWs for the front swaybar. The only questionable thing now, is that on its shortest setting, the DIY 7" end link is the exact length of the unit KW sent for the front. This means that I should probably have used 1" shorter rod in front at least. I won't know until I try to fit, but I'm thinking that 6" front and 7" back is about right for the Joes aluminum rod length. I didn't take into account how much beefier the QA1 rod ends were, and that makes a difference in total bolt-to-bolt length and adjustment. Just something to keep in mind. I might order an extra pair of 6" rods just in case I run into issues on the install.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...64eb693fda.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6b0fc9a907.jpg

FYI the QA1 HMS do not have the ridge that you have on yours. Really impressed with the quality and precision of all the QA1 parts. The 1/2" bolts from BoltDepot were a perfect fit. Everything is perfect in the rod end. Just have to make sure that a) the rod lengths give me the adjustment that I'll need, b) that they will fit without rubbing anything, and c) might have to enlarge the bolt holes slightly on the struts and swaybars to accommodate the 1/2" bolts. All are unknowns at the moment. But at least they look serious.

Looking at the photos you posted earlier, there is plenty of thread on the rod end bearing. So you should be able to go down to a 6" rod no problem.

Hey Jim,

Glad to hear you got ur joe's bar in safe and sound. The set up looks ALL business lol!:y
Glad to see the HMS are all sorted. Looks like at this point it's just some fine tuning with bar sizes to see what's best. I'm Stuck overseas at the moment at work. But excited to get home and get back after it. Good luck!:zoom:

In before this thread disappears!


Better save all this information locally before this thread disappears, its got all the part numbers and cost better than a vendor for a beefy customizable part!


-Patel

Lol PDF version saved locally just in case - thanks for all the research here BLKROKT. Amazingly detailed as usual.

Yeah it looks BEEFY. Really massive actually, especially compared to the OE/KW ones. Probably overkill, but I like overkill. If they fit without rubbing, should give great adjustability.

Thanks again for the solid rod and the tip on how HMS are actually supposed to work. The rod boots are awesome little things, and seal up nicely around the HMS too. Should I be filling them with grease before installing?

Between these, the full KMAC kit and the KW's, I'm going to have more adjustability than I know what to do with. That part's a little overwhelming too. Anyone have a really good source/read on how to use all of this in different track situations/conditions? I have a pyrometer.... but I'm thinking that I'll need to acquire more uh measuring instruments, especially for the alignment specs for on-the-fly changes. Wobble64 had me looking at this thing for awhile, looks interesting and like something I probably need now: http://www.smartracingproducts.com/smartstrings.html

I like the look of the Smart String setup as well. It is too expensive in Canadian now so I am still using jack stands and strings. The nice thing about the Smart Strings, but still not perfect, is the ability to leave them set up on the car while you jack it up to do changes and then set it down and roll it around to settle the suspension and still able to take readings without having to set up the strings all over again. Check your car to be sure there are places to set up the bars in the trunk and engine bay that will be easy to set up and secure while you move the car around.

Here is the Tenhulzen option but it does not have the flexibility or strength of the Smart Strings IMO. https://www.tenhulzenautomotive.com/

AP Rod Ends Shortened to fit.
 

I had to mod my AP end links or buy shorter rods. I decided to shorten the rods I had. Because the rods where not drilled all the way through or threaded deep enough I had to shorten the threaded section of the rod ends as well. I am hoping they will stand up in use but consider them marginal with just 1/2 -5/8" threaded into the rods.

The AP end links come with 5/8" 18 threaded rod ends. Slightly smaller than the 3/4" rod ends used by BLKROKT. The rods are 8.75" long and after a quick measure to install I figured I needed to shorten them 1.125". The rods now measure 7.625". I also had to cut .625" off the threaded portion of each rod end to compensate for the reduced thread depth in the rods.

To install rod ends you need to have the suspension at normal ride height. That means driving the car onto a drive on hoist or driving onto ramps to keep the suspension as close to normal ride height as possible. I bought some Race Ramps that are 3" high to do this and room is marginal under the car at best, but still doable. Undo both end links at the sway bar or leave them undone and only fastened at the strut to begin with. The sway bar is bonded to the rubber bushings so it will just stay in its neutral position and you don't want it compressing the rubber in the mounts at this stage. Adjust the end links so they just mount into the sway bar with no deflection on either side of the car and tighten the bolts securely. The installed length of the end links on my car came out to 10.75" centre to centre.

A couple of pics of the end links before and after shortening them.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...4f8eeda353.jpg
AP Rod Ends stock length.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f7b02e72a6.jpg
AP Rod Ends shortened 1.125"

Great info on the install Mort, thanks.

I just measured my assembled end links, and at their absolute shortest length, the 7" rod center-to-center measurement is 10.25" with the 8" at 11.25". You measured the fronts, correct?

I am thinking that the 6" rods in the mail will be perfect for the front (as the 1/2" left in length adjustment on the 7" rod end links might not be enough - I could be wrong here?), and that the rears are longer so the 7" rods should work there. Wasted 8" rods, maybe I can return them.

I've actually wondered myself about the boots. I was thinking maybe a little CV axle grease injection wouldn't hurt:nix: I'll do some digging around and see what's what.

The Boots are definitely one of the key highlights of this design!

Additionally Was thinking about Using a set Nord lock washers to help flange this beast together. these lock washers are used quite a bit in my line of work. Link below..(check out the junker video)simple but very effective & apparently the best...I'm gonna shoot an e-mail out to one of our vendors and ask for a hand out to see if I can get my hands on about 20 of these things. I'll shoot a set out ur way if you interested..

http://www.nord-lock.com

Those NordLock things look pretty cool JD. The nuts I bought for this are already flanged with a serrated edge, and although not as good, will likely work just fine with a bit of blue Loctite. I took all of the other washers off that I was considering using, because they could impinge the rod end movement/angle. Thanks for the offer, I think they look great, and let me know how they work out.

Yes, it is the front I measured in the post above. I think the 7" rods will fit the front for you and the 6" will fit the rear. More on the rear in another post but my rear links measured 8.5" centre to centre after I installed them.

Modified MB Rear Sway Bar End Links
 

Instead of trying to piece together rods and rod ends for the rear I decided to modify the stock end links from the car.

I measured the connecting rod on the stock link at .395 to .400". They make long nuts to join threaded rod together and the nuts are 1.75" long and available in .375 -16 thread pitch. For materials I bought a .375 - 16 die, (4) 3/8 nuts and (2) 3/8 threaded rod connectors. Total cost 16.68 Cdn.

1.) A quick measure with the suspension at normal ride height told me I needed to shorten the end links ~ 1".

2.) I turned the rod down to .365 to .370" diameter using a belt sander.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c26469453d.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b7479b6af5.jpg



3.) I cut 1" out of the centre of the end link with a metal cut off disc in a high speed angle grinder.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...ba7e0dcfbe.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...83dae2e433.jpghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...146281124c.jpg

4.) I threaded the ends of the rods with the die I bought in a tool handle I had from a metric tap & die set.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f06ba87fcd.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...c8dc8c6796.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...e356b44fae.jpg

5.) The finished product.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...f88f7bda35.jpg

6.) The install is similar to the front with the car at normal ride height I drove it onto 3" Race Ramps giving me just enough room to get the top link in place. I fastened the end links in the lower control arm and left the top ends unattached so the sway bar was in its unstressed orientation, no end links connected and held in it's neutral setting by the bonded rubber mounts. I got lucky and the shortened end links where exactly the correct length and the bolts fed easily into the sway bar. I put the nuts on them to hold them in place and jacked the car up, removed the wheels and tightened everything down. The measured length of the installed end links on my car is 8.5" centre to centre.

I don't drink so I had another coffee to celebrate....LOL

That's awesome Mort! I love how this thread has turned out. More info on where you got that cool die please?

Just thinking - the 7" Joes rod comes out to a minimum 10.25" endlink when fully assembled with the big rod ends, so that's good for the front. By my calculations, this means that I would need to now get 5" Joes rod for the rears, because assembled that will come out to 8.25" minimum.

I'm going to have quite the collection of spare rods when I'm done with this.

Holy smokes Mort that is forward thinking! Well done!

How is this very helpful and informative thread not closed yet? :nix:

No worries. The nord locks are prob. overkill but I'm having fun with it!:y Anyway below is email response from QA1 about the grease addition:

"Hi JD,
Our XM series is a self-lubricating rod end that we don’t recommend adding anything further. If you did decide to add a lubricant we would want to see a dry lubricant used as to not attract dirt, even with the added dust boots."

Nicely done mort!

Hey thanks guys.

BLKROKT here is a pic of the die and the tool. You should be able to source them at any auto supply place. I got this one at a NAPA outlet for 9.49 Cdn + tax. The tool is part of a Blue Point (Snap On) metric tap set.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...70d31f53ea.jpg

Hey Jim. Did you get your car back from the shop yet? How did end links work out for you?

Not yet. I got a better look at everything while the car was up on the lift. The rear endlinks are much shorter than I thought, and the 5" rods are going to end up being the ones that work with these QA1 rod ends. Clearance might be an issue, not sure yet.

On a somewhat related note, the car balance from the factory is pretty good. My car weighed 3909lbs with just under a half tank of gas. Balance was dead on 50/50 left to right, and 53/47 F/R.

Right on! Good to hear the car is balanced as Welles it is. I'll be ur excited to get a feel for the k-mac / club sport set up.

Yeah I was thinking after seeing morts post that 5'' bar would prob. Be the go. Due to the tight clearance I have been recently contemplating maybe going with 5/8'' - 18 threaded tubes and rod ends for the rear to reduce the OD of the endlinks. A company called DRP performance have series of tubes they call scalloped tubes that are strong and have a nice slim profile. They are more pricier than joes tubes but with the tight clearance in the back I'll prob. Order a set when I get back.

Quick update. The endlinks fit fine with no rubbing. Rear swaybar holes had to be drilled out to accommodate the larger bolts as expected. Balancing tomorrow. L/R will be easy, but not much you can do on the F/R without jacking up the front and lowering the rear an unreasonable amount. Time to lose some weight.

Car is done. Endlinks fit great and are super beefy compared to the OE units. Adjustability was somewhat of a non-issue since the balance was so good from the factory. Shifted 5lbs to the rear, and L/R is spot on 50/50.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...a5c4171271.jpg



Car is just slammed right now with not even a finger gap to the fenders. Have the KWs on their most neutral settings and fairly tame camber until I learn what the car and driver likes. The KMAC bushings came in real handy for fine-tuning the camber and toe, as some of the KW adjustability in front in particular is difficult to do without grinding out the top strut mount.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...2e375c589.jpeg



The car is somewhat harsh now on the street, but I expected that and am ok with it. I can feel so much more of what's going on now, the connectivity to the car and how it communicates everything now is just amazing. Between the KWs, the KMACs and the Rigid Collars..... oh my god does it handle. And predictably too.

Harry and his guys at Bergen Imports did an amazing job as always, and there's nobody I trust more with my car than those guys. Really outstanding attention to every detail.

Ready for The Glen on Mon/Tue. (after I bleed out the old SRF and change to my track pads)

Congrats on your suspension Build man!:cheers:

I can only imagine the track will be the true test but I'm sure you won't be disappointed. Especially with the all the time spent and considerable financial investment required to get ur chassis and suspension to race ready status. Makes me all the more excited to get my kit installed after reading your first impressions!

Have fun at the races:zoom: I'll be looking forward to reading up on how it all turned out:y

Nice Blkrokt. It's going to be awesome on the track.
Do you reckon those rigid collars made a big difference. It looks like a simple mod to do.

Reviving a old thread. How did these endlink turn out?

Anyone getting any clunks?

Hopefully others are interested in this!! Nothing like a set of bespoke endlinks. :)

BUMP. I’ve got another set ready to go if anyone needs.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b903f28c1.jpeg

^ SOLD

Hey. @BLKROKT you have any more of these with you?

Thanks!

No. Done making them, just too much hassle and I don’t have the time. I left insanely detailed instructions above. Just follow that.

Has anyone found a solid replacement for the endlinks yet, especially for a lowered c63. The sway bar endlinks I got with my bc coilovers are too long and I don’t have the time to build a custom adjustable setup as detailed by Blkrkt.

they don’t need to be adjustable, just fit correctly without having the “clunk”.

ECS has bunch that fit other models but after calling them, they don’t have exact measurements for me. I guess I could buy, see fitment, then return for another if they don’t fit.

much appreciated!

I was in a similar situation.
I ended up with F1 racing adjustable end links.
They're pretty beefy and no clunks.

They can make whatever length you request.

Can someone please double check these before I order. I have looked through the thread and is this correct below? I have read else where there must be a minimum of 14mm of thread left in the shaft too.

Front

Front 10.25” is 260.35mm (fully closed)

Front installed 10.75” is 273.05mm

Bolt 1/2” is 12.7mm


Rear

Rear 8.25” fully closed is 209.55mm

Rear installed 8.5” is 215.9mm

Bolt 1/2” is 12.7mm

How noisy are these on top of the clubsports?

You can buy adjustable 217mm center to center and adjustable 273mm center to center with plus/minus 9mm adjustment range from Steinjager. Available in m10 and m12 and in 10mm length increments for shorter or longer.

No need to get carried away with heim joint size or drill everything for 1/2 inch bolts, even when doing competitive track events.